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Old 06-16-2010, 02:36 PM   #1
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European perspective

Hi,

I'm a Brit, living in France, but I visit the US quite often and do not belong to that 90% group of Brits who think that Americans speak funny or Europeans who think that Americans are out to force-feed us all with bad food.

I'm 49 and my wife is 52. She's happy to work until she's 60, having had her years from 33 to 48 off bringing up kids. I've been working since age 21 and the BS is starting to get to me.

I work for an international organisation. That means a very nice tax-free salary and lots of BS. After 28 years in IT (which is also the field in which I got my degree) I've just been moved to HR (!). This is BS squared, because we can't fire anyone and there is no money to do anything about personnel development. So we spend all day fighting fires, most of them caused by irresponsible (in all senses of the word) management. This is not what I want to get out of bed for.

At present we make about 180K (net) per year (140K for me, 40K for Mrs BigNick) - numbers are in Euros but given the cost of living they might as well be in dollars. We rent our home (1600/mo) so we are flexible. We put about 65K/year aside in savings and another 20K goes on college expenses, which will drop off in a couple of years.

If I stay till 60 then with our savings and work-related pension, we will have at least much income as we currently spend. But here's my way of looking at it: I reckon that I can do what I like until I'm 75 (after which, I'll be very cheap to run: bottle of wine, cricket on TV, Skype to talk to the grandchildren). On that basis, I have 25 good years left. Why would I spend 40% of my available time working?

So, I have to decide when to cut loose. Every year I stay on will put 70K in the bank and 4K/year on my word-related pension.

In about a year I may have the opportunity to do some work for a small American company. I reckon they would pay me 50K instead of the 140K I make now but it would be a blast. Three or four years of that and we would probably be close enough to our overall savings goal.

But, if I walked away from 140K, I would start to feel guilty. If I stay on 5 more years, that's 350K in the bank. That would be a great start in the housing market for each of our two kids, both of whom are bright but unlikely to get jobs in corporate finance or anything else that pays big bucks. How far should I take that into consideration?

Thanks for reading, and for any comments. By the way, if anyone is thinking of retiring to France, I'd be delighted to help with any information I can give.
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Old 06-16-2010, 03:17 PM   #2
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Hi Nick,

There are quite a few of us Europeans lurking around here. Welcome!
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Old 06-16-2010, 03:37 PM   #3
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I think your dilemma is not international. I feel the same way here in the US. It's difficult to cut loose on your own when you are making good money, in my opinion. So, the fight is: $$$ vs. freedom...
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Old 06-16-2010, 06:41 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigNick View Post
Hi,

I'm a Brit, living in France, but I visit the US quite often and do not belong to that 90% group of Brits who think that Americans speak funny or Europeans who think that Americans are out to force-feed us all with bad food.
Hey, thanks! We do have good food, you know. We are not force-feeding anyone, but some of us gorge ourselves on the bad food out of our own will. Free society, ya know?

And lastly, some of us do speak funny, particularly the naturalized citizens, like yours truly.


Quote:
...
In about a year I may have the opportunity to do some work for a small American company. I reckon they would pay me 50K instead of the 140K I make now but it would be a blast. Three or four years of that and we would probably be close enough to our overall savings goal.
That's a big pay cut! But that is part-time work, is it not?
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Old 06-16-2010, 11:23 PM   #5
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"By the way, if anyone is thinking of retiring to France, I'd be delighted to help with any information I can give."

We are of the belief that the Europeans do a lot of things right and we would love to spend more than just a couple of weeks there. What part of France are you located? Would you retire in Great Britain or remain in France?
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Old 06-17-2010, 02:51 AM   #6
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What part of France are you located?
I prefer to keep that confidential for now.

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Would you retire in Great Britain or remain in France?
Definitely not the UK.

France is a high probability - we've been here 20 years, our kids are bilingual (daughter went and added French nationality which had no effect on her UK nationality), we know how to fit in. The way our portfolio is structured will enable us to pay very little income tax here (France has among the lowest income tax in Europe, especially if you know which vehicles to use, and can get them in place before you need them). On the other hand, there is a wealth tax on the order of 0.5%-1% which kicks in at around $1m of total assets, and if you're fiscally resident in France - which we're not now but would be in retirement - that means worldwide assets.

I'm also interested in learning about something I read about called "Perpetual travelling". I like the idea of spending 3 months in Costa Rica, 3 in Australia, 3 in France, and 3 somewhere else. We're not big homemakers, so a 3-month rental furnished apartment with a view somewhere would be nice. If our kids can hold off reproducing until we're 60 then I can see our years 55-60 being pretty cool.
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Old 06-17-2010, 08:58 AM   #7
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welcome. i think it is tres generous to want to give your kids a start in the real world. it's quite the opposite between me and my parents, i worry about what they will do...

look forward to reading your posts.
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Old 06-17-2010, 10:30 AM   #8
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That's a big pay cut! But that is part-time work, is it not?
It would probably be fairly full-time, but I would be "their man in Europe" and part of the deal would be to set my own hours. I would love to be able to work Sundays, for example, and have my "weekend" at another time. There are few things better than a cheap, plat-du-jour lunch with a glass of wine on a day when everyone else is working.
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Old 06-17-2010, 11:17 AM   #9
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Hi Nick,

There are quite a few of us Europeans lurking around here. Welcome!
Lurking..... What an ugly term, Fire. Mind the language, we are so sensitive!!
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Old 06-17-2010, 11:38 AM   #10
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Welcome! I think you have to weigh whether you can afford to stop working now, or in a year vs. having extra money later. If the work is taking a big toll on your energy level/stress level... money isn't everything.

OTOH, your plan of moving here and there for 3 months at a time might be expensive.

I hate working now, I have creative things I want to do (and no energy left to do them) - but I'm about to turn 62 which is a big difference. If I could have afforded to retire earlier, I would have.

So I'd vote for retirement as soon as you can.
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Old 06-17-2010, 11:49 AM   #11
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So, I have to decide when to cut loose.
It's no good trying to make these life-changing decisions on an empty stomach. So I recommend:

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Old 06-17-2010, 12:39 PM   #12
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It's no good trying to make these life-changing decisions on an empty stomach. So I recommend:


Talk about weighing the options!!!!!!!!
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Old 06-17-2010, 06:20 PM   #13
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It would probably be fairly full-time, but I would be "their man in Europe" and part of the deal would be to set my own hours. I would love to be able to work Sundays, for example, and have my "weekend" at another time. There are few things better than a cheap, plat-du-jour lunch with a glass of wine on a day when everyone else is working.
( putting my devils advocate hat on ) If it were me , i would think long and hard moving to the 50k job that will be "awesome" from the 140K job that "sucks". the new job is likely not quite as awesome as you are imagining and vice versa on the existing job.

you can buy yourself two years worth of cheap, plat-du-jour lunches with a glass of wine on a day when everyone else is working by sticking w/ the
pain for "one more year"..

Then again as someone will point out soon after this post. you could end up with cancer a year from now and your bankage will have been for naught
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Old 06-18-2010, 01:01 AM   #14
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( putting my devils advocate hat on ) If it were me , i would think long and hard moving to the 50k job that will be "awesome" from the 140K job that "sucks". the new job is likely not quite as awesome as you are imagining and vice versa on the existing job.
Absolutely. My portfolio planning is "roughly" based around the idea that when I quit the job that sucks, I will have enough in the bank that I don't need the "awesome" job. (I believe the expression is "---- you money", meaning that you can say "---- you" before you put the phone down.) It's just that the timing is such that the "awesome" offer, with a bunch of guys I trust, is more likely to come about 3 years before what I like to call "F-day".
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you can buy yourself two years worth of cheap, plat-du-jour lunches with a glass of wine on a day when everyone else is working by sticking w/ the pain for "one more year"..
Yep, and another year gets Mrs BigNick a Jaguar convertible (she may have mentioned this at some point, I don't honestly remember ) and another three years will get us a small apartment in Palma de Mallorca, if we finance the other 40% with rental income... [/QUOTE]
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Then again as someone will point out soon after this post. you could end up with cancer a year from now and your bankage will have been for naught
Please please tell me that it's true that the one who dies with the most stuff wins.
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Old 06-18-2010, 01:52 AM   #15
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[/QUOTE]

Please please tell me that it's true that the one who dies with the most stuff wins.[/QUOTE]


That thought holds true earlier than later in life. As of late I have been selling my hanger and garage "toys" in favor of enjoying plat-du-jour lunches with a glass of wine in the country where they were meant to be enjoyed, France.
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