FIRE by Trial

[EastWest Gal]

I think you should check with your state labor laws. It is not a federal requirement maintain a certain pay level except for minimum wage.

A retroactive pay cut is probably illegal in most states. You must be informed before you work any hours at the lower pay. I found a website called myemploymentlawyer.com and it appears your question has been asked by people in many states. You don't need a lawyer to contact your state department of labor. Also, given that you resigned due to a pay cut, if the cut were big enough, you might even be able to collect unemployment even though you resigned. You might want to explore this further since you now are not working. I've been through enough work BS over the years (bullying and harrassment mainly) that I've done a lot of reading about workplace issues.

[Youngblood]

Retire2020, I'm sorry to hear this, but good on you being disciplined and LBYM. Stories like this concern me and this is what helps keep me motivated to follow the LBYM, plan, & save lifestyle. If I am ever put in this situation, I hope to be like you (FI) and be able to say 'ENOUGH!' and walk away. I know this isn't how you planned it, but again, congratulations on being prepared!

[Rickt]

Retire2020, good job on being financially disciplined and prepared. All the best dealing with HR to get reimbursed for the retroactive paycut.
You will be fine financially.

Best Wishes!

[retire2020]

Quote:

Originally Posted by EastWest Gal I think you should check with your state labor laws. It is not a federal requirement maintain a certain pay level except for minimum wage. A retroactive pay cut is probably illegal in most states. You must be informed before you work any hours at the lower pay. I found a website called myemploymentlawyer.com and it appears your question has been asked by people in many states. You don't need a lawyer to contact your state department of labor. Also, given that you resigned due to a pay cut, if the cut were big enough, you might even be able to collect unemployment even though you resigned. You might want to explore this further since you now are not working. I've been through enough work BS over the years (bullying and harrassment mainly) that I've done a lot of reading about workplace issues.

Thanks a lot for all these tips. Two managers have been trying to convince me to stay and want to see me next Tuesday in NYC - No offer from them to fix anything...just saying please stay and help us through this new transition period-- their approach just makes me sick. No one mentions anything about severance package or pay cut or 401K match which I'll loose but they want me to stay and help them!

[RobbieB]

Well, you just may be able to talk yourself into a a sweet deal then.

Why not show up and let them throw obscene amounts of dough at you.

How about an 8% increase retroactive as you gave me an 8% cut?

How about double 401K match, and paid health care for 2 years after I leave at the end of the year?

Eat 'em and smile -

[BeachOrCity]

As a megacorp-er myself i had to deal with an 11 month retro salary adjustment back in 2012. I suspect that part of this you did not discuss was perhaps you are on an incentive plan and the adjustment was a change in your incentive plan? Yes it totally sucks, but my understanding when it happen to me was if i would not accept the retro adjustment my incentive plan would be cancelled. Cancellation of my incentive plan was alot more bucks than the base salary adjustment so i agreed to it.

This may not be your situation but given what you said it sure aounds like it might be. Good luck to you going forward.

[pb4uski]

Quote:

Originally Posted by retire2020 Thanks a lot for all these tips. Two managers have been trying to convince me to stay and want to see me next Tuesday in NYC - No offer from them to fix anything...just saying please stay and help us through this new transition period-- their approach just makes me sick. No one mentions anything about severance package or pay cut or 401K match which I'll loose but they want me to stay and help them!

New to the thread... I was actually with you on not complaining about the pay cut as I could understand you not wanting to put the nice new boss in a bad situation about her oversight by complaining since she did apologize, but you said it was retroactive to July 1st... does that mean that they reduced your pay on July 1st and reflected that in your July paychecks and you didn't notice until just now or that they actually paid you your old rate in July and made an adjustment to clawback 8% of it in your most recent paycheck. Both are bad behavior, but the latter is worse IMO.

I would go ahead and meet with the managers in NYC and see what they have to say. Ask them... what's in it for me? and see what they offer. If they offer nothing but attaboys, then leave on 8/15 as you planned.

[H2ODude]

Just a note on the health insurance, and I may be wrong on this as it was 5 years ago. I was able to basically take Cobra indefinitely when left long term employer at 60. Started another gig 30 days later that just didn't work out, but I started paying the Cobra the day I left. I learned later that your election for Cobra can be delayed up to 30 days, and if you elect on the 30th day then you were covered continuously. Since most of us are just scared of the sudden horrendous expense, had I known that I would have not started it unless something bad happened that month.

Feel free to correct me on this, it may be state specific. All I know is I have been taught to never not have health or car insurance and acted on that basis.

[retire2020]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeachOrCity As a megacorp-er myself i had to deal with an 11 month retro salary adjustment back in 2012. I suspect that part of this you did not discuss was perhaps you are on an incentive plan and the adjustment was a change in your incentive plan? Yes it totally sucks, but my understanding when it happen to me was if i would not accept the retro adjustment my incentive plan would be cancelled. Cancellation of my incentive plan was alot more bucks than the base salary adjustment so i agreed to it. This may not be your situation but given what you said it sure aounds like it might be. Good luck to you going forward.

Yes...Thats the explanation I was given. I was previously on 75/25 with WW Pool and new plan is 70/30 with Individual Quota....None of these were discussed with me and found out by surprise in my July end statement. I had not signed anything on new incentive plan nor had agreed to pay cut so the the day I found out, I decided to resign. I was just in NYC for meeting and found out that Q3 is almost dead...All deals may happen in Q4...means I'll have 0 from that 30% on top of that 8% cut in Q3.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pb4uski New to the thread... I was actually with you on not complaining about the pay cut as I could understand you not wanting to put the nice new boss in a bad situation about her oversight by complaining since she did apologize, but you said it was retroactive to July 1st... does that mean that they reduced your pay on July 1st and reflected that in yourNew to the thread... I was actually with you on not complaining about the pay cut as I could understand you not wanting to put the nice new boss in a bad situation about her oversight by complaining since she did apologize, but you said it was retroactive to July 1st... does that mean that they reduced your pay on July 1st and reflected that in your July paychecks and you didn't notice until just now or that they actually paid you your old rate in July and made an adjustment to clawback 8% of it in your most recent paycheck. Both are bad behavior, but the latter is worse IMO. I would go ahead and meet with the managers in NYC and see what they have to say. Ask them... what's in it for me? and see what they offer. If they offer nothing but attaboys, then leave on 8/15 as you planned.b4uski July paychecks and you didn't notice until just now or that they actually paid you your old rate in July and made an adjustment to clawback 8% of it in your most recent paycheck. Both are bad behavior, but the latter is worse IMO. I would go ahead and meet with the managers in NYC and see what they have to say. Ask them... what's in it for me? and see what they offer. If they offer nothing but attaboys, then leave on 8/15 as you planned.

It was latter. I only found out in my last paystub at end of July which had my base pay cut by 8% and another 8% cut for first half of July.

I went to NYC today and met my new manager in person. She and other sales manager want me to stay back but I declined. She said she would help me get severance if I extended my stay and I offered an additional month making 9/15 as my last day. Nothing is confirmed until she speaks with her manager and gets back to me. crossing my fingers for severance!

[retire2020]

Quote:

Originally Posted by H2ODude Just a note on the health insurance, and I may be wrong on this as it was 5 years ago. I was able to basically take Cobra indefinitely when left long term employer at 60. Started another gig 30 days later that just didn't work out, but I started paying the Cobra the day I left. I learned later that your election for Cobra can be delayed up to 30 days, and if you elect on the 30th day then you were covered continuously. Since most of us are just scared of the sudden horrendous expense, had I known that I would have not started it unless something bad happened that month. Feel free to correct me on this, it may be state specific. All I know is I have been taught to never not have health or car insurance and acted on that basis.

Thanks for the info. Health Insurance is must and I will be making some phone calls this week to find out estimate on how much COBRA would cost. Plan is to use COBRA until end of this year and then ACA subsidy for next year - family of five so 400% FPL will be around 113K which I can easily manage to stay below next year.

[BeachOrCity]

Sounds like you have most of this figured out. As someone with alot of time at MC i can tell you sadly that you are far from alone in being shocked by this type of comp plan change but it happens all the time. Does not make it easier or right, but that is the way they do things.

As you know severance these days is only a month so not worth a whole lot to go thru much for it, but they do give you a cobra subsidy for a while which is good when you have a family.

Good luck and PM me if you want to discuss any aspects of this.

[Hutch111]

Quote:

Originally Posted by retire2020 Last 32 years of LBYM and disciplined savings made me FI and it feels great to just walk out. Only time will tell if that was a right decision but right now I've no double thoughts about my decision.

Being able to walk is a good option to have. Congratulations!!

[Markola]

Quote:

Originally Posted by retire2020 She said she would help me get severance if I extended my stay and I offered an additional month making 9/15 as my last day. Nothing is confirmed until she speaks with her manager and gets back to me. crossing my fingers for severance!

Your staying just one more month seems a way to help her cover her error with her superiors. If so, you could perhaps negotiate the severance if offered.

You might stop all 401k contributions ASAP so you get all of your severance in handy cash (less taxes.)

[retire2020]

Goodness was paid back with goodness resulting in saving someone's job! Trusting my new manager and not complaining about her resulted in me getting a severance package through a layoff. Three months notice, one month severance pay and six months of subsidized COBRA coverage is what I would get! I am happy to walk out this way! I think I shall also be able to collect unemployment(NJ) - my package mentions it is state specific. So this makes my last day as 11/30..then a month of severance so really 12/31/2016. I'll enroll in Obamacare after COBRA subsidies expire in May. I will not get 401K match though for this year - One needs to be on payroll through 12/15...What a coincidence! - Not. MegaCorp planned it that way so they can pocket millions from not matching 401K.

Thanks everyone who replied to this thread and giving me various ideas!

[Camellia]

Congratulations!

But my understanding about COBRA is that once elected, you can't switch to ACA until open enrollment in November. Would the expiration of employer subsidy for COBRA be considered the same as actually losing coverage? You may have to budget for paying the full cost June-October.

[Souschef]

Quote:

Originally Posted by retire2020 . I will not get 401K match though for this year - One needs to be on payroll through 12/15...What a coincidence! - Not. MegaCorp planned it that way so they can pocket millions from not matching 401K.

That is why I retired in January. I collected 8% of my salary into my 401K as profit sharing.
Two days later we were on a 14 day South America tour

[retire2020]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camellia Congratulations! But my understanding about COBRA is that once elected, you can't switch to ACA until open enrollment in November. Would the expiration of employer subsidy for COBRA be considered the same as actually losing coverage? You may have to budget for paying the full cost June-October.

Thanks for pointing out. I was not aware. I will need to dig into that detail. My package mentions that I have a choice to continue paying full price;102% of the cost or decline it starting June 1st next year for additional year making total of 18 months of COBRA.

[BeachOrCity]

Great news! Happy it worked out......

On your healthcare plans a few things to think about
1. Since you plan to have two health care plans in 2017 you will have TWO deductibles to meet. Keep this in mind when you analyze your choices
2. Double check the new rules for what counts as a change in coverage to allow you to enroll in the ACA. Make sure that cobra SUBSIDY LOSS still counts as a change. They changed some rules on qualifying events this year (i dont know that it would no longer count, i would just double check if i were you)

Congrats again and good luck on this new chapter.

[retire2020]

Excellent points Beachorcity! Thanks.


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[retire2020]

Last day of work! Can't believe this is it! All things worked out great - Manager got me paid for 3+ weeks of vacation time which I had already taken. One month of severance will be due soon. She also tried to get me an extension by two weeks so I can get my 401K match(about 12K) but that did not go any further with upper management.

Funny coincidence here. Almost twenty years ago when I was a manager in a financial firm, I had an employee who had resigned. He was very hard working and had put in lots of hours to meet all the project deadlines he was given. He had taken all his vacation time just before resigning. I did not tell him but I put in paper work as zero vacation time taken for him. He was surprisingly happy and I had told him that he had earned that pay. Well, you see...same kindness came back to me twenty years later. Good deeds never go waste!

Feeling goosebumps...Hopefully things will settle down soon.