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Old 07-29-2008, 09:14 PM   #41
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Having been in the rental business for over 15 years in addition to running real web sites and working a full time job I can tell you for me owning the rentals out right has been much better than fully leveraged. I can put you in contact with a few folks that are now in big trouble with their rentals due to OPM ideas in Rich Dad poor Dad. That idea and quiting your day job thinking your blog will cover is most likely a quick path to poor dad.

Buckle down and save its the best way and it worked for me! You will get more real advice and true opinions on this board than any other place I have found. It still amazes me the amount of knowledge represented on this board.
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Old 07-29-2008, 10:54 PM   #42
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Having been in the rental business for over 15 years in addition to running real web sites and working a full time job I can tell you for me owning the rentals out right has been much better than fully leveraged. I can put you in contact with a few folks that are now in big trouble with their rentals due to OPM ideas in Rich Dad poor Dad.
You may be tying up a lot of capital in equity, but he doesn't have the capital to buy the equity. Different sides of the same problem...
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Old 07-29-2008, 11:46 PM   #43
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Kstronggt, you should keep your day job and create passive income in your FREE time. When your passive income EXCEEDS your expenses, then your out of the rat race! Your trying to get out of the rat race before you've built ANY passive income. Even Kiyosaki says this in his books.

Instead of using that $30K to live on. Start investing in Real Estate. Right now seems the prime time to buy (depending on area). Work and buy real estate until your real estate income provides enough so you don't have to work.
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Old 07-30-2008, 08:33 AM   #44
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This could potentially generate some interest and discussion in this forum. Care to share the "formula" with us?
First, my thanks goes out to FIRE'd@51 for throwing me a bone. Thanks! Also thank you to Milton for his comments. Afterall, what difference is it to any of you if I lose my shirt. I'll just be another fly by night quack who thought he had all the answers, right? Judging by many of the comments, it sounds as though many of you (there do appear to be exceptions) are only trying to beat me down because you yourselves have not made it yet....

Anyway, back to real world discussion: Let's talk investing. Rich_in_Tampa questions how sales, internet marketing, real estate, and stock investing are related. I think you are missing the point. You could plug in tour guide, or dog walker, and it wouldn't change the scenario, these are simply means to an end. If the goal truly is Early Retirement, then what difference does it make what vehicle you use? Just like any business system your goals are to buy or produce at a substantial discount (whether it is products, services, real estate, stocks, etc...) and sell at as high a price as possible, retain as much profit as possible, and repeat until rich. This is how Rockefeller, Carnegie, Gates, Buffett, you name it this is how they did it.

Sorry for the long segue, but this leads into my investing philosophy. My approach to investing is based in the realm of fundamental investing, with a technical twist. For those of you familiar with Warren Buffett's approach, you know that he only has two rules: 1) Don't lose money, and 2) Don't forget rule number 1! This is my approach to everything I do. I am not out to make a killing, but if I limit my losses and encourage my gains, chances are I will.

Like Buffett, I first choose businesses that interest me in the real world, not just on paper. This gives me a better insight into the company than just reading a financial statement. I then put the company through a test to see that it truly is a solid performer over the long haul (no overnight success stocks here, sorry). Based on the results of my test, I assign a value to the business based on its hard assets, projected income, etc, and wait for market indicators to tell me when I can buy the business at no more than half of this value. This is what Buffett calls his Margin of Safety (this works for real estate and any other endeavor as well).

I first was introduced to these ideas by Phil Town, who idolizes Warren Buffett. He has a book, and now appears on a show on CNBC. After I heard him speak at a seminar about 3 years ago, I read his book, read several other books about Buffett, and then proceeded to paper trade for about a year, so I could get the hang of it without losing any of my own money. On paper, I would invest $5000-$10000 at a time, and the most I ever lost on a trade was $100, because I wasn't paying attention to market indicators. Over the course of a year, I netted about $1800, which is, of course, an 18% return on the $10000 I had fictitiously set aside for trading. All of this was done investing in companies such as Pepsi, Williams Sonoma, Dell, and Target (I am not necessarily recommending you invest in these stocks). I am now starting to throw my own money into the mix, a little at at time with the ultimate goal, of NOT LOSING MONEY!!!

Sorry to take up so much space. I hope this was insightful. Thanks for reading.
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Old 07-30-2008, 09:24 AM   #45
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Still, keep your day job, and you'll be more likely to keep your wife and your super-cool kids. Do this on the side until this, and you, are proven. Otherwise you are at great risk of losing your shirt...and everything else...including your wife. I am pretty sure that if I risked everything on vapor-ware, and it vaporized, my DW would likely dump me (of course I have a lot more assets to lose than you appear to have amassed, thus she would have a few million reasons to dump me...).

A final word of advice, Utah, and SLC, are well known for their get rich quick schemers who end up broke, divorced, and hopeless. Don't become one of them. Stick to the principles of hard work and savings that you have been taught, try some of these things on the side, with small amounts of money, gradually working up...if they REALLY work. Then come back and show us, and we'll believe...until then, you are entitled to exclaim "Oh ye of little faith!"

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Old 07-30-2008, 09:32 AM   #46
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And be sure to join in other threads--if you only post to threads you've started people are going to think you have ulterior motives in posting here (MMND anyone? )....
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Old 07-30-2008, 09:50 AM   #47
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Well, I give you an "A" for effort.

I've seen plenty of go-getters in my line of work (count myself as one of them). Most have not amazed me, but a few have (I have yet to amaze myself). Some of it was due to skill, but a lot had to do with a mix of good luck and good timing. The common theme to all of them was risk-taking.

It sounds like you are willing to take the risk to try what many may be too afraid to try. You may be the type that gets up when you fall while many others may stay down. Only time will tell.

Let's see how long you stick around here and if you post your successes as well as failures along with lessons learned. Again, most people quit posting here when they fail.
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Old 07-30-2008, 10:42 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Rich_in_Tampa View Post
Ken, on your profile you describe yourself as "Sales, Internet Marketing, Real Estate, Stock investing." While some young readers with no money somewhere might take that seriously, to me it is a nonstarter.
EVEN I don't have any of that stuff on my profile..........
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Old 07-30-2008, 10:53 AM   #49
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Anyway, back to real world discussion: Let's talk investing. Rich_in_Tampa questions how sales, internet marketing, real estate, and stock investing are related. I think you are missing the point. You could plug in tour guide, or dog walker, and it wouldn't change the scenario, these are simply means to an end.
Perhaps. However, it takes considerable time and effort to become reasonably proficient at any investing style, or to master a particular business. Focused attention is generally required.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kstronggt View Post
Just like any business system your goals are to buy or produce at a substantial discount (whether it is products, services, real estate, stocks, etc...) and sell at as high a price as possible, retain as much profit as possible, and repeat until rich. This is how Rockefeller, Carnegie, Gates, Buffett, you name it this is how they did it.

Sorry for the long segue, but this leads into my investing philosophy. My approach to investing is based in the realm of fundamental investing, with a technical twist. For those of you familiar with Warren Buffett's approach, you know that he only has two rules: 1) Don't lose money, and 2) Don't forget rule number 1! This is my approach to everything I do. I am not out to make a killing, but if I limit my losses and encourage my gains, chances are I will.

Like Buffett, I first choose businesses that interest me in the real world, not just on paper. This gives me a better insight into the company than just reading a financial statement. I then put the company through a test to see that it truly is a solid performer over the long haul (no overnight success stocks here, sorry). Based on the results of my test, I assign a value to the business based on its hard assets, projected income, etc, and wait for market indicators to tell me when I can buy the business at no more than half of this value. This is what Buffett calls his Margin of Safety (this works for real estate and any other endeavor as well).
These paragraphs say rather more about you then you probably intended.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kstronggt View Post
On paper, I would invest $5000-$10000 at a time, and the most I ever lost on a trade was $100, because I wasn't paying attention to market indicators. Over the course of a year, I netted about $1800, which is, of course, an 18% return on the $10000 I had fictitiously set aside for trading. All of this was done investing in companies such as Pepsi, Williams Sonoma, Dell, and Target (I am not necessarily recommending you invest in these stocks). I am now starting to throw my own money into the mix, a little at at time with the ultimate goal, of NOT LOSING MONEY!!!
Point 1: there is typically a large difference between fake paper trading and investing with real money.

Point 2: if (if!) you can consistently earn 18% p.a., that works out to (only) $5,400 annual income on your modest capital of $30,000. Presumably you could earn more selling cars (or working part-time at McDonalds, for that matter).

But as I said before, it's your life not mine. Have fun, and do report back to us in November.
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Old 07-30-2008, 11:27 AM   #50
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.... Judging by many of the comments, it sounds as though many of you (there do appear to be exceptions) are only trying to beat me down because you yourselves have not made it yet.....
OH MY GOD!!!!

You didn't just say that

Someone with a whopping $30K in SAVINGS is going to insult a huge majority of the people on this board who can make or lose that amount in a few days with the stock market swings....

Where is that ignore button again?
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Old 07-30-2008, 11:50 AM   #51
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Yeah, that's a pretty funny comment, Texas Proud.

It does sound like a few people are begging for the OP to give details, so they can cry out SPAMMER! A troll can liven things up quite a bit, and some people really like that. But the OP has played within the rules, give him credit for that. Maybe only that.
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Old 07-30-2008, 12:39 PM   #52
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Judging by many of the comments, it sounds as though many of you (there do appear to be exceptions) are only trying to beat me down because you yourselves have not made it yet...
I'll speak for myself. If it seems that I personally "beat you down" it's because I/DW have made it, but not by presenting a barrage of platitudes, as you have done.

What I (and my DW) have today is because of long, drawn up "series of events" that started with a good plan, executed with a good foundation, and built with good materials to "weather the storm of life" (yes, just like a house). BTW, I/DW have lost/gained $30k not in a few, but just in one day, validating the comment made by Texas Proud (we like rollercoasters ).

We've built a house of brick. What I see with your proposed plan is a house built with sticks (another fairytale).

I believe that is why you have a lot of folks questioning you. Where many of us are here sharing our life's actual results, you are promoting your life's "proposed dream" (without results).

Not to say that there are those that are on this board still "building their house" (good for them). However, in most cases, if they are willing to talk about their plan/actions most (if built with a good, solid plan) will get positive input from the "old folks" on this forum.

Unfortunately, you are not in this camp (but please, keep trying - we'll tell you when you get it right )...

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Old 07-30-2008, 01:16 PM   #53
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Ken, when I was your age, I wish that someone could have shown me how analyzing and investing in individual stocks is a loser's game. With that in mind, take a look at this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Winning-...7441662&sr=8-2

Also, pretend investing on paper is day-and-night different from investing with actual money.
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Old 07-30-2008, 01:16 PM   #54
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OH MY GOD!!!!

You didn't just say that

Someone with a whopping $30K in SAVINGS is going to insult a huge majority of the people on this board who can make or lose that amount in a few days with the stock market swings....
Or a day, or in some cases a morning. This guy had spam written all over him from day one. If it looks and smells like caca, it isn't chocolate pudding.

Ha
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Old 07-30-2008, 01:21 PM   #55
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Thsi guy had spam written all over him from day one.
My take is that Ken has just been bitten by the investment bug, and he's really into in and also breathtakingly naive.
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Old 07-30-2008, 01:46 PM   #56
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On paper, I would invest $5000-$10000 at a time, and the most I ever lost on a trade was $100, because I wasn't paying attention to market indicators. Over the course of a year, I netted about $1800, which is, of course, an 18% return on the $10000 I had fictitiously set aside for trading.
So, how do you distinguish this synthetic short-term record from random chance or blind luck? Have you even backtested, let alone continued the strategy? How's it working out over the last six months? How's it working out after commissions & taxes?

It's interesting that you feel "beaten down" and can reassure yourself that many of us haven't made it, when you apparently have not made a discernable effort to learn about the board's members. You're quite happy to tell us what you're going to do (if not necessarily the details of how you're going to accomplish it) and yet you seem less than happy with the skepticism you're encountering.

If you're emulating the rich mentors like Buffett & Gates, and if you want to ER, would it make sense to observe or even ask questions of the members of this board who, in your opinion, have "made it"?

At this point I'm happy to settle back with a large tub of popcorn and enjoy the show. Can I bring any of you other spectators a frosty beverage while I'm getting one for myself?
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Old 07-30-2008, 01:47 PM   #57
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as an aside, he looks just like my buddy Jason. And, incidentally, Jason has the same last name as my username... so I'm a little freaked out here.
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Old 07-30-2008, 01:51 PM   #58
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Can I bring any of you other spectators a frosty beverage while I'm getting one for myself?
As one of the other "other spectators", sure (drop it in the mail )...

- Ron
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Old 07-30-2008, 02:58 PM   #59
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My take is that Ken has just been bitten by the investment bug, and he's really into in and also breathtakingly naive.
Yeah, that's my impression too.

Buy low, sell high. It's so simple, any child could do it!
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Old 07-30-2008, 04:01 PM   #60
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OH MY GOD!!!!

You didn't just say that

Someone with a whopping $30K in SAVINGS is going to insult a huge majority of the people on this board who can make or lose that amount in a few days with the stock market swings....

Where is that ignore button again?
Well darned it all. Thanks for reminding me just how poor I am. It takes me a full week to lose $30K in the market.
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