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Old 01-02-2015, 02:37 PM   #21
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Thanks for the update, OptimistPrime. Nice progress.

Keep us posted about the Colorado move.
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Old 01-02-2015, 02:54 PM   #22
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No guarantee that having kids will prevent loneliness in old age. The nursing homes are full of elderly people whose kids never visit them.

Surely one can retire at 45 with kids and a family........but it is surely a heckuva lot easier to retire at 45 without kids (being married can help or hurt one's chances of retiring early). Kids are a big drain on one's finances unless they are generating more income than expenses. I know I'd have had a ZERO chance of retiring at 45 if I had kids.

Being childfree and retired at 45 has given total freedom - financial and personal. I come and go as I please and money magically appears in my bank account every month without having to do anything. What a great combination!


Scrabbler. Good points. Not a right or wrong answer so won't try to convince others -- rather, let me share my perspective.

my sisters who are either not married or married but no kids are in their 40's too and were recently discussing old age care as mom enters this phase of life.

Both agreed not having kids means there is certainty that no kids will ever visit them in old age,. Their bigger concern was the growing need in us healthcare to advocate for their medical care when hospitalized.

They debated whether to make a "pact" to look out for each other later in life - they live across country now but perhaps could live next door late in life. That makes a lot of sense - barring kids and perhaps a spouse preceding them .. siblings can look out for each other. Both felt this far better than a healthcare advocate/paid stranger who may not really have their interests in mind.

We then discussed my cost of kids and that while they agree kids are probably expensive, neither had kids of their own so didn't really know for sure.

We discussed that kids actually matured me and motivated me to work and save harder at a younger age than maybe I would have without kids ...the "more mouths to feed" theory... To be sure Both my sibs are industrious.. But admitted the pressure to provide for offspring is a likely motivator increasing the income side to offset the expense side... an interesting point in his I got to where we are financially.

We also discussed co-habitation later on in life with kids as is done in many countries - kids don't generate income when young ... but can and often do help reduce expenses ( elder care, transportation, even housing). Kids do grow up and become independent ... Most often. In the olden agriculture days, they were free farm hands .. Not sure the ROI is as positive today but kids are not forever a cash drain.

PS. The freedom you describe is typically very similar to those with kids once the kids hit about 18 years old ... Usually around one's mid 40s depending when family was started!

Best of all my boys can let our dog out when we are traveling / vacation !

And at 45 I can't wait for grand kids some day as strange as that sounds at my relative young age.

Kids are not for everyone and definitely good for you to retire at 45 and not have to worry about raising or launching kids !! Enjoy the time!! You've earned it !!
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Old 01-07-2015, 09:11 PM   #23
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No amount of money or early retirement would ever replace the joy of raising my children. Can't imagine life without them.


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Old 01-07-2015, 10:21 PM   #24
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No amount of money could ever compensate me for the misery of adding kids to my life, even if I could retain my early retirement. Can't imagine life with them.
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Old 01-08-2015, 07:00 AM   #25
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There will always be a rift between the kids/no kids group. The "no kids" group cannot imagine the meaning and the emotion and the generativity that the "kids" group experience. But the "kids" group experienced a "no kids" life, before kids.

However, this thread is being hijacked by this. Congratulations to the OP for the huge steps you've taken.

I think renting is useful if you think you are going to be there a short while. Otherwise there are benefits and downsides to home ownership. Hard to decide.


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Old 01-08-2015, 07:16 AM   #26
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The downside to no kids and not married could be a very bleak and lonely existence late in life. Especially true for females as life expectancy is longer.
I have lived with the same DGF for 24+ years, no different than a wife, but all finances are separate. It helps. Marriage is obsolete now anyway. No financial arguments, save what you want/can. Get the combined living savings. We are both in the LBYM camp, and saved quite a bit. There will never be a FIRE abort due to a divorce.

You also get tax savings, and one person can be low income for HSA subsidies, EITC and other programs, letting their retirement accounts grow, while the other makes the money. Get married at a late age for SSA survivor benefits, just before you can actually get them.

No kids. When I get older, I can hire someone to come and visit me. Likely the kids will be too busy, and working, or living in another state, to really care to visit too often.

And the strippers people I hire to visit me when I am lonely won't be old folks like my kids would have been...

Kids or no kids, wife or no wife, LBYM is crucial. Max out all savings you can. 401K, HSA, IRA, etc.

Great job to the OP, they are well on their way.
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Old 01-08-2015, 07:45 AM   #27
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You will easily reach your goals.

1) Your saving rate and results are stellar so far

2) You have 5 posts total since you joined 4 years ago, barely 1 post per year. This means you do not waste nearly the amount of time on this forum that most of us do but instead are probably out there making money!

If I could stop my interweb addiction I would be as rich as Gates.
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Old 01-08-2015, 05:22 PM   #28
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And the strippers people I hire to visit me when I am lonely won't be old folks like my kids would have been...
This reminds me of a complaint of fraud that turned out to be unfounded. I worked as a fraud investigator for many years. The agency received a complaint from an elderly man's grown children that prostitutes were visiting his house and they were concerned that the "ladies of the evening" were stealing from him.

As often happens that turned out to be not quite accurate. What he was doing was hiring them to clean the house, and to do so naked. As far as could be determined that was all that was going on so no harm, no crime, no foul.

What they were really concerned about was that he was spending "their" inheritance.

Oh, and congratulations to the OP!
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Old 01-08-2015, 08:43 PM   #29
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Every so often, a poster will make the comment that having no kid, or even a spouse for that matter, enables him/her to retire early. It may be true but why should I care?

It would be like arguing whether seafood is good for you. My children would not eat shrimp or lobster or any seafood. We told them it was good for them, but they just would not. Fine! They missed out, and we saved money as seafood was expensive compared to what they would eat. It's a deal.

Oh, they are adults now and still do not eat shrimp, although my son has learned to eat crab and some types of fish.
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Old 01-08-2015, 10:10 PM   #30
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What are you ranting about NW?

I think having kids adds responsibility to your retirement. You have to make sure they are provided for, at least until they are 18. Even after they leave home there is some desire to secure your retirement such that you never become a burden for them where they have to support you in old age.
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Old 01-08-2015, 10:28 PM   #31
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I was making a joke about having kids or not being a personal choice, and one should not make too big a deal out of it. Same as liking seafood or not.

Regarding the possibility of being a burden to someone in your old age, a person who cannot take care of him/herself will become a burden to the state. So, the responsibility for yourself should be the same, kids or not.

But perhaps I should not have made the earlier post.
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Old 01-08-2015, 10:43 PM   #32
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NW, this is a forum about early retirement, so shouldn't it make sense to have, among the many, many topics discussed here the key life choices some of us made which more easily enable us to achieve FI and ER?


For those members here who already have kids, our choice to be childfree may not interest them very much. But to those "fence-sitters," those who are unsure about having kids (including the OP of this thread, it appears), reading about us childfree people being more easily able to achieve FI and ER would surely interest them. I, one of those childfree people, surely want to let those "fence-sitters" know that making the life choice to be childfree has made me very happy and led to becoming FI and ER.


There is a huge difference between childfree people and seafood-free people, for lack of a better term. I have never eaten seafood in my life just as I have nave never had any desire to have kids. But there is no stigma to being seafood-free, unlike being childfree. Seafood-free people are not treated in an inferior manner by government, the business world, friends, and relatives compared to pro-seafood people. I only wish childfree people would be treated with the same indifference as seafood-free people.


I doubt anyone who is seafood-free can claim that they were able to ER because they were seafood-free, unlike childfree people. Someone who is pro-seafood can easily undo that decision and become seafood-free simply by not buying seafood any more. But a childed person can't become childfree by snapping his finger - he or she is stuck with the financial (and other) consequences of that decision of many, many years. It is an irreversible life choice, so choose carefully.
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Old 01-08-2015, 10:58 PM   #33
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...
There is a huge difference between childfree people and seafood-free people, for lack of a better term. I have never eaten seafood in my life just as I have nave never had any desire to have kids. But there is no stigma to being seafood-free, unlike being childfree. Seafood-free people are not treated in an inferior manner by government, the business world, friends, and relatives compared to pro-seafood people. I only wish childfree people would be treated with the same indifference as seafood-free people...


I use the seafood preference as an analogy, which is perhaps not apt, but it was the thing that came to mind as I think about my children and the hard time we tried to have them eat seafood (because it's good for them!), but they wouldn't. So we gave up and said it didn't matter anyway.



Now, I never knew child-free people suffered with any stigma. It looks like all of our married nieces and nephews are going to be that way, and they are already in their early 40s, so it's too late for them to change their mind. I would not be surprised that my own children will be the same. And we never think of pressuring them to have children if they get married.

But there's another side to the coin too. I am sure people nowadays who think about having kids know about the trouble of daycare, of picking them up after school, etc..., not just the cost. But then, they may find some activities a pleasure and not a chore, such as when I read to my children bedtime stories, or took them on a vacation, taught them to ride a bike, took a dip in the pool with them in the summer heat.

Having a family has its pleasures, and for people who are inclined to do that, why work hard to dissuade them?
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Old 01-08-2015, 11:06 PM   #34
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We are totally hijacking the OP's thread but since he only checks in once every few years we have awhile before he complains.
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Old 01-08-2015, 11:13 PM   #35
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Hey, he's monitoring this thread. But he has not post much, being a lurker by his own admission. So, the OP probably does not care, and most likely does not think about whether to have a family or not.

My daughter is getting married this year, but my 25-year old son is definitely not currently thinking about marriage. Heck he's not even seriously dating, let alone thinking about having kids. He is enjoying his free time and the good income he's making.
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