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Old 03-06-2019, 05:26 AM   #21
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We had one just like that for 5 years, that finally left the company. It was common to witness red faced screaming, spitting and cursing on a regular basis, both in groups and individually. Also witnessed chest poking with his finger onto subordinates' chests.

This was reported to HR (HR was a victim several times) and all the way up the chain to the highest level. Because our numbers were always good, not one thing was ever done about it, so it continued. And yes, we had the classes, training, posters, value and ethics statements, etc. Means nothing.
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Old 03-06-2019, 05:28 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by flintnational View Post
I would document the cases of bullying and abuse that you personally have witnessed and report them to HR. If you believe the rumor should be investigated, I would also report this. HR can investigate. If you have verbally mentioned it to HR, but do not feel they have acted, put it in writing. A written complaint is a little harder to ignore and documents these issues. While they may or may not do anything at this point, it will strengthen the case if someone else comes forward with similar allegations in the future.
Yes. Get your own first-hand stuff (only) down in writing and filed with HR. If you are leaving in two months then it can probably wait until then (ask for an exit interview if it isn't standard). If possible, get the manager who takes your statement to sign it and keep a copy, as things sometimes get "lost".

Also, as you leave, let the other people from whom you have heard bad things about this guy know that (a) you have made that deposition, and (b) if things escalate in future (for example, if there is a complaint about this guy that leads to formal disciplinary proceedings) that you are prepared to come in and testify.
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Old 03-06-2019, 05:32 AM   #23
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Hahahaha, no retaliation, right. Want to buy a bridge?


OP should be planning her exit. The person who is the bad actor is highly likely to retaliate and is a member of a favored class so HR will tread very carefully around him. I don't see any good outcome on this one except moving on, hopefully to a better opportunity.
+1 unfortunately that's the way it works at many megacorps.
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Old 03-06-2019, 06:09 AM   #24
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Iím retiring anyway in less than two months. This is a company that begged ME to come back to work, twice. Iíve already had several heart to heart conversations with people up the line from him about the hostile environment. But this allegation is on a whole different level. Since I wasnít witness to it, Iím not in a good situation to report it.
It does take a degree of moxie to stand up when you should. You've done that already, and found that the wagons circled, and not much changed. I was involved in a situation like that. Eventually HR got involved as situations become more complicated, and untenable. I guess the surprise factor for those who suffer in these types of environments is that it takes time for a real case to develop. When the individual has power, or friends in important places, the punishment may look like a vacation to others.
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Old 03-06-2019, 06:13 AM   #25
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Iím retiring anyway in less than two months. This is a company that begged ME to come back to work, twice. Iíve already had several heart to heart conversations with people up the line from him about the hostile environment. But this allegation is on a whole different level. Since I wasnít witness to it, Iím not in a good situation to report it.
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You are still obligated to report it, right?
That is policy in most companies. I think what the list of actors don't fully comprehend is where some of these situations go when the buck gets passed.
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Old 03-06-2019, 07:07 AM   #26
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Iím retiring anyway in less than two months. This is a company that begged ME to come back to work, twice. Iíve already had several heart to heart conversations with people up the line from him about the hostile environment. But this allegation is on a whole different level. Since I wasnít witness to it, Iím not in a good situation to report it.
Since you weren't a witness to this, if it was me, I'd just leave alone without a first hand account.

Plus, you are retiring in less than two months (congrats!). That can be viewed in two ways. One, you'd be gone anyhow, so the chaos is for those suckers left behind to deal with. Two, without a first hand account, that may be perceived by some as a parting shot by you.
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Old 03-06-2019, 07:39 AM   #27
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From everything you have said for a couple of years, this is not a nice place to work. If you don't need the last two months of income, why put yourself through this? I personally would call corporate and tell them you are giving them two weeks notice. When they ask why, tell them you will not tolerate this individual's behavior and that if it continues, you may choose to walk out the door at the moment it occurs. Then document everything that has happened in writing, and send it to everyone in the chain at 5 PM on your last day.

If they choose to keep this practice manager, let them live with the consequences. Not your circus...
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Old 03-06-2019, 07:40 AM   #28
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Unless you have been either a victim yourself or an actual witness to it, then you have nothing to report.

Even your younger colleague has nothing to report. "The grapevine" is not evidence, and being a jerk is not a crime.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't counsel your colleague to remain vigilant, but advancing hearsay as a complaint is more likely to make things worse.

The only person who seems to have a real complaint is the medical student who might - or might not - have been stalked. I do not believe the company will casually dismiss a complaint because the boss is "their guy"; they are more likely to investigate it and find that as of today there isn't any proof of wrongdoing.

It isn't fair to anyone, even the unpopular current medical director, to spread accusations without foundation. Please gather facts before deciding to press a charge of misconduct.

+2

If you are dealing with medical students/residents doesn't your institution do exit surveys on all learners regarding harassment/intimidation/sexually inappropriate behaviors. Mine does and I thought that this was an accreditation standard. These are done anonymously and if there is nothing there then it seems unlikely that there is particularly bad behavior going on. If you feel obligated then it would seem that you are in a good position to do some investigative work. You are a respected, female member of the team which should make it easy for you to reach out to former students and residents and ask them general questions about the atmosphere and behaviors without mentioning any names. I don't know what your HR is like but I know that the teaching institutions that I have worked for take the matter deadly serious. I would be very reluctant to submit anything to HR that was through 'the grapevine' given that there are so many ways for learners to directly report things.

As above, 'being a jerk' is not a crime... but in a life and death team setting perhaps it should have repercussions and I would definitely consider reporting your own experiences as a pattern of behavior could warrant some kind of action/intervention. Sorry for your situation.
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Old 03-06-2019, 07:45 AM   #29
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You’ve reported what you’ve personally experienced to HR. That’s all you can do reporting wise. Encourage the employee that experienced the stalking incident to report it. That’s all you can do on that issue. Support your colleagues as best you can while you are there. Stay safe while you are there and report any further incidents that happen to you.

Most important, lay low for a couple months and leave as scheduled. Time to focus on your next adventure. Don’t let this or anything else derail your plans. Move on and enjoy the rest of your life.
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Old 03-06-2019, 07:53 AM   #30
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It's a sticky wicket. Many victims of DV and/or stalking behavior will be the first to tell you following someone even to their home is not a crime. So you can't involve the police.

My advice would be to continue to complain loudly both verbally and in writing about every bit of abusive behavior you actually see and are subjected to. Every little thing so there is a long written record with HR. If his behaviors continue any individual coming after you will have plenty of ammo when they have had enough and decide to sue the sucker or the employer. One thing I didn't notice is if the behavior is directed at everyone or females only.

Leave a long paper trail and encourage everyone else to follow your example. I know they have fears for their careers and/or jobs but in this case there is probably safety in numbers..
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Old 03-06-2019, 08:03 AM   #31
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I worked in HR for a large ambulance co in Chicago suburbs. We had many files of complaints similar to yours and they were thick files. For any action to be done, there has to be several if not many individuals coming forward with specific and personal experience with the bully/predator. The company has to protect itself. Predator can sue if the claims are not backed up with evidence/proof and more than one experience.

One file (this was many years ago) a couple had a relationship that was not well known. Relationships (sexual) are frowned upon. Retaliation, for whatever reason, jealousy or being dumped or one was married...list is long. One partner might start rumors about the other. To avoid a long post, it gets complicated and has to be methodically investigated. This takes time.

Also and example, I think a bully is someone who challenges my opinion, interrupts me, laughs at my ideas, ignores me when I talk to them...on and on. Another thinks sexual harassment is touching on the shoulder or complimenting a dress.

I would share my concern with HR, but don't expect them to do much unless there's loads of evidence. There are people who are complainers and feel imposed upon for insignificant things. I"m in no way saying your post is insignificant.
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Old 03-06-2019, 08:08 AM   #32
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We had one just like that for 5 years, that finally left the company. It was common to witness red faced screaming, spitting and cursing on a regular basis, both in groups and individually. Also witnessed chest poking with his finger onto subordinates' chests.

This was reported to HR (HR was a victim several times) and all the way up the chain to the highest level. Because our numbers were always good, not one thing was ever done about it, so it continued. And yes, we had the classes, training, posters, value and ethics statements, etc. Means nothing.
We had a long-time, highly-respected engineer who did the chest-poking thing once. The recipient reported it to HR, and the engineer was escorted out the door that same day. He had a reputation for being zealous about various issues, but his behavior had always been tolerated, even generally regarded as informative and entertaining. The poking was over the top, though. Many companies now days are pretty serious about "no physical contact".

A few other employees at my company are known for being verbally abusive. One guy, another long-time, highly-respected engineer, got laid off, which shocked everyone because he was an icon in the industry and highly valuable to the company. He eventually got hired back. Another, a female manager, is still there, mean as ever. I know of at least two employees who have filed complaints against her, but no details about any disciplinary actions are known.
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Old 03-06-2019, 08:42 AM   #33
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It's a sticky wicket. Many victims of DV and/or stalking behavior will be the first to tell you following someone even to their home is not a crime. So you can't involve the police.

My advice would be to continue to complain loudly both verbally and in writing about every bit of abusive behavior you actually see and are subjected to. Every little thing so there is a long written record with HR. If his behaviors continue any individual coming after you will have plenty of ammo when they have had enough and decide to sue the sucker or the employer. One thing I didn't notice is if the behavior is directed at everyone or females only.

Leave a long paper trail and encourage everyone else to follow your example. I know they have fears for their careers and/or jobs but in this case there is probably safety in numbers..


+1

You have power and opportunity that medical students do not have. As a respected, experienced member of the organization, you have more clout with HR. You also are in a situation where you do not have to worry about retaliation.

Anything that you can do to get HR to change the bullyís behavior or make him face the consequences of his behavior will benefit anyone who has to work with him for the rest of his career. If heís only 40, he might have thirty years left to negatively affect anyone who has the misfortune to work with him. If you have the chance to prevent that, I say itís worth doing.

If he bullies fellow M.D.s, I shudder to think how he treats RNs and office staff.
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Old 03-06-2019, 09:24 AM   #34
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As one who spent most of his career in management and executive management, here is what I suggest:

As others have said, absent a "smoking gun" any report to HR would be hard for them to follow up. The exception would be if they had received multiple other reports. That said, it is very hard for management to detect and deal with bad supervisors. The very nature of the situation tends to make it a he-said/she-said scenario and managment's first reaction (BTDT) is to give the supervisor the benefit of the doubt. So your frustration with management taking no action is what I would have predicted. Management really needs a preponderance of evidence, not just a reasonable doubt as to the supervisor's behavior.

So start a log. Dates, times, and names of what you see and what you are told. Be detailed and thorough. Start with the terrified resident story, add other past situations where you were bullied or others told you about bullying or stalking. Then start logging current events just like a diary. Sure, some of it will be hearsay. That's OK.

Assuming the situations continue to occur, your log will build into a significant listing of issues over a period of time/months maybe. When you leave or when you decide that the problem is significant enough/unbearable, hand-deliver copies to both the head of HR and to this medical director's boss. If they are not in the same town with you, strongly consider making a trip. Your presence will add weight to your case.
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Old 03-06-2019, 09:41 AM   #35
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Agree with those who said you need to document specific incidents which you have experienced and observed, and report those.

In addition, to be blunt, be VERY careful of discussing or passing along he said/she said type items in this situation, even if you think you are helping someone... he can easily turn this around and use it to accuse you and others of racism, which the company may fear worse without concrete proof of his actions.
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Old 03-06-2019, 09:59 AM   #36
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I'd keep my pie hole shut. At least until an exit interview. You worked too hard to have it blow up on you with some sort of back fire from this guy. Especially since you know the upper levels of management do not have your back.
Your co workers are all adults and can take care of themselves. They do not need you to be the hero for them. If they are concerned, then they can darn well take care of business themselves or quit their complaining and griping about this guy.

Personally, when I've been subjected to any of what you described, I shout it from the mountain top at the very first instance. Waiting until it's unbearable usually looks petty as it seems you are over reacting on just the straw that broke the camel's back without all the backstory and history that leads up to it.

Enjoy your retirement! Sounds like you earned it.
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Old 03-06-2019, 10:14 AM   #37
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IMO this is very thorny. Going right to worst outcome: What if something comes out about him (see all the news stories where people have been ousted for predatory behavior) and someone says you were told about him and did nothing? Would you be considered complicit and possibly a lawsuit target? I would get it on his record that you have heard things--let HR carry it from there.
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Old 03-06-2019, 10:28 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by EastWest Gal View Post
I’m retiring anyway in less than two months. This is a company that begged ME to come back to work, twice. I’ve already had several heart to heart conversations with people up the line from him about the hostile environment. But this allegation is on a whole different level. Since I wasn’t witness to it, I’m not in a good situation to report it.
Two things come to mind.... if he bullys you or someone else in your presence... get in his face very assertively that he is a bully and is bullying and that you and others are not going to stand for it anymore and if he continues it will be reported... you have nothing to lose... what's he going to do... fire you? I'm guessing that like many bullys he can dish it out be he can't take it.

Second, think of the person that you know that is highest in the organization that you have a good relationship with and might actually do something and have a confidential chat with them about this bully.

Or alternatively, quit now and when they ask why tell them or serve the rest of your two months and quietly leave.
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Old 03-06-2019, 10:42 AM   #39
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OP, I don't really know your situation, so what I will state might not apply. I am in a teaching position (college level). If a student tells me that he/she is the subject of sexual harassment or is in fear of something happening to them, I am legally obligated to report it.
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Old 03-06-2019, 12:17 PM   #40
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IRRC for CA (and other States?), if a person in management position hears about sexual harassment and does not report, the person can be personally responsible/liable for future lawsuits. But it's been 3+ years since my retirement and my memory of mega corp days (where we are train on such legal topic once every two years) have been fading pretty fast. Hence, my two previous replies on this thread has been "report" to cover the OP's behind at the least.
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