Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-22-2018, 10:00 AM   #41
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: SoCal, Lausanne
Posts: 4,408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retirement_Rookie View Post
Freedom 56 that's an interesting insight. (rural vs. urban.) And I think I realize what's going on. In the US I had a second home in rural New England and have many relatives and friends up the New England coast and inland. (New Hampshire, Ri, and Maine.) The difference between my rural life here and my and my family's rural lives in New England is that in New England rural means RURAL -- my family home in New England was a two and a half hour drive from the nearest decent hospital. And prices were still higher, but we didn't have nearly the options I have in Germany. We were down to Walmarts and very basic supermarkets in rural New England, whereas in Germany rural areas are both close to sophisticated urban areas (I can get to a very nice city just about an hour in every direction, here in Germany) and the rural areas themselves (I guess because of their proximity to urban areas) are more sophisticated. I'd also looked at Paso Robles in California for retirement. But when you live in Paso Robles you're in the middle of nowhere. This is the difference.

I realize it's not for anybody. SMA (in Mexico) Paso Robles (in California) have way better weather than where I am. New England has the coast (but horrible weather and high prices). I think one reason Europeans may have a tough time living well retiring to their own big cities is because their salaries generally are lower than white collar Americans' salaries -- which may make their pensions lower. Not sure. Just a thought.

One other plus in favor of Mexico: In Mexico it's easy and cheap to have domestic help. Here in Germany that's just not possible unless you have a lot of money.
You are correct on the rural area comparison. They can film episodes The Walking Dead in some of these rural areas without making too many changes and find extras for the cast too. Where you live, you can cover a lot of interesting places with some easy driving by car (Amsterdam, Munich, Baden Baden, Brussels, Hamburg, etc...). The roads in Germany are amazing. I would make a good effort to learn the language. Have your partner speak to you in German as much as possible. Within a year you should be pretty fluent. Within 2-3 years you will be able to identify the different German dialects and accents (north vs South). I had to learn 3 more languages just to be able to communicate with my wife's family and friends. After 27+ years it's second nature. I have a good friend from school who moved to Singapore. He speaks fluent Mandarin Chinese and Malay. You should see the look on people's faces when they see and hear him speak Chinese when he is in Los Angeles.

We spend 2 -3 months every year in Switzerland since my retirement 3 years ago. Our home is in Lausanne. There a lot of interesting places to visit just by car within Switzerland, France, and Northern Italy. Many places most tourist never visit. It's also a short and cheap 60-90 minute hop using Easyjet to places like Venice, Nice, Barcelona, Paris, and London. You can't really do that here. However, Switzerland is expensive and you don't have the food choices that you can find in France, Germany, and Italy in the grocery stores. But salaries are higher in Switzerland and taxes are low. But the private health insurance system is expensive also.

Our home base is Southern California. I really can't complain. There are a lot of nice places to visit just by car. LAX is a nice hub to fly to places all over the world.
Freedom56 is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 06-22-2018, 10:45 AM   #42
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,431
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cricky View Post
I was curious about this too, and was surprised to see that numbeo thinks the cost of living for renters is essentially the same in Munich and Atlanta (where I live), and Stuttgart and even Frankfurt are considerably lower than Atlanta. Of course you can argue about numbeo’s methodology, but at least it looks like data.
My German cousin says that Munich is the most expensive place in Germany for housing expense at the moment.

Her granddaughter (whose parents live in Cologne) is attending a dental college there. Trying to find housing is both difficult and pricey.

omni
omni550 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2018, 10:59 AM   #43
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Western NC
Posts: 4,610
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retirement_Rookie View Post
Am reading this forum with interest. Retired in 2017 at 55 after 28 years federal service...

Things are going better now. I have moved with my new German partner to her homeland of Germany, where the cost of living is considerably less than in the U.S. I have a large house out in the country which I rent for €1300 a month (+another €100 in water and heat charges). I own a used car, have about $275,000 in the bank or in an IRA, and get a small pension of $2600 a month. (Half of my federal pension.) I have good health care, plan to start drawing social security when I can, and found that the red-tape to get a German residence permit was minimal. (It basically took a day at the government office. It's renewable annually. I don't have the right to work but don't want to do so.)
Through your partner, reciprocal agreement based on FEHB, or do you pay out of pocket for insurance? (maybe cheaper because you have resident status as a pensioner vs. resident on a work visa?)
ncbill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2018, 08:02 PM   #44
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Huston55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: The Bay Area
Posts: 2,736
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom56 View Post
I can see where you are coming from with the cost of living comparison in rural areas in Germany versus urban areas in the U.S.. But a lot of (and I was astonished at how many) Germans, Swiss, Norwegians, and French have a tough time living on their pensions (I guess they were in the larger cities) and move to Thailand and live like kings.
Well, that’s it right? And even when you compare rural to rural, Germany is so much smaller & more densely populated that it’s not really like to like. Personally, I prefer the more densely populated regions with direct access to more services and sophistication.

This is readily apparent when flying into Germany and looking out the airplane window. I still remember how amazed I was by the view the first time I landed in Frankfurt years ago; almost no such thing as ‘wide open spaces’ in Germany.
__________________
You may be whatever you resolve to be.
100% x 10% > 10% x 100%
Small pensions & SS cover essentials
Huston55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Interesting and Lots to to think about
Old 06-22-2018, 08:25 PM   #45
Confused about dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 9
Interesting and Lots to to think about

Great Posts.
German here who has lived in Mexico for almost 20 years, now living in the US.
I agree with most of your comments:
-Weather way better here in the US, food and infrastructure much better in Germany.
- People and daily Living: probably a mixed bag. When I came to the US as a student 30 plus years ago, the US was THE BEST. Immigration officers used to welcome me as a poor student, now whenever I come here they look at me as if I were to rob them. (I am exaggerating, but not too much).
- Germans love Americans , so you can probably make friends relatively easily, just try to speak some German.
- Club life (Vereinsleben) ) is probably a must.
- Getting good medical care is very difficult in the US. Germany and Mexico much easier, maybe not as advanced at the highest level but much better on average. when I speak to people here, this is the most mis-understood. Americans believe best health care is in the US. That is NOT true, for middlke class health care is much better and much more affordable in Mexico or in germany. I prefer Mexican doctors.
- I am surprised by your comments about German bureaucracy. I remember German bureaucracy as a nightmare. Good to hear it has gotten better, probably due to you being American, or maybe you were just lucky.
- Our plan is to split life between Munich in summer, and Mexico (not sure if Puerto Vallarta, San Miguel or something else) in Winter. I can only take so much bad weather. Service is also so much better in Mex.
- Pre Chrismas is an exception in Germany: Xmas markets (Gluehwein , sausages, etc..) are amazing and carry you through December. Cold
- Agree with you on biking. Best way to get around in Germany.
- Germans are environmentally much more conscious. Food, waste, etc.. Americans are years behind but are catching up fast.
- Germans are NOT entrepreneurs, think about starting a business. As an American you have an edge.
- Take advantage of the travel, outside high season.
- some of my kids are studying here in the US. Colleges (private education) are much better than in Germany, but ridiculously expensive.
- You still cannot get a decent steak in Germany. Love my medium-rare USD prime rib eye here . One thing I miss most is getting fresh bread every morning.
Mexpet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2018, 09:51 AM   #46
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 12,894
I spend part of the year in France, just over the border from downtown Geneva, Switzerland (my condo is less than 5 miles away from the famous Jet d'Eau). I maintain a primary residence in a low-tax, LCOL US state and, as a whole, everyday expenses are not that different between the two locations (including food, insurance, and housing). In our case, it really comes down mostly to taxes and healthcare. Low taxes and high healthcare costs in the US, high taxes and low healthcare costs in France. Each location also has more subjective pros and cons (like quality of life) which may help to tilt the balance one way or the other in the future.
FIREd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2018, 04:21 PM   #47
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Red Badger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Hog Mountian
Posts: 2,077
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mexpet View Post
Great Posts.
German here who has lived in Mexico for almost 20 years, now living in the US.
I agree with most of your comments:
-Weather way better here in the US, food and infrastructure much better in Germany.
- People and daily Living: probably a mixed bag. When I came to the US as a student 30 plus years ago, the US was THE BEST. Immigration officers used to welcome me as a poor student, now whenever I come here they look at me as if I were to rob them. (I am exaggerating, but not too much).
- Germans love Americans , so you can probably make friends relatively easily, just try to speak some German.
- Club life (Vereinsleben) ) is probably a must.
- Getting good medical care is very difficult in the US. Germany and Mexico much easier, maybe not as advanced at the highest level but much better on average. when I speak to people here, this is the most mis-understood. Americans believe best health care is in the US. That is NOT true, for middlke class health care is much better and much more affordable in Mexico or in germany. I prefer Mexican doctors.
- I am surprised by your comments about German bureaucracy. I remember German bureaucracy as a nightmare. Good to hear it has gotten better, probably due to you being American, or maybe you were just lucky.
- Our plan is to split life between Munich in summer, and Mexico (not sure if Puerto Vallarta, San Miguel or something else) in Winter. I can only take so much bad weather. Service is also so much better in Mex.
- Pre Chrismas is an exception in Germany: Xmas markets (Gluehwein , sausages, etc..) are amazing and carry you through December. Cold
- Agree with you on biking. Best way to get around in Germany.
- Germans are environmentally much more conscious. Food, waste, etc.. Americans are years behind but are catching up fast.
- Germans are NOT entrepreneurs, think about starting a business. As an American you have an edge.
- Take advantage of the travel, outside high season.
- some of my kids are studying here in the US. Colleges (private education) are much better than in Germany, but ridiculously expensive.
- You still cannot get a decent steak in Germany. Love my medium-rare USD prime rib eye here . One thing I miss most is getting fresh bread every morning.
Maybe. I was stationed in northern Germany (Bremerhaven area) in the 80's. On a weekend rip to Hamburg, we stumbled across an Argentine steak house. For someone who had gone 2 years without a good steak, it was life changing.
__________________
Never let yesterday use up too much of today.
W. Rogers
Red Badger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2018, 04:26 PM   #48
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas: No Country for Old Men
Posts: 50,004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Badger View Post
On a weekend rip...
I did some of those when I was in the service, too.
__________________
Numbers is hard
REWahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2018, 12:32 AM   #49
Dryer sheet aficionado
Retirement_Rookie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: the countryside
Posts: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by omni550 View Post
My German cousin says that Munich is the most expensive place in Germany for housing expense at the moment.

Her granddaughter (whose parents live in Cologne) is attending a dental college there. Trying to find housing is both difficult and pricey.

omni
Yes, Munich is unaffordable for me to live in. I see what you mean on Cologne. One bedroom apartments there rent for around $600, high for much of Germany. According to a student website there: "Rent in Cologne similar to other German big cities runs fairly high and varies greatly depending on the area. An average rent for an unfurnished one bedroom apartment (about 40 m2) is around 500 Euros per month, and for a room in a shared apartment (“Wohngemeinschaft” or "WG") around 350 Euros.Jun 9, 2015"
Retirement_Rookie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2018, 12:49 AM   #50
Dryer sheet aficionado
Retirement_Rookie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: the countryside
Posts: 37
Thanks for all the great advice and comments from people. Here is what I put together out of all of this:

-- We all know that choice of where we live is just that: a choice. There are lots of places with better weather than Germany. I am in Germany because it fits my needs even if the weather isn't so great.

-- Some people have noted that they do similar things based in Germany/Mexico or Switzerland/USA. (My own experience with Switzerland was that it was a lot more expensive than my part of Germany, but I know the Alps are great.)

-- I need to hedge my dollar/euro risk somehow to protect myself from fluctuations in the dollar/euro rate. I need to work on this.

-- German urban areas can be expensive, so my strategy of a rural area is giving me the best bang for the buck, and given that rural and urban areas are so close, there's not much of a negative lifestyle impact living in rural Germany (because it's so close to urban Germany). German rural areas are better served with infrastructure, shops, and services than many U.S. rural areas.

-- Because of this strategy, Germany is a pretty inexpensive place for me to live.

-- In my area, food and drink are generally better quality than at comparable price points in the US (and I'd argue dramatically better at any price point in the beer and wine category!) HOWEVER, don't look for good steak in Germany.

-- Medical care is on an average basis better in Germany. (I've got my own health insurance so haven't needed to go on the German public system, but there might be ways to do this.)

-- German bureaucracy, in terms of getting a permit to live in Germany, is not nearly as horrifying as one would imagine.

-- I still need to get to know more Germans.

I'd add, finally, two things: the first is that I've been able to find quite good workarounds for consumer good purchases in Germany. While I was still active duty I used the PX system at U.S. bases in Germany. I have to say to my surprise that now I no longer have base access, there's absolutely nothing I can't get at comparable prices locally -- it's all here nowadays. The second is that one of my grown children is visiting for a week, this week. She wanted to visit Luxembourg for the day. We hoped on a train and took the 167 kilometer trip along the Moselle for €35 for both of us round trip. The train left from the center of town here and deposited us in the heart of Luxembourg. It was a fantastic train, spotless, filled with bikers and hikers most of whom got out along the way. We had great fun wandering Luxembourg all day, seeing the fairytale sights, drinking beer, going out to lunch there -- expensive €100 for the two of us, but copious, with a bottle of wine and other drinks, seafood and meat. Nothing like this in New England. Quebec or Montreal are a lot further away; nothing in America comes close to Luxembourg's fairy tale scenery.

Thanks for all the great advice. If anybody is interested in exploring doing something similar, feel free to reach out if you'd like to discuss it.
Retirement_Rookie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2018, 09:07 AM   #51
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Huston55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: The Bay Area
Posts: 2,736
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retirement_Rookie View Post

-- I need to hedge my dollar/euro risk somehow to protect myself from fluctuations in the dollar/euro rate. I need to work on this.
You might want to consider investing a chunk of your funds in Euro-based assets.
__________________
You may be whatever you resolve to be.
100% x 10% > 10% x 100%
Small pensions & SS cover essentials
Huston55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2018, 04:02 PM   #52
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Bryan Barnfellow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 1,045
Welcome Retirement_Rookie from a neighbor to the south in Switzerland (Lugano, in the Italian speaking canton of Ticino). The dual tax situation can become complex, especially when accountants in your new country don't know much about the tax treaties or the details of IRAs, Roths, or 401(k)s.

I have found an extraordinary amount of misinformation, rumors, and myths concerning what is taxable in the US vs. Switzerland vs. both. It's always best to do your own due diligence; for me that consisted of a lot of google research, talking with other expats, and conversations with our tax accountant. We use one because the forms are only in Italian here and it would be easy to screw up!

We've been here for 9 years now and loving it in Europe. We have permanent residency and plan to apply for the Swiss passport as well. Just returned from a 12 day trip to Cornwall in the UK, via London. EasyJet from Milan (just to our south) to London was 120 euros roundtrip for both of us together, and that was paying for emergency exit seats. Hard to beat that!

-BB
__________________
FIREd, April 1, 2015. My Retirement Benefits Package includes: 6 months vacation, twice a year.
Bryan Barnfellow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2018, 05:41 PM   #53
gone traveling
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncbill View Post
Through your partner, reciprocal agreement based on FEHB, or do you pay out of pocket for insurance? (maybe cheaper because you have resident status as a pensioner vs. resident on a work visa?)
I think the way healthcare overseas works for federal employees and retirees is that all costs are mostly covered by the Blue Cross Blue Shield federal plan. You do have to find a provider or hospital in the overseas country that participates, but there are always many to choose from. AXA insurance administers overseas healthcare for Blue Cross, and recommends establishing direct payment between the foreign facility and Blue Cross, eliminating all claims paperwork.

Germany is a great place to retire. The trick is to get permanent residence as a US citizen. I believe there is a path for retirees showing sufficient funds, retirement income, and healthcare coverage (probably the hardest part). One may be able to buy into such healthcare coverage in Germany.
Richard8655 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2018, 06:23 PM   #54
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: SoCal, Lausanne
Posts: 4,408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mexpet View Post
Great Posts.
German here who has lived in Mexico for almost 20 years, now living in the US.
I agree with most of your comments:
-Weather way better here in the US, food and infrastructure much better in Germany.
I would disagree with respect to food. I guess it depends where you live in the US. In the greater Los Angeles area the food choices are very good and same for South East Florida or Las Vegas. With all due respect, German food and wine isn't even close to what you can get in California. You can find all the best cuisines in the world here and many of the best chefs are also here. I would agree that the average restaurant in France and Italy are better than the average restaurants here. But you can easily avoid the bad restaurants and they usually shut down within 2-3 years.
Freedom56 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2018, 12:20 PM   #55
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Harrogate, UK
Posts: 921
I spent 10 years working in Giessen American high school.....tough school to work at, but the area was great. Not far from where you are at.
F4mandolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2018, 07:26 AM   #56
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 511
I was in Munich for Oktoberfest last year and I paid more for my hotel room than on any of my other trips. I did have an excellent ribeye at a gastropub across the street from my hotel. Best steak I'd had in several years.

I just came back from Budapest where I rented a 2BDRM/2BA Airbnb for $68 a night! Everything in Budapest was inexpensive when compared to the other European cities I have visited in the last 5 years. Dinner out for two with a 1/2 liter of German beer was €21 including tax and 12% gratuity. Hungary does not use the Euro which partly explains why it is so inexpensive to visit there.

While researching rooms for my next trip, I've learned that there can be quite a price difference on Airbnb. For instance, there are no deals to be found in Geneva, and Barcelona is much more expensive than Madrid. I wonder if we could use Airbnb rates as a proxy for housing costs?

This thread is very interesting to me because I assumed that it was too difficult to get a long term residency visa for Germany for it to be an option. I'm not sure if my retiree healthcare plan will cover extended stays abroad, but I will spend some time researching that now.
NoiseBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2018, 07:50 AM   #57
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Red Badger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Hog Mountian
Posts: 2,077
Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo View Post
I did some of those when I was in the service, too.
I am so busted!

But yeah, a good steak could be had. I always went for a medium rare porterhouse.
__________________
Never let yesterday use up too much of today.
W. Rogers
Red Badger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2018, 08:13 AM   #58
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Florida's First Coast
Posts: 7,666
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan View Post
What Michael said, however residents from non-EU countries pay an annual mandatory fee as part of their visa and they then have full access to the NHS at no further charge.

£200 it looks like at present. (£150 for a those on a student visa)

https://www.gov.uk/healthcare-immigr...n/how-much-pay

Alan, is you spouse or partner US or UK? There are rules now for spousal visas and I hear they are complicated. I am a UK Citizen. we were toying with moving back for a few years ~5 or 10 but my DW of 31 years is a Canadian Citizen.
__________________
"Never Argue With a Fool, Onlookers May Not Be Able To Tell the Difference." - Mark Twain
ShokWaveRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2018, 12:23 PM   #59
Administrator
Alan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: N. Yorkshire
Posts: 34,056
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShokWaveRider View Post
Alan, is you spouse or partner US or UK? There are rules now for spousal visas and I hear they are complicated. I am a UK Citizen. we were toying with moving back for a few years ~5 or 10 but my DW of 31 years is a Canadian Citizen.
We are both UK/US citizens so have not had to deal with spouse or fiancé visas. There are a couple of good websites where you can find good info on this. I will PM you assuming our signal stays good. (We are on our way from the North Cape in Norway to Tromso at present)
__________________
Retired in Jan, 2010 at 55, moved to England in May 2016
Enough private pension and SS income to cover all needs
Alan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2018, 01:07 PM   #60
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Florida's First Coast
Posts: 7,666
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan View Post
We are both UK/US citizens so have not had to deal with spouse or fiancé visas. There are a couple of good websites where you can find good info on this. I will PM you assuming our signal stays good. (We are on our way from the North Cape in Norway to Tromso at present)
Thanks Alan.
__________________
"Never Argue With a Fool, Onlookers May Not Be Able To Tell the Difference." - Mark Twain
ShokWaveRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
6% a year seems pretty fool proof, any thoughts? Honeyfill FIRE and Money 83 09-18-2017 04:34 PM
First year of FIRE: did your taxes from the year before shock you? BBQ-Nut FIRE and Money 20 09-30-2014 01:05 PM
First full year of me retired and DW working. Taxes? Tree-dweller FIRE and Money 15 08-26-2012 01:55 PM
My first $100,000 seems impossible. Cassius King Young Dreamers 54 06-27-2010 02:07 PM
Fly naked on Germany's first nudist holiday flight Wags Other topics 14 01-31-2008 07:00 AM

» Quick Links

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:19 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.