Got kicked out of Mr Money Mustache...

[DawgMan]

New guy on the block. I have been plugged into MMM site for last few months sucking up all the great advice. I am a closet "want to be super frugal", but not sure I can do it. I started sharing some of my situation and was told to check out this site as there may be more of my peeps here. While selling your car and driving a 10 speed sounds great, I prefer a nice car.

Here is the quick and dirty...
- 51
- married with 4 kids, 1 just got married, 1 out of college and employed, 2 in college
- self employed, eat what I kill, mama has always taken care of the nest
- looking to "retire" around 55 if I have the balls
- live significantly below my means
- NW currently around $5m, $4.2m in investments (mutual funds, etfs, RE)

Here is where I need the experience of those who have gone before me... DW and I are assembling our bucket lists and planning on doing some test runs over next few yrs to see if what we THINK we want RE to look like is what we really want. Frankly, I don't hate my job and have allot of flexibility, but would like to do something else and stop chasing the dollar at some point. I am much more frugal than DW and want to be sensitive to her wants, but we both have discussed down shifting our lifestyle (on paper). I would feel good generating $200K after tax in RE and think I am tracking per my target date. Sooo, I think my biggest question is for any of you that may have been in my position as a the sole hunter and gatherer for the family, how did you phase out of that into a happy RE person? After all these years being the one responsible financially for a family of 6, it's hard to put down the sword. Thoughts?

 

[clifp]

First welcome. Demographically, and attitude wise I think you'll find more kindred spirits here.

5 Mil with a family of 6 and primary (sole?) bread winner is a quite an accomplishment.
All that said 200K (after tax) means you need investable assets closer to 6 million than 4.2, although it sounds like you are saving a ton. With the kids out of the house over the next couple of years, you'll get a good feel for how much your retirement spending is going to be in reality. Paper budgets are nice but.....

I'm not married so I can't give advice on the family transition. However, the two big questions I have for you are. How much of your ego is tied into the job, and second is there a way for you to gradually down shift into retirement? Take a sabbatical, work part, cut back from 60 hours to 40 hours etc..

 

[StuckinCT]

I think we have a lot in common. I am lucky in that my wife, who grew up basically as close to poor as you can in Oregon, finally has her 6000 sf house that is perfectly decorated, and all of the trappings of what she wanted growing up, and not just the ring etc, most of all a beautiful family. Can you fault her? She actually has a frugal streak, buying most of her clothes on sale but now all of the sudden like you, I have realized that the high expense/consumption lifestyle is getting in the way of some of my passions, namely a more outdoor lifestyle. I am quasi retired already but our NYC suburban lifestyle knows no letting up, which is really wearing on me. I am just in a different state of mind. This is why I am lucky: she is supporting me in this even though it means giving up some of her wants. Hopefully we can find a happy medium. She has alway dreamt of living in California, whereas I always wanted to live in VT or Maine. Her family is in Oregon and mine is CT. I don't think there are any perfect answers and it is as much about how you handle it as where you end up probably. Like you, I am laying down the sword which is damn scary because of the way I have been programmed. I also admire extreme frugality and while I would like to incorporate more of it into my lifestyle, ie no Porsche, I will never be a mustachian in the true sense and I am completely cool with that. I just wish there were more people like me at 44, but as time goes along more will join.

 

[Fermion]

ER.org sounds about right for you.

If your net worth is sub $50K and you are thinking of early retirement, I would say cheap rv living . com (aka living in a van down by the river)

For net worth around $500K, MMM

For net worth around $1M to $5M, ER.org

For net worth of $5M to $30M Bogleheads

For net worth of $30M+, you shouldn't even be wasting time on a financial forum.

 

[DawgMan]

Thanks for the reply. Don't think of myself as an ego guy. Quite frankly, feel very lucky/blessed/thankful to be where I am. My issue is not being a 60 hour week guy. I'm actually a 25 - 30 hour a week guy, so I am not complaining. Not to get all philosophical, but I just think there is more to life than making bank so I am doing my internal battle with my "you work hard/buy it/you deserve it/lets just do it" and "I can do something important while I am on this planet". I think I can find the balanced formula, but I would be lying if I said it is easy to just shut down the money machine. If I was exhausted working 60 hrs a week and my life was full of stress, I think it would be easier. I may be able to generate some income part time, but once you jump out of my biz, it's tough to see much return on your time. Appreciate the response.

 

[DawgMan]

You guys are quick on the draw... Thanks for all the responses!

 

[harley]

You guys are quick on the draw... Thanks for all the responses!

What a nice way of saying we have no lives and spend all our time on the forum. Very classy! Welcome.

 

[DawgMan]

Thanks Harley! As a newbie to all this blog stuf, I just noticed you have pulled your weapon out of your holster 4,809 times! Impressive!

 

[DawgMan]

BTW, how do you earn stars?? I noticed Cliffp is a 7 star general?

 

[REWahoo]

BTW, how do you earn stars?? I noticed Cliffp is a 7 star general?

http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f32/number-of-stars-below-name-66368.html

 

[pb4uski]

And best of all it is solely quantity, no reference to quality.

It looks like you are well on your way. You could go sooner if you can live on less. $4,200k * 4% = $168k

You can get an idea of what your taxes would be like at Taxcaster. For most of us, it is a lot less than when we were working... surprisingly lower. Mine would be nil if I wasn't doing Roth conversions, but I don't mind paying 8.5% tax now on money that I avoided 25% tax when I deferred that income.

 

[Another Reader]

ER.org sounds about right for you.

If your net worth is sub $50K and you are thinking of early retirement, I would say cheap rv living . com (aka living in a van down by the river)

For net worth around $500K, MMM

For net worth around $1M to $5M, ER.org

For net worth of $5M to $30M Bogleheads

For net worth of $30M+, you shouldn't even be wasting time on a financial forum.

Is there some kind of graduation ceremony when you move up a level? Or is the promotion automatic, with no accompanying celebratory notice?

 

[FUEGO]

Is there some kind of graduation ceremony when you move up a level? Or is the promotion automatic, with no accompanying celebratory notice?

Yeah, they even double your pay.

DawgManDawg, sounds like you're in great shape to have some kind of early retirement if that's what suits you. I pulled the plug already and my wife is down to about 20-30 hrs/wk working from home (but still technically full time). Another four day weekend for her right now.

And yeah, if you like nice cars, MMM probably isn't the place for you. I have barely more than a million bucks and often feel out of place over there.

 

[Major Tom]

And yeah, if you like nice cars, MMM probably isn't the place for you. I have barely more than a million bucks and often feel out of place over there.

I only have ~750K, but even when I had closer to 500K, couldn't stomach MMM. Each to his own, but I'm not keen on the overall attitude of the site, and the way it presents itself. As someone who lives on around 17K/year (15,600 of it from my portfolio), I am not your typical E-R.org member, but this place is much more my speed than any of the other financial/retirement sites around.

Welcome, DawgMan. I agree with all those who have said this is more your kind of place. I think you'll find plenty of conversations here you can relate to.

 

[Ticker]

Thanks for the reply. Don't think of myself as an ego guy. Quite frankly, feel very lucky/blessed/thankful to be where I am. My issue is not being a 60 hour week guy. I'm actually a 25 - 30 hour a week guy, so I am not complaining. Not to get all philosophical, but I just think there is more to life than making bank so I am doing my internal battle with my "you work hard/buy it/you deserve it/lets just do it" and "I can do something important while I am on this planet". I think I can find the balanced formula, but I would be lying if I said it is easy to just shut down the money machine. If I was exhausted working 60 hrs a week and my life was full of stress, I think it would be easier. I may be able to generate some income part time, but once you jump out of my biz, it's tough to see much return on your time. Appreciate the response.

I wondered how I would spend my time after ER. Turns out I am busier than ever and wonder how I previously found time to work. My quality of life has improved drastically. you'll find all of the balance that you need.

 

[Sunset]

Welcome ..
You certainly don't want to move to CA.
Meet her 1/2 way like in North Dakota ?
Seriously, WA would be good as no State income tax and its just North of CA.

 

[Elbata]

ER.org sounds about right for you.

If your net worth is sub $50K and you are thinking of early retirement, I would say cheap rv living . com (aka living in a van down by the river)

For net worth around $500K, MMM

For net worth around $1M to $5M, ER.org

For net worth of $5M to $30M Bogleheads

For net worth of $30M+, you shouldn't even be wasting time on a financial forum.

That's funny Fermion. Though I'm a big fan of all three. BTW, you really think it's only $5-30MM for The Bogleheads?

 

[DawgMan]

Great stuff all. I hope I can contribute some of my war stories and help some poor bastard like me. I am just happy I don't have to make my own toilet paper on this site or experience a "Face Punch"!!

 

[hnzw_rui]

If your net worth is sub $50K and you are thinking of early retirement, I would say cheap rv living . com (aka living in a van down by the river)

For net worth around $500K, MMM

For net worth around $1M to $5M, ER.org

For net worth of $5M to $30M Bogleheads

For net worth of $30M+, you shouldn't even be wasting time on a financial forum.

Ouch, looks like I should be in CheapRVLiving.com right now.

Hmm, if I'm targeting $500K to $1M (will have DB COLA pension), does that mean I'm in limbo?

 

[Fermion]

Ouch, looks like I should be in CheapRVLiving.com right now.

Hmm, if I'm targeting $500K to $1M (will have DB COLA pension), does that mean I'm in limbo?

If you were very near pulling the trigger on retirement and only had $50k, then I would say, yes, you need to be considering a van (used) down by the river (in a low cost of living area too)

I value a pension at the 4% SWR, so a $40k per year cola'd pension is worth $1M in net worth.

But please tell us in another thread if you are retiring on just $50k total with no pension.

 

[Sea Kayaker]

I feel at home on both forums...though I probably spend more time on MMM.

We spend right around $2000 monthly, so very much in the MMM mould.

NW is right around 2.5M - which I tend not to mention on MMM because...well, I just don't.

 

[marko]

ER.org sounds about right for you.

If your net worth is sub $50K and you are thinking of early retirement, I would say cheap rv living . com (aka living in a van down by the river)

For net worth around $500K, MMM

For net worth around $1M to $5M, ER.org

For net worth of $5M to $30M Bogleheads

For net worth of $30M+, you shouldn't even be wasting time on a financial forum.

I had never thought about a demarcation, but it does seem to make sense in how each forum meets a certain level of needs.

However, I do find this particular forum a welcoming home-base; entertaining beyond the financial aspects...nice people with good insights regardless of NW and a nice sense of fraternity going on.

This site should be required reading for high schoolers!

 

[hnzw_rui]

If you were very near pulling the trigger on retirement and only had $50k, then I would say, yes, you need to be considering a van (used) down by the river (in a low cost of living area too)

I value a pension at the 4% SWR, so a $40k per year cola'd pension is worth $1M in net worth.

But please tell us in another thread if you are retiring on just $50k total with no pension.

My annual expenses (inclusive of tax) is already at $50K. I'd be to think I can live off just $50K for the rest of my existence.

I'm 31 right now so unless I win millions in the lottery (highly unlikely since I don't even buy lottery tickets), there's no chance of me pulling the trigger anytime soon.

That said, since I'm at a relatively young age, I figure I've got compounding on my side and hope to accumulate a cushion once I turn 55 for vacations, hobbies, toys and LTC. I reckon the pension's enough to cover basic living expenses as my "take-home" pension will be even higher than my take-home pay right now.

 

[athena53]

Hi, and welcome to the Board! I'm female but was the sole/primary breadwinner for most of my adult life. (During the first 8 of the 13 years I was married to my first husband, he was gainfully employed.) I had a middle-management job that paid well, took up a lot of my time and included some travel.


The time elapsed between my decision that my BS bucket was full and my last day at my employer was one week. I was 61. That was 18 months ago and life is good.


For me it's been a combination of slowing down some, plus finding new commitments/interests. I bicycle more and spend a bit more time at the gym. The house is much cleaner. (Current DH, who is 15 years older, was great at keeping the house and cars maintained and making great dinners, but a somewhat negligent housekeeper.) I'm learning Icelandic because DH and I were there this year and loved it so much we want to go back. Yesterday I worked in the church vegetable garden and tomorrow I'll be there sewing up dresses for girls in Haiti. If you belong to a religious organization they'll find LOTS for you to do! Oh, yeah- I'm overhauling their Web site, too.


So that's my list (in part). It's some structure, because I need it, but a lot less structure than employment. Think about what you do in your spare time and what you'd like to learn or do more. Everyone has his/her own list!

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I am just happy I don't have to make my own toilet paper on this site or experience a "Face Punch"!!

The thing that strikes me on the MMM forum is a lot of the savings seem pennywise and pound foolish. I like being frugal, but to me that means getting on an unsold theater ticket list and getting front row seats at plays for free, not sitting home darning socks.

Last night I went shopping at a local outlet grocery store and spent around $100 and saved around $100 for an hour of my time. If I rode my bike to a closer to my house, bikeable grocery store instead I would save maybe $1 in gas and lose the $100 savings I could get by driving further and being able to load up the trunk with bargains.

What I don't usually see there is consideration on the ROI on their time. Yogurt is $1.50 for a big tub at at my local Grocery Outlet. If I made my own yogurt I'd still have to buy ingredients and pay for electricity, so what would I make per hour of my time after subtracting our ingredient and energy costs? Fifty cents? It is fine to do some DIY things as hobbies, but I don't see many of the ideas on those forums as a way to get rich or retire early, when instead of making yogurt one could be taking MOOC or Lynda.com classes and learning $100 an hour tech skills.