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Re: Hello!
Old 05-24-2006, 02:33 PM   #21
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Re: Hello!

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlg1977


BTW, Rich in Tampa, have you read "Rich Dad, Poor Dad"? I just finished it and he made me feel like a chump for going to school so long! He specifically mentioned physicians and their financial troubles 2 or 3 times in the book.
ACK! Kiosaki is a scam artist/hack/POS thief! He says nothing of substance in his books to get you to go to his 5k seminars where his Capos in shark suits and hands free microphones con you into spending more money. He attacks educated people as a sop to the ignorant fools who lap up his crap, it's his way of flattering them into buying his crap. "See? You were smart to drop out of high school and move into the trailer park, you positioned yourself for maximum financial leverage!". :P

An insult from him is the best kind of compliment.
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Re: Hello!
Old 05-24-2006, 02:39 PM   #22
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Re: Hello!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay_Gatsby
I've seen this type of calculation before, but instead of an 8-year gap, I would assume an 11-12 year gap (e.g., 21 years old versus 32 or 33 years old). *Although I don't necessarily doubt your numbers, the oncologists that I know didn't earn $350k right out of their residencies. *They did end up earning that kind of money after about 5 years of private practice (around 38-40 years old). *I would assert that a new 4-year college graduate who gets a few years under his/her belt and then opens up a business will do better than a physician based primarily on the time differential. *Unfortunately, very few college graduates are: (a) willing to do that, and (b) have the necessary business knowledge from their undergraduate majors (English and History are not the hotbeds of entreprenuers). *This is not to say that there aren't exceptions to the rule....
Jay, I think you may be neglecting what Nassim Taleb refers to as the randomizer in an occupation. Start a business and you may get rich, but you may fail. Not because you are dumb or have a bad work ethic, but just on account of chance.

Randomness plays a much smaller role in the professions, especially I would think in the medical profession where many specialists can earn very high salaries. They must one hopes be competent, but no stardom, great talent or unusual luck needed.

I would say that for pure money, deflated by the risk necessary to get it, medicine must be at the top of the heap.

I also think I would not want to be the patient of a doctor who chose his profession that way, and although I have no experience, I tend to agree with Rich that greed is probably not a terrific motivation to lead to happiness of the Doc either.

Ha
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Re: Hello!
Old 05-24-2006, 02:48 PM   #23
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Re: Hello!

Thanks for the advice everyone!

BTW, Rich, I cannot take credit for the binge analogy. It was in a book by Gillette Edmunds.

Carl
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Re: Hello!
Old 05-24-2006, 02:55 PM   #24
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Re: Hello!

One of my college roommates was in med school. I was working as a programmer part-time and came home driving a new 2-seater one day. He closed his eyes, covered his ears, and said "nya nya nya, I can't see or hear you!"

Later he became a neurologist and kicked my earnings-butt (but I'm pretty sure he's still working, and I'm not)!
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Re: Hello!
Old 05-24-2006, 03:29 PM   #25
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Re: Hello!

carlg, good on you for recognizing the potential pitfalls of the binge buying thing. It must be a powerful temptation after slaving away for all those years.

I saw first hand the ugly results of a new MD who fell jumped into that pit. He lived across the street from me while he finished up his schooling and then launched his own practice as an otolaryngologist. Our neighborhood was nice, but certainly nothing exceptional and my oldest daughter frequently babysat his kid. They drove average cars, a few years old.

As he was launching his new practice in 1991, they bought a new 5,000 sq ft home with a price tag at least four times that of his old house. In a month’s time, they moved into the new house, bought all new furniture (including a grand piano), a new $60,000 Mercedes sedan for her (he told my daughter how much it cost), a new Mitsubishi 300GT Turbo for himself, and a new pickup truck (told me he needed something to carry “stuff” in and it was a bargain compared to his other two cars…).

He declared bankruptcy less than two years later.


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Re: Hello!
Old 05-24-2006, 04:00 PM   #26
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Re: Hello!

carlg1977 -

As far as Rich Dad... is concerned, please read:* http://www.johntreed.com/Kiyosaki.html

Coincidentally, the author of that page, Real Estate guru critic John Reed, is interviewed in the latest Money magazine on Real Estate investing.
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Re: Hello!
Old 05-24-2006, 05:00 PM   #27
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Re: Hello!

Just downloaded a copy of "Four Pillars" to glance through while waiting for the book to come in. Looks like real solid stuff so far.



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Re: Hello!
Old 05-24-2006, 05:06 PM   #28
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Re: Hello!

As far as "Rich Dad" is concerned, I think he makes some good, but overstated and common sense, points. I do think that the book is basically a launching pad for his other products. I left it without any real insight or plan.

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Re: Hello!
Old 05-24-2006, 08:43 PM   #29
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Re: Hello!

carlg1977,

You can set up an automatic investment plan so that you can automatically have money withdrawn from you bank savings or checking account and invest it in any of the Vanguard funds. I think that it has to be a certain $ amont but you can easily change it on line if you get a raise or something like that.* All of the fund companies that I know of have similar programs.

I get paid every Thursday so I have some money withdrawn an invested every Friday.* My wife gets paid on the 15th and 31st of each month so I automatially invest another chunk of money on those dates.

MB
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Re: Hello!
Old 06-02-2006, 03:04 AM   #30
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Re: Hello!

Many of the 45+ year old physicians I know seem to be doing very well. The one factor common to almost all of them who are not so well off financially is a divorce. IMO, a long happy marriage is more important than making loads of money or perhaps even doing important work. It is also a very good financial "investment".
jc, RN
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Re: Hello!
Old 06-02-2006, 06:13 AM   #31
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Re: Hello!

Quote:
IMO, a long happy marriage is more important than making loads of money or perhaps even doing important work.
jc makes a VERY important point.

Pay attention to your marriage and keep the spouse.

Ed
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Re: Hello!
Old 06-02-2006, 06:14 AM   #32
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Re: Hello!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jclarksnakes
Many of the 45+ year old physicians I know seem to be doing very well.
The operative phrase (no pun intended) is "seem to be."

Depending on specialty and personal factors, that lavish lifestyle may be the very thing that keeps them from FIRE, or at least limits their FIRE to a much more modest lifestyle than they thought they wanted.

When I got to about age 40, I started to realize that many of my senior colleagues who just plodded along in practice well beyond age 65 fell into a few basic groups:

a. Those who truly loved the calling so much that they felt like saints when they were seeing patients (maybe 1%), and would die with their stethoscopes in their ears
b. Those whose personalities made them certain they were indispensable (a hard delusion to maintain as you age in this profession)
c. Those who lived large right along and, well, really couldn't afford their perceived necessary lifestyle on savings alone
d. Those who had nothing else to do, having lived a single-channel life since age 18.


I decided that none of the above were appealing that an ERBob style ER was best for me (even before I read his fine book). So, I started saving after my last loan repayment (better late than never), did some serious introspection about who I was, what I loved, and all that. Goal: continue practicing in a very part-time way, good financial manners, and a new era of exploration, freedom from work hassles and personal growth. We'll see.

Back to your original point: looks can be deceptive.

Shooting for FIRE in 3 years or so, around age 60.
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As if you didn't know..If the above message contains medical content, it's NOT intended as advice, and may not be accurate, applicable or sufficient. Don't rely on it for any purpose. Consult your own doctor for all medical advice.
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Re: Hello!
Old 06-02-2006, 10:49 AM   #33
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Re: Hello!

Rich,
...You make some very good points. When I said they seemed to be doing very well I was not specifically talking about lavish lifestyles. Many of the physicians I know are pretty square headed types who live like "normal" folks. They talk more about saving and investing than spending. The ones who live the stereotypical extravagant lifestyles are looked upon with humor by we nurses and their colleagues.
jc
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