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Old 08-11-2016, 08:35 AM   #41
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Get your employment contract looked at by a lawyer. Most non-compete clauses are unenforceable, as they can't take away your ability to make a living.
^ This x1000. It could very well be the best couple hundred bucks you could spend. As stated, they are difficult to enforce and thus most companies won't waste their time trying to do so...they are slowing falling out of favor since they are so difficult to enforce.

As to your DW's thoughts...well, only you know your DW but *if* my DW had issues with me being retired (and basically I get brow beaten to go back to w*rk) then I am going to have quite a bit of resentment and that will make life very unpleasant for both of us.
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Old 08-11-2016, 09:10 AM   #42
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Get some more numbers together and just show them to her without any pressure.Does she love her job? At 14 your kids need driving everywhere and lots of supervision, offer to take that over along with a bigger share of the housework. Maybe she could try working for a year or 2 and see how she feels about it then. College is fine but both of you quitting now would give you much quality time with kids...14 YO girls are entering a rough stage. It might make a huge difference in the peacefulness of your life. Instead of making it about money and being "bored" emphasis the positive difference it could make with your kids last 4 years at home.
I think this is a great answer, one that DW and I explore all the time and I think she's onboard with. I may retire in three years, and do the SAHD thing (which is a well-paying position in itself!) while she continues doing the work she loves. Her income along with my pension will more than meet our requirements allowing our stash to grow (albeit with much less going directly in).

I think I'd try to discuss the value of you not working if she wants to continue and see if that arrangement works. If it does, she may quickly tire of leaving every morning and be more open to the idea of ER herself.
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Old 08-11-2016, 10:15 AM   #43
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Get your employment contract looked at by a lawyer. Most non-compete clauses are unenforceable, as they can't take away your ability to make a living.
+1
Unless you are working in a very unique arena, the two year restriction is almost all you need to make the non-compete unenforceable.
Worked many years in executive search and most contracts we saw were not enforceable and the prior employer waived any rights. You have not shared a location but in California, I believe they have ruled that only senior management is bound by a noncompete
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Old 08-11-2016, 10:34 AM   #44
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Maybe DW would feel more comfortable if you were to purchase a fixed income annuity or deferred income annuity, and thereby achieve "certainty" of a future income stream rather than being at the mercy of the stock market?
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Old 08-11-2016, 05:54 PM   #45
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Math is math, and pretty straightforward.
Responsible budgeting involves allocating a certain amount to reserves, and what is a comfortable cushion for one person may not be for another. However, if the OP points out that not only is every known unknown covered, but there is a substantial reserve for unknown unknowns, then perhaps he will make some headway.
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Old 08-13-2016, 10:40 AM   #46
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I don't buy it. Insisting that a spouse work when they don't need to is coercive and corrosive to the relationship. The OP is supposed to suck it up and be unhappy until he gets permission to do what makes him happy so his wife doesn't have to go though the hard work of understanding their true financial position. Were the sexes reversed in this discussion, I think the guy would be seen as a bully.
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Old 08-13-2016, 11:55 AM   #47
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Thanks to all for the advice. More details:

Girls college is completely funded. I am of the philosophy: one car, one degree, one wedding. If they want more than that, they can pay for it (or at least think that way. They have no idea (and I'm not telling them) that they will likely inherit enough money to allow them to be beach bums if they choose to for the rest of their lives).

I am confident that our financial situation can allow us to RE now, but DW is a doesn't trust the stock market. We have been going over the numbers and having the same discussion with the same outcome for over a year now.

I worked part time for a few years and really enjoyed having more "me" time and time to do all the things around the house that needed to be done (which now consume my weekends). Unfortunately, my job situation had a big shake-up about a year ago and now I am back full time without an option to go back part time. My non-compete clause prohibits me from finding part time work elsewhere in my area for two years, should I leave the organization.

Last, DW thinks I will be bored in retirement. I'm not worried about that and have many interests/hobbies outside of work.
I retired when my child turned 7 years old. I have a decent traditional pension (enough to get by one) for which I made my child my joint annuitant (in case something happened to me). In addition, I had (have) an investment portfolio. Between the two, I decided it was good enough to provide for my child.

I had many people whom I worked with tell me they couldn't believe that I would give up my J*b given college years ahead. My response was that if I were to wait until college was completed, that was another 13 or so years! No way since I was FIRE ready.

Part of the reason for retiring was that I was traveling a lot. I would be home only about half the time, and I felt I was missing out on my child's growing up. About six months after I left work, my child developed a serious unknown GI related illness. I am extremely thankful that I was home during this time and able to devote a lot of time and effort on it. [He is much better now.]

Since then, I've gone back to work, but not because I had to. I started teaching part time at a local college, and since then have gone to full time. I love being home, get to spend a lot of time with my child, but part of the reason in going full time (besides the health care) is to try and instill work values.

One suggestion I would have if your spouse is retirement shy due to not trusting the stock market: Divest some of the assets into cash equivalents, enough to provide 2-3 years of expenses. While this many lower your long term returns, the cash safety net will help your souse (and you) sleep better at night when the next rough downturn comes (and it will). I left my j*b in the midst of the great recession of 2009. It was only the cash flow from my pension PLUS a couple years worth of expenses (w/o the pension) in cash & equivalents (some great Penfed CD's at the time) that gave me the confidence to go for it even though my portfolio was getting whacked daily. (In fact, I was buying equities during the Spring of 2009.)
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Old 08-15-2016, 11:07 AM   #48
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Well my wife has had 30 years to protest my plans (that is how long I have been saying I plan to retire at 55!). When she finally about 3 years ago said "You are really going to do this? Show me the math." I had my summary spreadsheet ready to go. She then said she wanted to hire an FA to review my plan, which we did, just met with him the second time last week. He has made some good recommendations (and yes, he is for fee, doesn't get a % of anything).

Sadly I will no quite make my goal of retiring at 55. Due to megacorp re-structuring and severance packages, my job is gone at the end of the year and I will retire one month before my 55th birthday..... ;-)

But regarding the OP's DW's concerns, you simply can't plan for all the "unknowns". IMO retirement planning must be able to address the "expected", allow for adjustments should things change, and perhaps be a little "fat" in case of the unexpected. But you simply can't predict and plan for everything.
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Old 08-15-2016, 11:39 AM   #49
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I don't buy it. Insisting that a spouse work when they don't need to is coercive and corrosive to the relationship. The OP is supposed to suck it up and be unhappy until he gets permission to do what makes him happy so his wife doesn't have to go though the hard work of understanding their true financial position. Were the sexes reversed in this discussion, I think the guy would be seen as a bully.
I don't agree, now there have been posters where the guy has the only job and his spouse has never worked outside the home and taken the position that he can't retire and join her at home. This borders on abusive and bullying.

In this case they both work and contribute and the spouse is uneasy about them suddenly pulling the plug.Continue to talk and give her some time to adjust to the situation,sometimes fear of the unknown can override numbers on a sheet of paper. Another 6 or 12 months of work by the OP while they talk things over isn't unreasonable IMO. After all his wife is still showing up for work everyday too.
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Old 08-15-2016, 12:31 PM   #50
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I don't agree........
You have the right to be wrong.
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Old 08-15-2016, 12:41 PM   #51
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"We have been going over the numbers and having the same discussion with the same outcome for over a year now."


So NOT suddenly pulling the plug. How much time in enough notice to your partner?
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Old 08-15-2016, 01:06 PM   #52
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After a year she had time to adjust and I would retire and let her decide if she wants to keep working or not. None of us know how much time we have left.
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Old 08-15-2016, 01:24 PM   #53
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In the course of a lifetime commitment and raising a family a year isn't a really long time. But if the OP has shared the financials openly and has talked over the pros and cons, I think just saying I'm sorry you're still not completely comfortable with it, but I'm planning on retiring on my next birthday or Jan 1 or whatever date, and I'm certain we'll be fine.Feel free to follow me anytime you want to. Maybe the spouse has a serious case of OMY and will always want OMY until she has finally had enough.
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Old 08-15-2016, 01:25 PM   #54
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You have the right to be wrong.
Good thing we aren't a couple
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Old 08-21-2016, 08:31 AM   #55
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Is it even remotely possible that your DW has some valid concerns? I think the two of you need to sit down and figure this out. No wishful thinking allowed! Math is math, and pretty straightforward. Both of you sound like intelligent, competent people. Surely you can go through the numbers together and come to some sort of agreement.Marriage is a team effort. Time to pull together as a team.
Good advice.

Just because one financial advisor says you are good to go doesn't necessarily make it so. For a decision of this magnitude you need to really crunch the numbers.

Do something like this: keep track of all your actual expenses for at least six months (12 would be better). Then add in, say, 20% extra to cover unforeseen contingencies. Cross check the monthly or annual figure against your respective passive income stream: which you can reduce by 20% to guard against a possible stock market crash, dividend cuts, etc.

If the above exercise confirms the advisor's opinion, presumably the evidence - including the built-in buffers - will be sufficient to persuade your wife. If not, she is just being irrational (after your years of marriage together, you will know how to best deal with that situation).

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Many wives who have an issue with it would have said "whatever you think is best is fine with me" which means "please don't". That she is actually saying "No" is at least a good thing, you know what she really thinks.
Agreed.

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I don't buy it. Insisting that a spouse work when they don't need to is coercive and corrosive to the relationship. The OP is supposed to suck it up and be unhappy until he gets permission to do what makes him happy so his wife doesn't have to go though the hard work of understanding their true financial position. Were the sexes reversed in this discussion, I think the guy would be seen as a bully.
+2

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You need to come to a mutual agreement or your marriage will be strained. You can run the numbers fifty different ways and if she's not comfortable it's best for your marriage to keep working.
I don't buy that. What you are effectively saying is that one spouse has absolute veto power over the other's life, regardless of any logic.

While I certainly agree with you that a good marriage is all about compromise, yielding to a 'my way or the highway' approach is quite inconsistent with that.

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Maybe DW would feel more comfortable if you were to purchase a fixed income annuity or deferred income annuity, and thereby achieve "certainty" of a future income stream rather than being at the mercy of the stock market?
A good suggestion. Although that strategy is probably not great from a strictly financial perspective, if it buys consensus on ER it could be a price worth paying.

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I worked part time for a few years and really enjoyed having more "me" time and time to do all the things around the house that needed to be done (which now consume my weekends).... DW thinks I will be bored in retirement. I'm not worried about that and have many interests/hobbies outside of work.
Your part-time experience was a kind of 'dry run' for retirement. Point out how happy and fulfilled you were during that 'rehearsal' period.
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Old 08-21-2016, 01:54 PM   #56
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I am burned out and bored at work. NO job satisfaction and frankly, the money isn't worth it. Financial advisor says we can generate more than enough cash to live on without touching principal. I am 54, DW 56. Both of us work, but I am ready to pull the plug, she is not. We have 2 girls at home (14yo twins) and DW is worried about the unknown expenses yet to come and feels I/we should stick it out a few more years. DW also feels that we can not "retire" in the traditional sense until the girls go off to college. What do you do when you and your spouse disagree on timing of FIRE?
Remember the book "Getting to Yes"? A key concept in this excellent negotiation manual by some academics is to always know one's next best thing to a negotiated settlement.

In a marriage, there often is not any next best thing when a spouse plays chicken with you. One spouse will always perceive that he or she has more at risk in a divorce, and one must realize that divorce is a frequent "resolution" to standoffs in a marriage negotiation.

And no matter what planners or ER members or your father in law or anyone else says, you cannot really place justifiable odds on any of the possible outcomes of retiring, or of continuing on the job.

My observation is that divorce and young children is a mess, and often particularly a mess for fathers. If this were truly a showdown, I would continue to work, maybe at a job that annoys you less. This is no guarantee of peace, but it may help.

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Old 08-21-2016, 03:31 PM   #57
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I am a fairly specialized physician and my non-compete applies only to my field.... I could do insurance, legal, and possibly consulting work, but that doesn't interest me. What I really want is to RE.
Perhaps your best option is to settle for doing medical-legal work for the next few years. I appreciate it's not your preference, but at least it's part-time, lucrative, and doesn't require dealing with patients. Plus it will automatically wind down in the not-too-distant future, as most credible lawyers will not seek expert opinions from a physician who hasn't been in active practice in more than three or four years (don't tell your wife that part).

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For all intensive purposes, I am not qualified to do anything other than my current job.
Please tell us that malaprop was causes by an illiterate overzealous spellchecking program.
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Old 08-21-2016, 03:52 PM   #58
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Maybe you could get her to agree to let you retire if your savings stays above a certain "agreed upon level". If it doesn't, you'll agree to go back to work, after 2 or more years.

Otherwise, suck it up and live with it. You can't win! If you don't believe me, just ask your DW who is right!
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Old 08-21-2016, 04:23 PM   #59
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Just an observation not knowing her, but she wouldn't be the first person who got some satisfaction or validation from being a doctors spouse. Might not be the same pretige being married to a retiree.
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Old 08-21-2016, 04:41 PM   #60
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See here's the thing. When DH and I were first talking early retirement, we had an age in mind. When we started getting real with planning, we had set financial goals and tracked our progress. Once we got within 2-3 years of that number, we talked more details. When we were very close, we agreed to OMY, and then we RE'd together when we were both "there". I was very up front with my husband that I would not be able to deal well with him RE'ing much before me, but that was no surprise to him.

Is this a case of "we've always planned and she's changing her mind" or.... "the plans were vague but I've decided I'm ready now"...
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