A slight twist on How do you convince your Spouse to RE

[haha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by easysurfer My brother has a similar situation but with a twist. Financially, they could easily FIRE In his case, he is retired, but is wife likes work and wants him to work. As a result, they are heading towards divorce.

Do they also notice this?

[nuke_diver]

My situation is not all that contentious, there is no danger of a divorce...besides she actually has a lot more money that I do so if I was to go it alone it would probably be tougher than it is together.

My feeling is that it is fear of the unknown that is the main reason. When I first met my wife 24ish years ago she already had a fair bit of cash but it was entirely in cash/CD because she was worried about being in the stock market. That's been corrected but some of that still lingers I think. The next visit to the FA will be most interesting I think

[Katsmeow]

4 years ago DH retired and I went to very part-time work (my choice - he has always said it is up to me when I retire completely).

Of course, it would be nice for me to have retired fully and for him to keep working. We aren't big travelers so I wouldn't have needed him to retire so we can travel. And, I'm sure it would have been even nicer for me to keep working full-time. (In our situation, he had better benefits and I had the higher salary).

But, I also knew that wouldn't be fair. I can't understand how your wife could retire herself and then think it fair for you to have to keep working when you have enough money to retire.

There are some exceptions I guess I could think of:

1. You had financial reverses since she retired that would make it difficult for you to retire at the originally planned financial level.

2. She retired with the understanding that you would continue to work for longer than you have continued working.

In those situations then I think there needs to be a discussion.

But, just wanting you to work to provide a security blanket would lead me to telling her to go get a job herself if she is so worried.

[FIREd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nuke_diver My situation is not all that contentious, there is no danger of a divorce...besides she actually has a lot more money that I do so if I was to go it alone it would probably be tougher than it is together. My feeling is that it is fear of the unknown that is the main reason. When I first met my wife 24ish years ago she already had a fair bit of cash but it was entirely in cash/CD because she was worried about being in the stock market. That's been corrected but some of that still lingers I think. The next visit to the FA will be most interesting I think

This statement changes my perspective on the situation quite a bit. Perhaps she is concerned that your retirement plans rely too much on her money?

[Loving Life]

When I told my DW that I want to retire, she freaked out - she is 10 years younger than I. I sat her down with my Financial Advisor and went over our financial plan. Had plenty of $$$, (check), have medical insurance dealt with (check) House paid off (check), no debts (check) and after many discussions, fights, and arguments, I finally discovered her concerns - she wanted me to get a life insurance policy for 3/4 of million and then she agreed.

I have now convinced her to retire at the end of year, stating that we have got to spend the savings sometime.

In January, we are off on a round the world trip for a half a year -

[MBAustin]

Reading this thread makes me very grateful that DH and I have always been on the same page about this kind of stuff!

[Throwdownmyaceinthehole]

Quote:

Originally Posted by donheff I am amazed at all the asymmetric relationships reported in this thread. I would expect these spousal attitudes to drive people directly to the door. Maybe that should be the response - "I am ready to pull the plug, think how much more secure you will be if I go with you rather than without?"

We may have disagreements on this and resentment, but no way are we headed to the door, too many other things that we like to do together. Just cuz you're mad at your spouse on occasion doesn't mean you chunk it all. I may growl at him a bit, but I'll get over it, and then he brings me a glass of wine....

[Walt34]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Throwdownmyaceinthehole I may growl at him a bit, but I'll get over it, and then he brings me a glass of wine....

That happens here as well on both sides. The important thing is we both know it.

[nuke_diver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIREd This statement changes my perspective on the situation quite a bit. Perhaps she is concerned that your retirement plans rely too much on her money?

No, as I said I think it is simply fear of the unknown. If she hears it from her FA I think she will be less concerned. A salary is known right now, no salary is not. And she wants to be comfortable as do I so she wants to be sure

Some of the calculations say we could do it on my savings alone. She's an engineer so being older and out of work for a long time getting a job is unlikely. We are both process engineers so while Si Valley has a lot of tech there actually is not much Si in Si valley anymore. Leaving means not getting back for older workers more often than not (I know several that have had retirement forced on them as a result).

Reason will eventually win out over fear I'm sure

[JustCurious]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katsmeow I can't understand how your wife could retire herself and then think it fair for you to have to keep working when you have enough money to retire.

Can you understand if a wife does not work in general (not retired, just doesn't work) and the husband works to support the couple and she thinks that is fair? Isn't that a common situation? How is it different? What is wrong with a husband working to support the couple while the wife doesn't work? It seems to me that is a common situation whether the wife is retired, working part time, or never worked.

[Grigori]

I've been doing a OMY for a year and a half now. Some of it has been me being wishy washy and chasing the next bonus.

Some was my wife. We had quite a few fights. My wife just couldn't / wouldn't see that we had enough, and ignored all the financial modeling I did with FIRECALC, RIP, ESPP, and the projections of the vanguard financial planner.

Two things finally got her over :
1. She took the investable asset number and divided by 30 years life expectancy. She was surprised how much difference social security and pension made added on top of that.
2. I had a major meltdown one Monday morning at the office, and called home screaming. The BS bucket finally got totally full and overflowing. In got totally clear that I was "burning life" at this point, and needed to get out while I still had enough life left to enjoy retirement.

Now she has come around and insists I quit December 31st. That's what I'm going to do. So now she's actually a support to help me keep from getting wishy washy again.

[haha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustCurious Can you understand if a wife does not work in general (not retired, just doesn't work) and the husband works to support the couple and she thinks that is fair? Isn't that a common situation? How is it different? What is wrong with a husband working to support the couple while the wife doesn't work? It seems to me that is a common situation whether the wife is retired, working part time, or never worked.

This is very uncommon today, is it not? Except perhaps when the man makes very good money and there are children?

If a man makes excellent money, having a wife who is happy in a homemaker role can really improve his life. It takes a lot of trust though, since if things go bad in the marriage, she has little economic incentive to hang around. Family court will see to it she can continue to live indefinitely at the level to which she has become accustomed.

Ha

[Live Free]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haha It takes a lot of trust though, since if things go bad in the marriage, she has little economic incentive to hang around. Family court will see to it she can continue to live indefinitely at the level to which she has become accustomed. Ha

I dunno. I have a lot of girlfriends that are in their forties who were stay-at-home moms and then were faced with divorce. Most of them are not nearly as well off as single moms. They are behind on earnings (and thus have reduced future retirement contributions) after having been removed from the work force for so long. The child support isn't enough to cover daycare, clothes, food, roof over head, incidentals, etc. I suppose if their husbands made a lot of money this might not be true. But for middle class folks, I think both men and women do not come out ahead financially in divorce - and most women come out far worse.

[ivinsfan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nuke_diver My situation is not all that contentious, there is no danger of a divorce...besides she actually has a lot more money that I do so if I was to go it alone it would probably be tougher than it is together.

OP,I'm confused by all your comments on this thread. You have been a couple for a long time, what is the her/money/my money idea. Did you agree you would each fund your own ER? Since you are still working does she contribute part of her "bigger" stash to monthly expenses, or do your fund all the expenses from your salary? If it's the latter, her stash will only grow bigger with time and she greatly benefits from your continued work.

As for your FA, don't count on he/she to tell you that you have more then enough. They benefit as well when you have fresh money to invest. You might not get the answer you desire and then your ER plans will an uphill battle.
Once you start a drawdown the FA income will drop as well.

[Chuckanut]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustCurious Can you understand if a wife does not work in general (not retired, just doesn't work) and the husband works to support the couple and she thinks that is fair? Isn't that a common situation? How is it different? What is wrong with a husband working to support the couple while the wife doesn't work?

What's wrong with the wife having to get her husband's permission to get a credit card? Or open a bank account? Why not repeal woman's suffrage while we're at it?

It's 1950's America, all over again.

[JustCurious]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuckanut What's wrong with the wife having to get her husband's permission to get a credit card? Or open a bank account? Why not repeal woman's suffrage while we're at it?

I didn't say any of those things were common. You are proposing something I didn't say and then arguing about it, I think they call that a straw man argument.

I know several couples in which the husband is the primary breadwinner, and the wife either does not work, or she works part time and makes substantially less while taking care of the house and the kids.

[hakuna matata]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustCurious Can you understand if a wife does not work in general (not retired, just doesn't work) and the husband works to support the couple and she thinks that is fair? Isn't that a common situation? How is it different? What is wrong with a husband working to support the couple while the wife doesn't work? It seems to me that is a common situation whether the wife is retired, working part time, or never worked.

It may or may not be common but not being FIRE is common too. This is a board where the intent of the vast majority of participants is to FIRE, so in order to do that they must approach it differently than 'common'. So I fail to understand what common has to do with the situation.

My wife and I are a team, and as a team the goal is for BOTH of us to reach retirement together (whether that is the same day or 10 years apart). We couldn't do that unless we both work towards that goal. One of us staying at home makes that task a much more difficult one to obtain.

If one spouse makes enough that the other can stay at home and they BOTH agree to it, then there is nothing inherently wrong with that (not for me but nothing wrong with it). However in the OP here the husband wants to retire but the spouse who retired 10 years ago doesn't want to allow that. I think that is wrong, obviously YMMV.

I have a good friend whose wife would make more than he does if she goes back to work, but she won't do it now. So they will never retire early, in fact had dinner with them the other night and he was telling me he doesn't think he can retire at age 65! Personally I think that is wrong, she gets to do what she wants and he has to work his ass into the ground. I honestly think my friend will end up dying on the job before he can retire.

Situations like that make me appreciate my supportive and loving wife! We laid out our goal and both are moving towards it. 60 days left!

[Chuckanut]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustCurious I didn't say any of those things were common. You are proposing something I didn't say and then arguing about it, I think they call that a straw man argument. I know several couples in which the husband is the primary breadwinner, and the wife either does not work, or she works part time and makes substantially less while taking care of the house and the kids.

Perhaps I misunderstood you post. In the context of the OP's concerns, it seemed very old fashioned to me that the husband should continue to work simply to satisfy some view of the world that is not very relevant in modern American society. My apologies for the misunderstanding.

[JustCurious]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuckanut Perhaps I misunderstood you post. In the context of the OP's concerns, it seemed very old fashioned to me that the husband should continue to work simply to satisfy some view of the world that is not very relevant in modern American society. My apologies for the misunderstanding.

I accept your apology, but you are doing it again. I don't know what "view of the world" you are referring to that you imply that I hold? I didn't say that I hold any particular view of the world.

[JustCurious]

Here is an interesting data point... According to a recent PEW research study, 29% of mothers with children under the age of 18 do not work outside the home, and most of them are supported by a husband.

More women staying home with young kids

"According to a new partnered survey cosponsored by ForbesWoman and TheBump.com, a growing number of women see staying home to raise children (while a partner provides financial support) to be the ideal circumstances of motherhood. Forget the corporate climb; these young mothers have another definition of success: setting work aside to stay home with the kids."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/meghanca...working-women/

With 1 out of 3 mothers not working outside the home, I would hardly call that lifestyle "not relevant to modern American society."