Guilty

[Revlefty]

I'm 54 and looking to ER early next year. I've been planning and getting my financial ducks in a row trying to do everything I can to maximize my resources. Everything is looking like a go and then I got the phone call. My sister was so upset because her rent was just increased and she "doesn't know what she is going to do". I told her several months ago that I was going to retire because my job is taking a toll on my heath and I can't physically handle the work any more. Now comes the guilt because she truly does need help but... I've always been a saver and lived well below my means. Worked my tail off 60 hours a week for 29 years. She has never worked a conventional job because "she doesn't want to take s*** from employers" and want to live a more "spiritual" life. Now she said she can't do any more of the work she does do because she is getting to old( I can relate). I've had many discussions with her over the years about her need to get a job "on the books" so she has SS in the future. Well low and behold she is 60 now and looking at the minimum SS benefit. So now she wants to move into my 900sf house that I have paid off as part of my retirement plan. THAT is not going to work for me. We get along when we visit but I will not live with her. Her constant comments about what I eat and her wacked out theories about this and that would drive me crazy. We are getting together this Sunday it is not going to be a pleasant conversation. She is my Sister and I want to help but I will not sacrifice my happiness in retirement I have earned because she did not plan ahead. I may be the a******* here but I'm not going to do it. But I do feel guilty about it.

Tell her you will help her move her stuff when she finds a cheaper place.

 

[Chuckanut]

You are not an a***** and it's not your fault.

It sounds like you sister is a certified "Crazy Maker". These are people who do the wrong things, refuse to make necessary sacrifices and then, when they have problems and suffer, it's your fault for not helping them.

FWIW, she is in a moment of panic. Perhaps she will find an alternative. It sounds like she is good at alternative life styles. I would not let her move in. Getting her out would be a real problem. If you feel like helping offer to pay the rent increase for a few months while she finds a cheaper place to live.

 

[spncity]

Once a long time ago, my sister asked me if she should pay off our dad's credit card debt because it would be a kind act of "helping the less fortunate."

Some of that debt was incurred because he couldn't resist the "bargain table" at Home Depot - in some instances for items he did not need, or that were duplicates of tools he already owned.

I asked her: "How do you know that would really be the best way to help him? What if it would be more helpful in the long run to let him grapple with the consequences, pay it himself, and learn to live within his means?"

She thought about it and decided not to pay off his debt.

He worked on paying off his credit card debt, we cheered him on - and I don't think he ever went into credit card debt again....

YMMV.

Kindest regards.

 

[BigNick]

I think a lot of people heard about Luke 15:11-32 as kids and thought it was a pretty sweet deal.

 

[dallas27]

Help her as much as you can, without sacrificing your own happiness to compensate for her poor choices. If you can do that, you can feel good about your choices.


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[W2R]

I'm one of four children, we would never ask for more than encouraging words from each other. Doesn't mean we don't love, care, and support one another but there are boundaries. A week visit great, moving in no way.

+1

I'm one of three, and my brothers and I would never ask for more than that from one another, either. We love and care about each other, and we also respect each other's intelligence and ability to handle life's problems as they arise. I think that if asked for advice, you should very carefully and with infinite tact suggest that she get a roommate (and refuse to address any "yes but" responses). Enough said.

 

[ShortInSeattle]

She is your sister and you love her so guilt is a very normal response. But she is taking advantage of you and a bit of tough love will save your sanity. I think telling her in a tactful way that she should find someone to share the rent with will keep your relationship in a good place. Maybe tell her that you are not a good roomate or you have to live alone and need your space would give you some kind of excuse?

I might be even more direct. "I love you sis, and I'll always be your brother. If you like, I can try to help by looking at your budget and making some suggestions. But the reality is that I will not be inviting you to live with me and I can't support you financially. All I can offer you right now is some advice."

If she gets pushy, you can go to:

"I've saved very carefully for my retirement, and I don't have money to cover anyone else. Also, I don't want a roommate, period. It's not going to happen."

In my experience, people who lay on the guilt don't respond well to subtlety.

Of course you're welcome to offer as much support as you'd like. But this is how I'd phrase my "no" if no is the answer.

good luck!

 

[Gumby]

I think a lot of people heard about Luke 15:11-32 as kids and thought it was a pretty sweet deal.

I'm guessing most people here relate more to the older son.

 

[imoldernu]

I We are getting together this Sunday it is not going to be a pleasant conversation. She is my Sister and I want to help but I will not sacrifice my happiness in retirement I have earned because she did not plan ahead. .

Your situation is not uncommon.

I try to never give advice, but to share what I feel and may have experienced.

The last situation was with a loved one, who had no savings, and because of physical problems, was unable to work. We met together several times, to explore the possibilities. There are state and federal programs for those who cannot provide for themselves... too many to list here. We, together, located two excellent support agencies... one for housing, and the second for medical, plus food stamps.
Most states have special agencies devoted to those who have monetary problems. Free cell phones, tax services, pharmaceuticals, local transportation free services and counseling services.
Locally, low cost housing subsidies and apartment locators, food kitchens, emergency counselling.

In this case, not a hand out (from me), but a hand up... to self help. three or four hours of helping and counselling meant more than money, and is a beginning of self confidence..

The answer is NOT government services, but an entry into self sufficiency, and away from dependency.

To put a final note on the situation mentioned above. It was a kick start into what turned out to be independent living. A rebuilding of ego, and the sense of self worth led to a new outlook on life. With some short term help, in the organization of a budget and longer term plan for later years, this person is now working in a position suitable for the disabilities and will be independent over the long haul.

So... not money, but help... a leg up.

 

[Katiek]

I can understand feeling guilty, it's hard to say no to someone you love. But this is your life we're talking about. You've worked hard and shouldn't allow anyone to ruin the future you've established for yourself. Do you want to spend every day of your well earned retirement resentful and unhappy?

My parents have never asked me for anything, but if they did, I'd certainly help them as much as I could even if that meant working longer or making do with less. But that is because they've always been financially responsible. They lived below their means, and sacrificed fancy trips or buying a house to help my siblings and me pay for school. I graduated without debt because of their sacrifices, and they have helped all of us along the way lots of times. If they needed anything, it wouldn't be because they were irresponsible, and I'd be thankful for the chance to repay the sacrifices they made for me. But I would likely feel different if they needed money because they were spending foolishly and weren't willing to make changes that were required. In that case, funding the expenses might just be enabling destructive behavior.

 

[Samething]

FWIW, she is in a moment of panic. Perhaps she will find an alternative. It sounds like she is good at alternative life styles. I would not let her move in. Getting her out would be a real problem. If you feel like helping offer to pay the rent increase for a few months while she finds a cheaper place to live.

Pretty much my thinking. I am going to offer to pay the increase for 2 months so she can find a less expensive place. I will make it clear she will not be moving in.

Jrwinfla,

I bet, with 60 hour weeks for 29 years, you took some cr*p.

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Oh yes my friend. That's just the way it is in megacorp land.

Help her as much as you can, without sacrificing your own happiness to compensate for her poor choices. If you can do that, you can feel good about your choices.

It's not like I haven't given substantial financial support in the past. Actually the reason I made sure to tell her my plans to retire is so she knows that my budget must be more carefully planed. I will make it clear it's a new ballgame now.

Your situation is not uncommon.

There are state and federal programs for those who cannot provide for themselves... too many to list here. .

So... not money, but help... a leg up.

You know that was one of my first thoughts but she does not qualify for any of the assistance programs I've looked into. We received a small inheritance from our Mother's estate and she does not meet the asset qualifications. So she is not going to be on the streets for now when I don't let her move in. I understand she doesn't want to spent all of her last resource but it's been over a year since we received the estate and she hasn't found any way to increase her income.

Thank you all for the replies. You know it's been helpful to me just to put it in writing and sort out my thoughts and feelings. The smartest thing I did was delay the conversation to get it all sorted out in my mind.

 

[CaliforniaMan]

Pretty much my thinking. I am going to offer to pay the increase for 2 months so she can find a less expensive place. I will make it clear she will not be moving in.
...

If it were me I would rather offer to pay her move in expenses after she gets the lease on the new place. There is little incentive to move if you are paying for two months. After she got you to put up for two months, my guess it is likely she will try for another and another. I would not give any money until something has changed. Help her move and change her ways don't help her with the status quo.

Guilt is just one technique some people use to exert control over others, no different from bullying or intimidation in my opinion.

 

[Indigo Mule]

"The Ant and the Grasshopper." I never understood why the ant was expected to give the grasshopper a cushy free ride when the seasons turned.

 

[chris2008]

@jrwinfla: could you direct her to housing at alternative coop communities that share her lifestyle?

 

[Amethyst]

I suspect there's an unwritten part of the tale, where the grasshopper threatens to burn and raze the anthill if his demands aren't met.

Amethyst

"The Ant and the Grasshopper." I never understood why the ant was expected to give the grasshopper a cushy free ride when the seasons turned.

 

[jon-nyc]

That was certainly true in the Pixar version.

 

[haha]

Also a better portrayal of the dynamic of the modern welfare state. Surest way to get some money coming your way is to riot and burn.

Ha

 

[Walt34]

"The Ant and the Grasshopper." I never understood why the ant was expected to give the grasshopper a cushy free ride when the seasons turned.

That's the children's version. In the adult version the grasshopper starved, froze, and died.

 

[AnIntentionalRoad]

Worked my tail off 60 hours a week for 29 years. She has never worked a conventional job because "she doesn't want to take s*** from employers" and want to live a more "spiritual" life. Now she said she can't do any more of the work she does do because she is getting to old( I can relate).

Funny how those frees spirits don't mind mooching off those who DID take the s*** from their employers in order to build some financial security.

I wouldn't have any guilt over not supporting her financially. I would definitely support her emotionally and try to nudge her into better decisions.

 

[2035]

I'm 54 and looking to ER early next year. I've been planning and getting my financial ducks in a row trying to do everything I can to maximize my resources. Everything is looking like a go and then I got the phone call. My sister was so upset because her rent was just increased and she "doesn't know what she is going to do". I told her several months ago that I was going to retire because my job is taking a toll on my heath and I can't physically handle the work any more. Now comes the guilt because she truly does need help but... I've always been a saver and lived well below my means. Worked my tail off 60 hours a week for 29 years. She has never worked a conventional job because "she doesn't want to take s*** from employers" and want to live a more "spiritual" life. Now she said she can't do any more of the work she does do because she is getting to old( I can relate). I've had many discussions with her over the years about her need to get a job "on the books" so she has SS in the future. Well low and behold she is 60 now and looking at the minimum SS benefit. So now she wants to move into my 900sf house that I have paid off as part of my retirement plan. THAT is not going to work for me. We get along when we visit but I will not live with her. Her constant comments about what I eat and her wacked out theories about this and that would drive me crazy. We are getting together this Sunday it is not going to be a pleasant conversation. She is my Sister and I want to help but I will not sacrifice my happiness in retirement I have earned because she did not plan ahead. I may be the a******* here but I'm not going to do it. But I do feel guilty about it.

I feel your pain. I'm experiencing something similar with my mom. She never saves, we drive each urgent nuts and I fear that due to her poor planning and flakiness she'll end up on my door. Thankfully she has a small SS check to keep her head above water.

Help her find senior housing, other than that, you've paid your dues.


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[Greencheese]

Ah the free spirited person who is all lubbydubby right up until THEY need something...

 

[pb4uski]

DW has a friend who is much like your sister - she is chronically unemployed and when she is employed it is in low wage jobs and often under the table pay. I'm sure her SS will be minimal and she has no savings as she live paycheck to paycheck and not even good at that.

Nice "girl" and fun to socialize with, but she has no idea how screwed she is.

Luckily, she moved far away a few years ago and isn't a close enough friend that we need to worry about her showing up on our doorstep.

 

[ArkTinkerer]

That's the children's version. In the adult version the grasshopper starved, froze, and died.

Sort of off topic but did you every read the original Grimm's Fairy Tales? Much harsher time back then and the stories certainly prepared the children for the harsh realities of life!

 

[Jmo1969]

Bill gross is 70 and has > 1 billion dollars and just changed jobs. I think your sister can work for the next 10 yrs like you have for the last 29. Honestly, if work was fun they would
call it PLAY. She needs to take care of herself financially while she still has time. Spiritually she will be fine.


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