A slight twist on How do you convince your Spouse to RE

[oscar1]

I am in same boat. There is something comforting to spouses know some money is still coming in from somewhere. Also, people do seem to underestimate the relationship impact once both husband and wife are at home together 24x7. It's a major adjustment and you need to plan for it. I recently picked up "How To Retire Happy, Wild, and Free" by Ernie Zelinski. I am about half way through it. There is exercises you can do to list 50 things you have always wanted to do, or do in your spare time and want to do more of, travel, etc. idea is put together your post-retirement plan. I am having my wife do the excercises too hoping some of her interests overlap with mine. If they do not, no big deal, she can have her interests, me mine, and we avoid getting on each other's nerves 24x7 and can travel together and do other things that reward each of us in our lives.

Besides that, at some point I will sit down with the financial planner and my wife and prove that if we are careful, money will never run out. Ready blogs like this have convinced me that we will have a much more fullfilling life not working for someone else the rest of our lives.

Good luck! It's a bright, big, beautiful tomorrow . . .


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[kimcdougc]

My situation is so different. I retired (4) years ago. DH and I agreed on this. I got to retire when our DD graduated college. I am the CFO, lawn man, maid etc at home. He doesn't have to worry about anything getting done here. I have encouraged DH to retire at the end of this year. It has taken about months to finally get him in the retirement frame of mind. I showed DH that we would be ok financially. Finally after talking to our FA, he has come around to the idea of retiring at the end of 2014. I look forward to spending more time with my best friend. We have been married 35 years, raised two children. Do understand I have my own interest outside the home and he will have to find his. Just my 2 cents. Good luck with your decisions.

 

[iac1003]

This is an interesting discussion to me. DH retired 4 years ago at age 68 and might have kept going if it wasn't a 36/7 job.

When I talk about my retirement I can see the freaked out look in his eyes. I think it's a security issue since FIRECalc puts us in a pretty good position. We have no problem hanging out in the same room together, having lived in a small NYC apartment for about 18 years. In fact my company lost one of its contracts last week and I thought I was going to join the class of 2014 but alas the administrator of another place signed a contract with us literally the minute he heard I was available.

I'm not sure how to placate a spouse who is insecure about money. There are so many reasons why this must be the case, and some deep-seated ones that may have nothing to do with the marriage.

I am taking the time to discuss this with DH but in the end I am going to retire earlier than I originally thought whether he "approves" or not. In my field I can always go back to w*rk but I would prefer not to. I'm just tired of w*rking and have many other interests I'd like to pursue.

It all w*rks out in the end.


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[Katsmeow]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katsmeow
I can't understand how your wife could retire herself and then think it fair for you to have to keep working when you have enough money to retire.

Can you understand if a wife does not work in general (not retired, just doesn't work) and the husband works to support the couple and she thinks that is fair? Isn't that a common situation? How is it different? What is wrong with a husband working to support the couple while the wife doesn't work? It seems to me that is a common situation whether the wife is retired, working part time, or never worked.

Well, personally, since you ask, I don't really understand a healthy spouse not working and being supported by the other spouse for the entirety of the marriage (particularly when there are no children).

Now -- I can understand -- a family deciding to have one parent stay home with children, particularly small children not in school or children being homeschooled. That is understandable to me that a family could choose to have a stay at home parent. I have no issue with that. (Not the choice I made -- DH and I both worked full-time when we had young children. My own mother in the 1950s worked my entire life. She did it out of choice.)

And, certainly, I could understand if one of the spouses had a health issue or disability not working. And, I'm sure there are other exceptions I haven't mentioned (for example, one spouse working abroad and the other spouse can't obtain a work permit).

But -- when it comes to 2 healthy spouses both able to work with no impediments -- it just seems terribly unfair for one of them to be entirely supported by the other spouse. Now, I could see one of them taking off for some sort of sabbatical-like thing and then the other one doing it. And, if both have worked and are FI and one ends up retiring earlier, I have no issue with that. My husband is 6 1/2 years older than me and he retired while I only semi-retired.

I mean I'm trying to imagine how it would have felt to me if, when I was engaged to my husband, he had announced to me that when we got married, he was going to quit his job and I could support him (without us having children). I would not have looked too kindly on that notion. I can't think of why he should quit his job because we were getting married.

So - given that I feel that way - I can't really think of any reason I should have quit my job and expected him to support me just because we were getting married.

 

[ivinsfan]

Katsmeow, what a great post. As the mother of 2 daughters one thing you didn't mention was security for the partner that doesn't join the workforce. Not having the proper education or a history of gainful employment leaves an individual exposed to financial problems should a divorce or death occur.

My husband is 4 plus years older then I am, we married at the ripe old age of 18 and 24. After 6 months of marriage he wanted to relocate 1000 plus miles to the midwest and farm with his family. Oh yes, it was a dairy farm as well, as an Army brat I knew nothing about farming. It took me 3 years to just figure out what I had gotten myself into. We had a couple of daughters and I began to work on the farm. We began to expand and pretty soon I managed and milked the cows and DH cropped, helped with cattle and managed the business.

Fast forward 35 years, I have never held a job in in the "outside" world, the cattle were sold almost 5 years ago and I myself am ER'd. My husband, no, he continues to tie us to a crop farming schedule and I think he would be happy to farm until the day he can't climb up into the tractor.

We did a Fourth of July Independence day review yesterday and we don't even talk multiples of annual expenses or WR any more. My DH says of our assets, it's like what Rolls Royce says about the horsepower in the their cars...more then adequate.

What's my point? It worked out well for us, but looking back I left myself pretty exposed if out marriage hadn't worked out well. All my money flowed thru my husband and his family.
I should had finished school and had my own career, if only for peace of mind. Second point, although we have had the same goals for 40+ years by working "for" my husband by default he was the top dog and has trouble taking my input as to when we could both be retired completely.
Some of the things we are reading about here are simply marriage politics and every marriage has it own political climate.

 

[Mulligan]

Katsmeow, what a great post. As the mother of 2 daughters one thing you didn't mention was security for the partner that doesn't join the workforce. Not having the proper education or a history of gainful employment leaves an individual exposed to financial problems should a divorce or death occur.

My husband is 4 plus years older then I am, we married at the ripe old age of 18 and 24. After 6 months of marriage he wanted to relocate 1000 plus miles to the midwest and farm with his family. Oh yes, it was a dairy farm as well, as an Army brat I knew nothing about farming. It took me 3 years to just figure out what I had gotten myself into. We had a couple of daughters and I began to work on the farm. We began to expand and pretty soon I managed and milked the cows and DH cropped, helped with cattle and managed the business.

Fast forward 35 years, I have never held a job in in the "outside" world, the cattle were sold almost 5 years ago and I myself am ER'd. My husband, no, he continues to tie us to a crop farming schedule and I think he would be happy to farm until the day he can't climb up into the tractor.

We did a Fourth of July Independence day review yesterday and we don't even talk multiples of annual expenses or WR any more. My DH says of our assets, it's like what Rolls Royce says about the horsepower in the their cars...more then adequate.

What's my point? It worked out well for us, but looking back I left myself pretty exposed if out marriage hadn't worked out well. All my money flowed thru my husband and his family.
I should had finished school and had my own career, if only for peace of mind. Second point, although we have had the same goals for 40+ years by working "for" my husband by default he was the top dog and has trouble taking my input as to when we could both be retired completely.
Some of the things we are reading about here are simply marriage politics and every marriage has it own political climate.

Ivinsfan, your post made me chuckle. I kept waiting for the part where you would say your husband would be happy working essentially until the day he dies. Though I wasn't a farmer, I lived in farming country. Out of my many friends whose families are in the farming business, I do not know of one who ever "retired". And selling the land to cash in on the profits? Ya, right, farming stays in the blood, forever!


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[Katsmeow]

What's my point? It worked out well for us, but looking back I left myself pretty exposed if out marriage hadn't worked out well. All my money flowed thru my husband and his family.

This is an excellent point and one I agree with.

My mother is 90 and this is the big part of why she always worked. She got married in 1945 when she was 21, My dad was a co-worker where she was employed. She just kept working when they got married. 9 years later they adopted me and she stayed home for about 6 months with me, then went to back to work at the same company and she continued working until she retired.

I asked her once why she kept working, particularly after they adopted me. As a child I remember knowing only one other child whose mother worked and that was a mother who was divorced. This was back in the early to mid-60s and the moms mostly didn't work outside the home. (I had no objection to her working, was just later curious as to why she made that choice when it wasn't a common one.)

She told me it was mostly because she wanted to always have her independence. She didn't want to be dependent on someone else. And, she enjoyed her job and liked the security of knowing she could earn her living.

I think all of this formed a large part of may world view.

 

[Throwdownmyaceinthehole]

Independence Day chat went very well and we are both on board for me to retire completely or splurge whatever part time money I make. We discussed what we wanted to splurge on, and definitely decided against second homes, new car, jewelry and expensive wines. Decided on more vrbo vacations, maybe a new bike for hubby and a sunfish for me. Just worrying less about money and roll along. I've got a couple work projects to finish up and I'll reevaluate when those are done.

 

[slowsaver]

My husband brought up RE about a year and a half ago, and I got really worried. But it caused me to start planning and thinking about it, and now I am much more comfortable with the idea and much better informed about finances now. It's fair to give her time to let the idea sink in. If she still stonewalls when you bring it up again in 3 months, I'd be surprised.

 

[Lancelot]

My situation is not all that contentious, there is no danger of a divorce...besides she actually has a lot more money that I do so if I was to go it alone it would probably be tougher than it is together.

My feeling is that it is fear of the unknown that is the main reason. When I first met my wife 24ish years ago she already had a fair bit of cash but it was entirely in cash/CD because she was worried about being in the stock market. That's been corrected but some of that still lingers I think. The next visit to the FA will be most interesting I think

Many folks are leery of change and find comfort in regimentation. Risk aversion is also a biggie, as in going from a nice pay check to no pay check...

The bigger question is how do you feel about this? Will you eventually resent working another 10 years? How would your wife feel if the situation was reversed?

In any case good luck to you both.

 

[aim-high]

My situation is not all that contentious, there is no danger of a divorce...besides she actually has a lot more money that I do so if I was to go it alone it would probably be tougher than it is together.

My feeling is that it is fear of the unknown that is the main reason. When I first met my wife 24ish years ago she already had a fair bit of cash but it was entirely in cash/CD because she was worried about being in the stock market. That's been corrected but some of that still lingers I think. The next visit to the FA will be most interesting I think

I don't understand how after 24 years she has her FA and her money and you have yours? You have lived as if it's hers and yours for 24 years instead of ours?

:::: my context below ::::

When I got married I was 21 and DW was 23. That was over 26 years ago. I guess because we started with nothing, from day one there was no such thing as mine and yours with respect to finances. Other than individual discretionary portions of the budget (spending choices) all assets are "ours," regardless of how they're titled or earned.

For the first three years of marriage, she earned more than I did. But she's been a homemaker for 23 years now. Nevertheless, we are still one, as a unit financially and in all other ways. Both of us would do whatever it takes for each other.

I don't mean any judgment by my question. Given my context, when I say I don't understand, really, I don't understand.

What gives you each that sense that you're in this individually rather than in this together?

It seems you're in it together in that she has input as to when you should RE. Your income keeps her secure. But you look at your assets as individuals as in her assets and yours.

Do you keep and spend all of your paycheck and does she live off her assets for her RE?

How do you work that?

 

[ivinsfan]

Ivinsfan, your post made me chuckle. I kept waiting for the part where you would say your husband would be happy working essentially until the day he dies. Though I wasn't a farmer, I lived in farming country. Out of my many friends whose families are in the farming business, I do not know of one who ever "retired". And selling the land to cash in on the profits? Ya, right, farming stays in the blood, forever!


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Do you know my husband?LOL, Yes, I suspect that he secretly entertains the "I'll farm till I drop and then rent it out" scenario but in the interest of harmony doesn't say it out loud. His family has farmed since they immigrated from Europe, it in his blood, what he does, who he is.

OTOH, as a novice only 40 plus years in, to me it's an income and yes a way of life. But when weather issues, breakdowns, long hours at harvest and low prices happen ( sometimes these things all happen at the same time) I want nothing more then to be finished with the active farming. We have help and he doesn't go it alone, but the stress and responsibility factor can't really be delegated.

We have never had disagreements about money, but as we are aging we find we absolutely are not on the same page about this issue. It's not even an ER issue, my DH is 65.This is going to be a hard one, because one of us won't really be satisfied with either option. This is literally the only thing we disagree about at the 42 year mark of our marriage.

 

[CorporateSoldier]

Boy does all this sound familiar. My DW has always been a stay at home Mom. I am 47, she is 44. I expect to retire somewhere between 55 and 60. I recently told her I may be want to retire at 55 with a more modest lifestyle instead of, say, 60 with a more luxurious lifestyle. She seemed unhappy with that thought - said she is looking forward to doing a lot of traveling and so forth when "we" retire.

I told her she should probably find a job now and start saving for that fancy retirement of hers.

 

[BTravlin]

Boy does all this sound familiar. My DW has always been a stay at home Mom. I am 47, she is 44. I expect to retire somewhere between 55 and 60. I recently told her I may be want to retire at 55 with a more modest lifestyle instead of, say, 60 with a more luxurious lifestyle. She seemed unhappy with that thought - said she is looking forward to doing a lot of traveling and so forth when "we" retire.

I told her she should probably find a job now and start saving for that fancy retirement of hers.

And how did she react to that?

 

[CorporateSoldier]

And how did she react to that?

let's say she was somewhere south of happy.

but she'll get over it

 

[Sittingduck]

let's say she was somewhere south of happy.

but she'll get over it

Watching someones perspective going thru a change is interesting - is it not?

 

[daylatedollarshort]

When DH wanted to retire before the kids were out of college, I didn't really know at first what that meant for our finances. I found the Consumer Expenditure Survey online and we realized if we were willing to live a little less high on the hog we could both retire. We just went through the CES line by line and looked at where our expenses were unnecessarily high and scaled back.

 

[BTravlin]

let's say she was somewhere south of happy.

but she'll get over it

Since she is a stay at home mom she can probably cut expenses even more during the next several years if she wants a "better" retirement.

 

[ivinsfan]

Are the last few posters all men, it's starting to feel a little misogynistic in here ( not you DLDS...) Last I heard, SAHM is a job and all couple retirements are joint retirements at some point.

 

[CorporateSoldier]

Are the last few posters all men, it's starting to feel a little misogynistic in here ( not you DLDS...) Last I heard, SAHM is a job and all couple retirements are joint retirements at some point.

Yes in my case.

It's an interesting moral question. Personally, I see it as my call as to when I want to retire if the decision is based on an average retirement lifestyle versus a more luxurious one.

 

[ivinsfan]

Yes, but then again, if you are part of a committed couple, average and luxurious..would be a joint decision. You have a few years to figure this stuff out.

 

[Sarah in SC]

Some of the things we are reading about here are simply marriage politics and every marriage has it own political climate.

Wise words indeed. DH quit working last year and shows no sign of really wanting to return to anything like regular work after this sabbatical (REW warned me that would happen, lol).

Lots of changes when there is a shift like that in a normal 2 earner household. I'll be working at least another 8 years, regardless. He's had a very significant adjustment period, and our marriage politics have changed somewhat as a result.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Every $10K a year we cut from our expenses meant needing $500K less in retirement funding, so for us learning to live well but on a more normal middle class budget has made more difference than even both of us working an extra decade. Our tech career incomes allowed us to save decent amount of money each year and we always lived below our means, but the Consumer Expenditure Survey was a real eye opener for us that other people seemed to get by just fine on a lot less than we were spending. (The OECD income charts were even more of an amazing revelation to us. We could have retired to the South of France years ago if we realized the cost of living differential -

OECD Better Life Index)

The cool part is that we still live in the same house and actually drive better cars and go out a lot. We just went over every line item in the budget and figured out how to optimize each expense. Like I bought a Mother Earth News book on how to cut energy bills, and now we use half as much energy as we used to and half as much as similar homes in our neighborhood, but because of tiered rates our energy bill dropped by 2/3s, and no one has missed not using more kwhs of electricity or therms of gas.

We had a friend die last week before he ever had a chance to retire, so I am glad DH was able to retire when he did. I worked at home but DH went from 60+ hours a week with commute and a high stress job to being able to hike in the Redwoods with me or one of his clubs on weekdays and eat healthy meals we now have time to cook from scratch. So I think it is better for us to live like we do now than spend more money and have him die of a heart attack at work from stress.

 

[nuke_diver]

I surprised (and shocked actually) at some of the responses. There are a few that seem to understand what my wife's concerns are and then there are a whole bunch that wonder why we have separate expenses. On that latter as I mentioned, we both were living independent for many years before we got married thus merging finances just didn't make sense to either of us. We always just work out who pays for what and have never had a single arguement over money...not once. As mentioned every marriage is different and what works perfect for me won't work for you as visa versa...this works for us.

For the record we did discuss this over the weekend. And other than the concern of having enough (which is the real major one for both of us because it is the biggest unknown) she said she kind of forgot how old I was lol. And if we do have enough she has no issues with me retiring. So we will finish the remodel, I will get my knee scoped and then we will see what makes the most sense in terms of timing.

I have little doubt that much will change as we are very frugal people already. Like in DLDS's post above we get a ranking of our energy use and we are typically better than similar energy efficient houses..except our house is not energy efficient because it was built in Calif in the 60's...we just don't use much energy (AC set at 80F, heat set at 66F use fans instead of AC when outside temp is less than inside in summer etc). There will likely be more travel but I have budgeted for it and I think it is an acceptable budget. The only thing that I don't know how to do is how to ration the money once the paycheck ends so the discussion with the FA will be important in that regard

 

[Culture]

If a man makes excellent money, having a wife who is happy in a homemaker role can really improve his life.

This is my situation. My wife works part time at work (for me), and full time at home ensuring that the domestic side of life is smooth sailing. It has really improved our quality of life since she quit working full time. I could not be self employed if not for what she does at home.

Half of our assets are hers, and I would not begrudge her getting half if the worst ever happened.