Amazed..... Just a comment.

[samclem]

Even if the teachers themselves feel like moving on this point, don't be surprised if the Union, looking at the bigger National picture, shuts it down. There seems to be a big 'if we give an inch they will take a mile' stance on this. What it might take is the teachers trying to get out of the Union, not very likely, IMO.

One also has to wonder why the teacher's unions even had a say in this whole process of applying for the federal grant. This was about curriculum, accountability, and improving student performance. That's all the job of the folks running the schools, not the teachers union.

But, I think we all know why this federal grant process required a sign-off by the unions. In this case it worked out well, as it highlighted for the public where the problem is.

 

[HsiaoChu]

I used to believe that. No more. Economic necessity and culture-enforced obligations severely curtail what we are "free" to do. Some mules just bear the yoke better than others. A few eventually break loose to run around the fields for a while....

Yeah..... When one is single, with no responsibilities, yeah sure...... just move on. When one has a family, a house payment and kids in college(or just kids), simply moving on, is often not in the cards.

Z

 

[HsiaoChu]

Z - The fact that you even had to ask makes it seem to me like you've been living in a bubble. Seriously, how could one not be aware of the stress placed on the private sector from global competition? I'm not sure we need a new thread on a subject that is a painfully reality to most people?

-ERD50

Of course I know it. I just want to talk about specifics with everyone. Sorry. Knowing in a general way is not as good as "THE STORIES"! The fin is in hearing the stories. You have to know that I've been a professional counselor for 40 years. I talk to children about their stories of their lives, good and bad.

I know for most people a career talking with people about their stories is alien, it was for my father in law, but people only can move on if they can share their story.

Once a counselor, always a counselor.

Z

 

[samclem]

I did, back in the 50's. It was called Catholic school, and taught by some of the meanist penguins you would ever meet . . .

Jake and Elwood go to visit the Penguin. (Audio not safe for work).

I've wondered if this stunt was "real." I'd want a lot of money to take a tumble in a school desk down a flight of stairs.

 

[F4mandolin]

Ziggy, subbing is likely to be my fall back plan if we need a little extra money for some reason. After tax pay at the near by school where we are retiring is around $100 a day. Not bad and I would be able to pick when I wanted to work (not more than I have to). But not a bad way to pick up $5-10K a year working during the winter.

 

[HsiaoChu]

Ziggy, subbing is likely to be my fall back plan if we need a little extra money for some reason. After tax pay at the near by school where we are retiring is around $100 a day. Not bad and I would be able to pick when I wanted to work (not more than I have to). But not a bad way to pick up $5-10K a year working during the winter.

Not really that good either..... if you work an 8 hour day, its only 12.50 an hour. Most retired teachers have 30+ years of experience and at Least a masters degree. When my FIL retired from business, his consulting job paid him just a bit less than he made when he was working, and this was backin 1987: or $500 a day.

I'm not suggesting that districts can afford something like that, only that what is customary for business with certain education levels and experience, can just never happen in the public sector that relies on taxes not on products.

Maybe in the future in the Star Trek world. But I'm not holding my breath.

Z

 

[ERD50]

Of course I know it. I just want to talk about specifics with everyone.

Z

Ah, OK - I didn't get that from the way it was posted. Sounds good to me now.

Let the stories begin then!


ohh, I'll throw in one bit of 'color' to this (then I really need to go do some work around the house)...

I'm always skeptical when someone says they 'love their job'. I know it is true in some cases, but I really think that many of those people say it to build themselves up. Admitting that you don't like your job is kind of degrading and sad. So some say they love it, and maybe even believe it, because they don't want to face the truth. I've known people to say that, then after moving to another job will tell you how horrible their previous job (that they said they loved at the time) was in retrospect.

OTOH, different people, different personalities, they may have much more tolerance for the bad stuff and focus on the good. Maybe in hindsight the 'bad' becomes more real to them.


-ERD50

 

[rescueme]

Jake and Elwood go to visit the Penguin. (Audio not safe for work).

I've wondered if this stunt was "real." I'd want a lot of money to take a tumble in a school desk down a flight of stairs.

I'll can attest to the "knuckle rapping" (either with a ruler or blackboard pointer).

Corporal punishment was freely applied in those days.

Heck, my wife (who attended through HS) told me of the times that all the girls would have to go kneel in the auditorium and the nuns would come around and rip the hems of their uniforms if they did not reach the floor (too short) - and this was in the early 60's....

 

[F4mandolin]

Zarathru, kind of true with the money.....but how many jobs let you come and go when you feel like it? Less than an 8 hour day for subbing with none of the regular teacher after duty responsibilities. I don't plan to work....but it isn't a bad way to work a few months during the winter to pick up enough money for a trip or a new bicycle (I don't buy cheap bikes). I don't know if there will be many part time jobs around where I will be living in a couple of years....depends on how I deal with retirement as well. Although as a footnote to a number of the posts on this thread.... if teaching is to be what people want it to be they need to fund and treat it with the importance that will bring the best people in. They expect perfection from a teacher...constant upgrading of skills (often at your expense)....fairly low pay....and abuse from all sides and you need to smile and take it..... Why not just be a computer programmer? More money with often less training. Here in the UK a sub teacher is paid at least $200+ a day and are expected to KNOW what they are doing. I can't believe how much silly paperwork they have to do as well. Ahhh well...time for me and my bad attitude to go hide on a golf course.

 

[Westernskies]

We had an eye-opener here. Dayton city schools are terrible. The unions and most in the school administration say money is the main problem (surprise!). So, along comes President Obama's "Race to the Top" program--a competition that awards funds to schools that make some reforms. Dayton's application was strong and the reforms were solid. Apparently, the application has to have signatures from school administrators and the teachers' union, and the Dayton teachers would not sign because of the accountability requirements. So--no money for Dayton. There has been some backpedalling of late, and the teachers might relent due to the tremendous public backlash. It's obvious that they have no idea of the fiscal reality outside of the public schools and are putting their interests ahead of the kids. It's also pretty clear that they've dealt a real blow to any prospects for school bond initiatives for a long time. The downward cycle continues, and the kids pay--and ultimately, when these kids try to find work and try to exercise their obligations as citizens, we'll all pay.

We've got some charter schools that are glimmers of hope in the bigger mess.

Hey, Samclem, I'm a product (K-6) of the Dayton Public School System and look how I turned out....

 

[Midpack]

I used to believe that. No more. Economic necessity and culture-enforced obligations severely curtail what we are "free" to do. Some mules just bear the yoke better than others. A few eventually break loose to run around the fields for a while....

No question it's harder/easier for some than others - but I can't think of any situation from which someone cannot make a change (except a situation that the individual got themselves into to start with, like being in prison as an extreme example). Can you?

We all have challenges and we all have options, albeit some harder and some easier...

 

[chinaco]

So what I have learned is that in some cases, the pension is a "trap", that forces you to do work that's not rewarding, so you can get the carrot.........

Maybe its not that great having a pension, unless you get the cheap or free healthcare that goes along with it..........

I am sticking around for another year for my pension (taking it early at a reduced amount). HC is included (for a premium). Of course, I would get the pension at 65 if I quit today, but that would be a decade later.

Look at it as a bonus. Would you stick around for another year or two to get a sizable bonus?

 

[HsiaoChu]

Hey, Samclem, I'm a product (K-6) of the Dayton Public School System and look how I turned out....

After all these years, you live in the state of confusion? Whereas, I live in the state of DeNile. At least I have a big river to swim in, as long as its not blood red season with Moses visiting.!

Z