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Bad Job Situation
Old 04-14-2010, 09:10 PM   #1
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Bad Job Situation

Hi Everyone - I am currently in a bad job situation and could use some advice. At the ripe age of 50 and after 18 years of employement at the same company, I find myself dealing with very poor management and a total avoidance from upper management to address ongoing conflicts from one individual. 3 years ago a new VP was brought into my department. This company has always stood for "Pleasing People", but this new VP does not understand a culture such as this. She has such poor people skills and continues to degrade all of those around her. She reports to a SVP that has been around for 30 years and I believe is just waiting out his retirement. I have attempted to discuss with him the issues that I have seen... I have now been labled as not being a team player and negative. I have given up. I am planning of handing in my notice in September. I want to wait for the annual bonus pay-out. I have worked hard, earned high marks on all evaluations for many years, been recognized as a top performer but this situation is more than I am willing to take any longer. I guess my question is how do I get through the next several months with out killing someone?
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Old 04-14-2010, 11:37 PM   #2
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I was in the same situation during my last two years on the job. The only thing that allowed me to endure it was constant focus on my progress toward FIRE. Though you may be shackled to a monster, with every hour you work you silently gather the resources that will buy you a one-way ticket out of H*ll.

With only four months to go, you should be able to make it.
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Old 04-15-2010, 03:20 AM   #3
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I was in the same situation in my previous job. It was so bad that the immediete reports to the individual all left except me. I had to hang on to the job because I was not ready to for early retirement financially and did not want to leave the firm as I liked the firm (you see, people usually don't leave because of the firm but because of bad managers). To maintain my sanity, I just changed my attitude and built a wall when it comes to interacting with the individual (mostly avoid her and be slow to respond when it comes to her) but to everyone else and my work, I still maintained a high professionalism. I can tell you no one (not even myself) profits from this strategy as a long term thing, but should help you over a few months. I got lucky as a headhunter called during that time and I left the firm for another. Turned out it was a better firm in terms of a new boss and the jump in remuneration which helped me to fast forward my early retirement - which will be soon!
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Old 04-15-2010, 07:20 AM   #4
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A few years ago I was in a similarly awful position with an evil manager -- the problem was he was at the very top of the organizational food chain! I was ready to quit, and almost did, but he had arranged things so it would look very bad and reflect poorly on my professionalism if I did. But from the day that I decided to stay, I kept a spreadsheet keeping track of every cent I was earning by staying one day longer. I also tracked paid time off. I scheduled periodic days off as a sanity-saving measure. I worked out my transition strategy, and when I knew my escape raft was pulling up alongside me in the form of an offer that would support me for at least 6 months, I sent in my resignation. In the meantime I had finished up the major projects I had been assigned, both of which were considerable accomplishments, so I left on a high note. There were days when the spreadsheet was the only thing I had to motivate me. It was a pretty sucky 6 months or so, but it did put us in a great financial position and also allowed me to keep my professional reputation (and some important relationships) intact.

Good luck. Bad managers really suck....

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Old 04-15-2010, 09:01 AM   #5
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I'm in a similar work situation, but have a longer time to endure. Focusing on how staying these extra few months enhances your financial situation rather than focusing on the work situation, might be helpful. Another approach is to constantly remind yourself "that you're a shorttimer", i.e. you're not trapped in this job forever. I do this a lot whenever my workplace environment becomes too toxic.

The kickbully.com website might also be useful. It has a number of practical approaches that can be used to survive working with bosses who denigrate their employees. Another option is to just go to your family physican and get some "happy" pills. Short-time use of medication that gets you through a rough patch in a job is a viable strategy.
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Old 04-15-2010, 09:15 AM   #6
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Hi Everyone - I am currently in a bad job situation and could use some advice. At the ripe age of 50 and after 18 years of employement at the same company, I find myself dealing with very poor management and a total avoidance from upper management to address ongoing conflicts from one individual. 3 years ago a new VP was brought into my department. This company has always stood for "Pleasing People", but this new VP does not understand a culture such as this. She has such poor people skills and continues to degrade all of those around her. She reports to a SVP that has been around for 30 years and I believe is just waiting out his retirement. I have attempted to discuss with him the issues that I have seen... I have now been labled as not being a team player and negative. I have given up. I am planning of handing in my notice in September. I want to wait for the annual bonus pay-out. I have worked hard, earned high marks on all evaluations for many years, been recognized as a top performer but this situation is more than I am willing to take any longer. I guess my question is how do I get through the next several months with out killing someone?
You get tough, focus on your paycheck, and remember your retirement goal.

Accept that you cannot change people (such as your new VP) and that it is in your best interest to lie low until you can leave this job. Try doing a count-down - - perhaps today you have 180 days left, tomorrow 179, and so on.
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Old 04-15-2010, 10:21 AM   #7
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Wow, I am getting flashbacks from kickbully.com. This was my daily nightmare until last month: kickbully - where your fight begins
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Old 04-15-2010, 11:05 AM   #8
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Wow, I am getting flashbacks from kickbully.com. This was my daily nightmare until last month: kickbully - where your fight begins
Yeah, me too brewer. I remember looking at sites like this when I was working for a horrible boss. It took me a long time to recover from the bullying and degrading treatment I endured.

In reality, I should thank her for being such an unbearable boss. This caused me to get my financial house in order and pull the plug. I rarely have work related nightmares anymore....
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Old 04-15-2010, 11:16 AM   #9
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In reality, I should thank her for being such an unbearable boss. This caused me to get my financial house in order and pull the plug. I rarely have work related nightmares anymore....
A friend of mine endured a "boss from Hell" late in her career. Like your situation, he was the catalyst leading to her early semi-retirement and greatly improved quality of life.

During the 2-3 years she suffered working for him, she often said she wished he was dead - not something she would say under any but the most extreme circumstances. She was beyond miserable working for him.

Less than a year after she retired he drowned while on a family vacation. She's convinced one of his teenage sons took matters into his own hands...
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Old 04-15-2010, 11:18 AM   #10
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Wow, I am getting flashbacks from kickbully.com. This was my daily nightmare until last month: kickbully - where your fight begins
Wow, this reads like the supervisor's manual on "How to Be a Leader" from my employer.
Quote:
  1. Widespread anger and frustration
  2. Workplace bully is admired
  3. Scapegoats are always blamed
  4. Dysfunctional relationships
  5. Dysfunctional meetings
  6. Obvious hypocrisy
  7. Overly restrictive systems
  8. Incompetent or powerless HR manager
There are two quotes that I will always remember from my career. The one that I heard the first day in the police academy: "If you don't like the way we do things here, don't let the door slap you in the ass on the way out the door."

And the second from my first day as a supervisor. The guy training me was explaining how we handed out an unpleasant assignment that nobody wanted to do, and to prepare myself for complaints. I asked him if there was a rotation system so that everyone got stuck with it on a fair basis. He looked at me like I was a child and said, "No, you usually just pick whoever you want to f*%k with that day."
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I guess my question is how do I get through the next several months with out killing someone?
It wasn't always a horror show where I worked, but there were places and times when somebody could be targeted for extermination by some vindictive boss who was toxic. My outlook was to not engage in trying to win the fight - because as a subordinate the deck is stacked against you. Taking complaints to the big boss seldom works because they tend to identify with, and support their immediate reports (your boss) over anyone else. Besides, unless you're really good at playing the game, the toxic boss usually is a master at it and you're at a disadvantage.

If you get tough, keep yourself out of the line of fire, and can hold on for a while - you have to consider the possibilities that your boss might get promoted or transferred in the near future. Sucks for the poor people that he will be inflicted upon, but if you can hang tough for a while you might get back to normality. Bosses come and go all the time.

If that's not likely to happen, just concentrate on the truth. He's a miserable prick because he's rotten to the core and very unhappy with his life - and he can't stand to see anyone around him any less miserable than he is. Or he's an unprincipled bastard who would throw his mom under the wheels of the bus if it made him look good. Whatever his motivations, don't let him make your life miserable. Don't show weakness, don't let him know he is getting under your skin - stay calm and remember what's important in life. And other than a paycheck, there is nothing important going on at work. The important stuff is waiting at home, kids who love you, spouse who loves you, or, if you don't have those things in your life- there's always the dog or your goldfish.

During my last year I was in the maelstrom of politics and I got hit by some flak from about five different directions. It bothered me a bit at first, but then I realized - "in a year none of this is crap or these people are going to matter, because I am sooo out-of-here." I used to draw pictures of sailboats (and dream of sailing in retirement) on my notepad during meetings, or I would endlessly calculate how much bigger my pension was today than it was the day before. Whatever it takes to keep focused on the things that are good and right in your life - that's what you do.

Your real life is not at work, it's out there waiting for you to reconnect with it.
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Old 04-15-2010, 11:37 AM   #11
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If that's not likely to happen, just concentrate on the truth. He's a miserable prick because he's rotten to the core and very unhappy with his life - and he can't stand to see anyone around him any less miserable than he is. Or he's an unprincipled bastard who would throw his mom under the wheels of the bus if it made him look good. Whatever his motivations, don't let him make your life miserable. Don't show weakness, don't let him know he is getting under your skin - stay calm and remember what's important in life. And other than a paycheck, there is nothing important going on at work. The important stuff is waiting at home, kids who love you, spouse who loves you, or, if you don't have those things in your life- there's always the dog or your goldfish.
During my last year I was in the maelstrom of politics and I got hit by some flak from about five different directions. It bothered me a bit at first, but then I realized - "in a year none of this is crap or these people are going to matter, because I am sooo out-of-here." I used to draw pictures of sailboats (and dream of sailing in retirement) on my notepad during meetings, or I would endlessly calculate how much bigger my pension was today than it was the day before. Whatever it takes to keep focused on the things that are good and right in your life - that's what you do.
Your real life is not at work, it's out there waiting for you to reconnect with it.
Absolutely.

TM, however desperately the bad boss deserves whatever you're in a position to deal out-- it's just not worth the indictment, the trial, or the jail time. A year from now you want to be able to look back on this situation and say to yourself "Well, that was no fun, but I feel kinda sorry for the poor boss bastard."

I had one of those bosses twice. The first time was truly awful but he left after about 15 months. The second time we were both eight years older, but I was smarter and he was in terrible mental/physical shape. I'd like to think that karma had been chewing on him for most of a decade, and I actually felt a little sorry for the guy. I avoided him to the maximum extent legally possible and retired about a year after he showed up.
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Old 04-15-2010, 11:58 AM   #12
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Man, I just remembered the most toxic guy of them all. He was briefly my boss when I was working for the fed as a task-force supervisor. Half the supervisors were feds from his agency but the rest were state & local cops like me.

Before he showed up we knew his reputation - he was the kind of guy who got personally offended if his subordinates disagreed with him about any of his less-than-brilliant ideas. Sometimes he would blow up, and actually threaten the offending party in the meeting. "Let's go out in the parking garage and I'll kick your ass!"

Apparently nobody had ever taken him up on his offer. Most likely because of the career consequences because there wasn't much to fear physically from the guy.

Those of us who were his new subordinates, but didn't work for his agency, were eagerly awaiting the challenge.

About the third meeting into his tenure the guy started to lose his temper because my colleague, a DPS captain, had told him his suggestions on an op plan were stupid and going to get someone killed. As opposed to the average fed, all real cops know how to fight. And in this state the DPS cadets fight an hour a day for four months in their academy (they call it "boxing" but it's really just brawling with gloves and headgear). There is not a one of them who gets intimidated by a threat to fight.

So, as the new boss was winding himself up, turning all red in the face and spewing some really stupid comments, my buddy was quietly taking off his ring, watch and tie before he started to roll up his shirt sleeves. All the rest of us were pushing our chairs away from the table to get out of the way, and the boss finally snapped to what was happening. He stopped talking and started looking around with a look of curiosity on his face. After a moment or two of silence, my colleague looked at him and said "Ain't you going to ask me out to the garage?"

The guy never lost his cool in a meeting with us again. He transferred quickly, and he resumed his old bad habits with those guys, but he maintained his composure during his tenure with us, because he knew at least half his employees were dying for the chance to go out to the garage with him.

And that's one way to deal with bosses who are bullies.
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Old 04-15-2010, 01:21 PM   #13
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Old 04-15-2010, 05:49 PM   #14
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Been there. What are the chances the VP will move on? Maybe you can wait her out.
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Old 04-15-2010, 07:53 PM   #15
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Wow what are he chances we work in the same place?

I used to go partially into turtle mode. Pull your head in, pick the battles you need to win and just wait the guy out. These people always do move on.

Right now on the cusp of my 52'nd birthday, I don't have the desire to wait these guys out anymore.

I used to hold fast to the phrases, "Storms never last" and "Pressure makes diamonds", but they don't have any meaning for me anymore.
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Old 04-15-2010, 08:17 PM   #16
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WOW! Thanks everyone for all of the advice. The VP is out of the office for 10 days on a trip to China - so much better in the office, but the emails keep coming! I was asked by the SVP to put together a process to solve an issue that we have been dealing with for a while that directly involves many of the VP's direct reports. She blasted an email back today. Such a control freak. She and I both report directly to the SVP, but I work closely with her on a daily basis.
I wish I could out last her and stay with the company. I have enjoyed working here for many years, but afterthese past 3 years, I don't see her leaving or being escorted out.
It believe in the saying "Some people quit and leave, some people quit and stay." I will not be the latter. I have too much self respect. I have been counting the weeks until I can get out. When we are working on a project that will happen months from now - I get excited knowing that I won't be here when all this happens!! Yeah Me! 22 weeks sounds like a long to to endure all of this nonsense, but 22 weeks ago was only Nov. - that seems like yesterday. I know I can hold in there. Thanks again. Keep the advice coming.
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Old 04-15-2010, 08:22 PM   #17
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Wow what are he chances we work in the same place?

I used to go partially into turtle mode. Pull your head in, pick the battles you need to win and just wait the guy out. These people always do move on.

Right now on the cusp of my 52'nd birthday, I don't have the desire to wait these guys out anymore.

I used to hold fast to the phrases, "Storms never last" and "Pressure makes diamonds", but they don't have any meaning for me anymore.
Are you looking to get out as well? Like you, I thought I could out last it all. The collateral damage this one person is causing is amazing. I'm not the only one looking to get out of my department. Most people have just shut down and trying to stay out of the line of fire.
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Old 04-15-2010, 08:36 PM   #18
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It believe in the saying "Some people quit and leave, some people quit and stay." I will not be the latter. I have too much self respect. I have been counting the weeks until I can get out. When we are working on a project that will happen months from now - I get excited knowing that I won't be here when all this happens!! Yeah Me! 22 weeks sounds like a long to to endure all of this nonsense, but 22 weeks ago was only Nov. - that seems like yesterday. I know I can hold in there. Thanks again. Keep the advice coming.
To each his own, I guess. But I was also in an extremely toxic work environment for most of the last few years of my career. I finally got tired of beating my head against the wall and "retired in place". It saved my sanity. I developed the ability to laugh at the stupidity, let the BS roll off my back, and pick and choose what I accomplished and what I ignored. By regaining my mental health, I was able to take advantage of an opportunity to change positions within the company, spend my last two years actually accomplishing positive work, and ROTFL as my old management imploded. In the process, I did have to leave a job I actually really liked, but as I discovered, a great job with crappy management sucks, while a mediocre job with good management is just fine.

So don't disregard the "quit and stay" option. In your case the time is so short it shouldn't matter at all. There's probably very little you can accomplish in 22 weeks that will matter to you in a year or two, anyway.
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Old 04-16-2010, 12:35 AM   #19
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My advice is to read the Dilbert cartoons daily and remind yourself that things could be worse. On many days that's my sole entertainment at work. At least know you are not alone in your suffering.

The official Dilbert website with Scott Adams' color comic strips, animation, mashups and more!.
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The rules....
Old 04-16-2010, 08:42 AM   #20
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The rules....

Over the course of my career I discovered that there are 7 rules for working in a bureaucracy. Having worked in one of the most entrenched kind of bureaucracies, a public school (because teachers have tenure and can't be fired except through a long drawn out process over two years), if you don't follow the rules then bad bosses become nightmares, and nightmares become the Spawn and Son of Satan competing with siblings to out do each other.

I should say that I got these rules by BREAKING EVERY DAM ONE OF THEM BY ACCIDENT, AND SUFFERING THE CONSEQUENCES. So after about 20 years of violating them I began to make notes, and gradually they evolved into my rules. Please don't steal them. I might write a book about them some day.


In order to avoid a huge post, I will post my tome in installments.

Rule 1:

1. Each employee’s immediate superior is ALWAYS RIGHT.

a. Any action which might in anyway violate any of the Seven
rules of bureaucracy must be discussed thoroughly with
the superior so that the action doesn’t cause him/her to be in violation of these rules.

b. NO Management officials above your line level are
your friends.
In any circumstance, social or in the organization,
you are always a subordinate.

(1) Don’t expect, no matter how friendly they
appear, that they will treat you as friends when push
comes to shove. Management MUST always close ranks
to those below. To do otherwise is a violation of the
Seven Rules.

(2) Don’t expect that if you can call a management official by their first name, that this changes the circumstance of Rule 1b. In fact, being able to do so intensifies the expectation of management to believe that the Seven Rules are in force. It is actually a MINOR version of Rule 3b below, and sets up an unwritten contractual relationship between management and the employee.

(3) Management does not socialize with employees under
their management level, except at organizational functions or organizational social functions, such as the annual Christmas Party or a Retirement Dinner. The only exception is a church function or some other organization where the Seven Rules are in force for that organization. Any mention of the organization or reference where you are a subordinate is TABOO. For example, if you are a subordinate in an organization, but you both are in the US Army Reserves, and you are a higher rank there, that organization’s Seven Rules predominate while you are there. No mention may be made of any other relationship. This is doubly important if either of you are in a reversed role where in one organization you are management and your manager is not, and in the other organization this is reversed.

To do so is a clear violation of the Seven Rules which clearly separate management from those who are not management. Even if you were a friend of someone who has gone into management, you are no longer their friend as long as you still continue to work in the organization. Until you’ve retired or moved to another organization or moved into management, you have lost that friendship.

(4) Once a person is in management, they will always feel that they are in management, and will follow the management rules. Even if the individual is not in management anymore, they will still act like they are.


c. Once a management decision is made, those under that level
cannot disagree or even suggest that the decision was in
anyway inappropriate. Violation of this sub-rule is called
insubordination which is one of the most severe violations
of the Seven Rules that can be made.
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