Hello from Canada

[nancyfrank232]

I’m in my 40s, married with 1 child and I know that I can retire

Because I did retire. On a couple of occasions, and for 2 years each time, I retired and planned never to return to the workforce. But I was one of the unfortunate few who eventually became so bored in retirement that I went back to work

During these “Retire Early” trials I started going to bed later and later, until I found myself going to sleep when the sun came up. Personal grooming eventually fell off a cliff and I went out in my PJs (the pants at least, sometimes I wore a hoodie or jacket)

I also got lazy. With no schedule, I spent my time gaming, reading, eating and getting fat (Today I still game and read but I eat healthier and am no longer fat)

Travel became boring. The problem was that I was never a history or architecture buff. In yet another foreign city I commented to my DW that you could just replace all the street signs in whatever language you wanted and tell me that I was in whatever country - it all looked and felt the same. Same old churches, temples and buildings. Same restaurant feel - rustic or modern. Same materials/layout of hotels or bed and breakfast. Same airports and planes. Same tourist traps. All same. Beach vacations were worse. All same, but faster

I took up a couple hobbies, but none required 16 hours a day, every day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year, which is how much time I had

Friends suggested many things that I wouldn’t do even if somebody paid me - arts and crafts, clean the house, learn a language, learn an instrument, sit in a lecture hall, work around the home, gardening, hiking, etc. I would rather just go back to work if I had to do those things. I hate doing all those things

Another unforeseen problem was the lack of social interaction with co-workers and friends. And finding people in my 30s and 40s who weren’t busy with work, raising children or both was impossible. Nobody was able to meet with me during the free time that I had available - which was any time, all the time. They could only meet on weekends (maybe) or for lunch (infrequently)

The experience of retiring was priceless nonetheless. I now know what to expect

Financial Stuff

If there was a study to show that financial freedom is based on luck, I would be Exhibit A

My tax knowledge is low. My investing knowledge is slightly higher, but still low. I am carried 99% by my temperament and 1% by low-grade arithmetic

I typically work 20-24 hours a week at Fortune 500 MegaCorp. During a busy week I work 40. I’m efficient and work from home. I’m not an executive and don’t manage people. I would hate that. I don’t work for the pay. In fact I don’t spend any of it. It all gets banked (I’ll get to that later).

I have a NW of a little over $5m with no debt

I have US index funds, BRKb stock, US RE, my primary residence (CAN RE), and cash. Equity/RE/cash split is approximately 30%/60%/10%

I’m both a market timer and regular investor of low-fee US index funds via MegaCorp’s DCPP

I market timed a few things:

1. During the tech crash by buying BRBb pre-reverse-split from $2400 down to $1400

2. CAN RE during our real estate downturn in the 1990s

3. Low fee US index funds during the Great Recession (done in my Canadian Registered Retirement Savings Account and MegaCorp’s DCPP)

4. US rental real estate during the Great Recession. I achieved my goal of replacing my annual cashflow needs for my household with these rentals. That’s why I don’t really need to spend any of my pay from MegaCorp

I’ve tracked my annual spending for years and spend $6000/mo.

Retiring has given me a gift and that is a new found appreciation of working @MegaCorp. I’m a happier person now

I don’t plan to post much, I’m more of a lurker, but I’ll answer questions re: this topic or chat via PM

Best

[VanWinkle]

Hi nancyfrank232,

There is nothing wrong with being financial independent and not retired.
I'm glad you are market timing and still solvent. Your market timing
mentions the successes. Any failures in market timing?
You mention you are married, but you don't use the word "we". Do you
keep your savings separate from your spouse?

Welcome here and good luck with your financial independence.

VW

[kcowan]

Congratulations. It seems that you have evolved into a lifestyle that works for you.

You seem to have developed a good sense for timing various investments. Maybe you could start a thread on how you do that? Just expect to be attacked and ignore it.

Welcome to our forum. I think you will find many subjects of interest once you learn how to avoid US-focused ones.

We have been called the "lumpen slums of cyber space" by a fly over lawyer. Mostly due to strongly held beliefs he could not accept.

[joeea]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nancyfrank232 Because I did retire. On a couple of occasions, and for 2 years each time, I retired and planned never to return to the workforce. But I was one of the unfortunate few who eventually became so bored in retirement that I went back to work

Why two times? What was different the second time so that you thought things would be different?

Quote:

The experience of retiring was priceless nonetheless. I now know what to expect

So knowing what you now know about yourself, how will you decide when to retire? What will you do differently?

Quote:

My tax knowledge is low. My investing knowledge is slightly higher, but still low. I am carried 99% by my temperament and 1% by low-grade arithmetic

You don't have an adivser? If not, why not?

Quote:

I’m both a market timer... I market timed a few things

Why?

[NW-Bound]

We are free to pursue our happiness by any legal means. Some people find it in work. There's nothing wrong with that.

I would still do some part-time contracting work if I could stay away from office politics and rivalry, and if people left me alone to do it.

[Sunset]

Welcome, nice to hear a different viewpoint.

I've done a little work every year, and found it very interesting and socially fun to interact with the people.

Recently, it seems that they have forgotten about me, as it's been 6 months with no communication and I notice I feel a bit abandoned.

[Finance Dave]

Hi Nancy and welcome!

You've done very well planning and there's nothing wrong with continuing to work if you like it. It's just nice to know you can if you want, or that you can take on work for a "cause" and either ignore the pay (low wages) or bypass the pay (volunteer) if you want to in the future.

I'm in my first year of FIRE and know what you mean about going to bed later and so on lol. I let myself do it for a few months, but now I have plenty of things to keep me going that I enjoy....all the things you talk about that weren't enough for you to fill your days.

Maybe you can take some time and think about your legacy and how you want to achieve it. Good luck!

[nancyfrank232]

Quote:

Originally Posted by VanWinkle Hi nancyfrank232, There is nothing wrong with being financial independent and not retired. I'm glad you are market timing and still solvent. Your market timing mentions the successes. Any failures in market timing? You mention you are married, but you don't use the word "we". Do you keep your savings separate from your spouse? Welcome here and good luck with your financial independence. VW

Good point RE: use of “we”. We own everything together

RE: market timing. No failures yet. Likely because of the definition of market timing

On one hand, it can be said that I’m not market timing because if I don’t find anything worthwhile to invest in, I just stack cash. I’m not making any predictions (except that markets go up and down). I’m just not buying anything (except for the regular MegaCorp pension which automatically buys into a low-fee US index)

On the other hand, it can be argued that I’m timing the market because deciding not to invest is based on my evaluation of the market, and this is technically the definition of market timing

When Warren Buffett hoards $122 billion in cash or when he deploys billions during a downturn, some people will say that he is timing the market, and others will say that he isn’t

Personally I consider this to be timing the market

My investing/taxation knowledge level is low so my investing is 99% temperament and 1% basic arithmetic

[dirtbiker]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nancyfrank232 I’m in my 40s, married with 1 child and I know that I can retire Because I did retire. On a couple of occasions, and for 2 years each time, I retired and planned never to return to the workforce. But I was one of the unfortunate few who eventually became so bored in retirement that I went back to work During these “Retire Early” trials I started going to bed later and later, until I found myself going to sleep when the sun came up. Personal grooming eventually fell off a cliff and I went out in my PJs (the pants at least, sometimes I wore a hoodie or jacket) I also got lazy. With no schedule, I spent my time gaming, reading, eating and getting fat (Today I still game and read but I eat healthier and am no longer fat) Travel became boring. The problem was that I was never a history or architecture buff. In yet another foreign city I commented to my DW that you could just replace all the street signs in whatever language you wanted and tell me that I was in whatever country - it all looked and felt the same. Same old churches, temples and buildings. Same restaurant feel - rustic or modern. Same materials/layout of hotels or bed and breakfast. Same airports and planes. Same tourist traps. All same. Beach vacations were worse. All same, but faster I took up a couple hobbies, but none required 16 hours a day, every day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year, which is how much time I had Friends suggested many things that I wouldn’t do even if somebody paid me - arts and crafts, clean the house, learn a language, learn an instrument, sit in a lecture hall, work around the home, gardening, hiking, etc. I would rather just go back to work if I had to do those things. I hate doing all those things Another unforeseen problem was the lack of social interaction with co-workers and friends. And finding people in my 30s and 40s who weren’t busy with work, raising children or both was impossible. Nobody was able to meet with me during the free time that I had available - which was any time, all the time. They could only meet on weekends (maybe) or for lunch (infrequently) The experience of retiring was priceless nonetheless. I now know what to expect Financial Stuff If there was a study to show that financial freedom is based on luck, I would be Exhibit A My tax knowledge is low. My investing knowledge is slightly higher, but still low. I am carried 99% by my temperament and 1% by low-grade arithmetic I typically work 20-24 hours a week at Fortune 500 MegaCorp. During a busy week I work 40. I’m efficient and work from home. I’m not an executive and don’t manage people. I would hate that. I don’t work for the pay. In fact I don’t spend any of it. It all gets banked (I’ll get to that later). I have a NW of a little over $5m with no debt I have US index funds, BRKb stock, US RE, my primary residence (CAN RE), and cash. Equity/RE/cash split is approximately 30%/60%/10% I’m both a market timer and regular investor of low-fee US index funds via MegaCorp’s DCPP I market timed a few things: 1. During the tech crash by buying BRBb pre-reverse-split from $2400 down to $1400 2. CAN RE during our real estate downturn in the 1990s 3. Low fee US index funds during the Great Recession (done in my Canadian Registered Retirement Savings Account and MegaCorp’s DCPP) 4. US rental real estate during the Great Recession. I achieved my goal of replacing my annual cashflow needs for my household with these rentals. That’s why I don’t really need to spend any of my pay from MegaCorp I’ve tracked my annual spending for years and spend $6000/mo. Retiring has given me a gift and that is a new found appreciation of working @MegaCorp. I’m a happier person now I don’t plan to post much, I’m more of a lurker, but I’ll answer questions re: this topic or chat via PM Best

Thanks for this very interesting post. Before you retired for the first time, did you yearn to travel, not work, do hobbies, etc.? And then we're surprised to find out you got bored? Or were you always more or less content?

[RunningBum]

Interesting that you work from home, but didn't get the same social interaction in retirement. I worked from home for my last 10 years. When I started doing that I joined some clubs that matched my interests, like running and skiing, to get the social interaction I lost from not being in an office. In retirement, I find I get more because I'm not committed to work hours. But you may not have any interests this would work for. What do you do when you aren't working?

[nancyfrank232]

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeea Why two times? What was different the second time so that you thought things would be different

I quit the workforce after rushing to retirement in my early 30s. I didn’t have a plan and didn’t know what I needed

So I travelled a bit and picked up some hobbies, but the interest in these things didn’t last. Everything that seniors told me that they liked doing in retirement, I found dull and uninteresting

I also learned that I didn’t really like liquidating my investments to fund my retirement

This first mini retirement taught me that perhaps I shouldn’t listen to retirees for travel and hobby ideas, to be more introspective and determine what I wanted to do, to add more socializing with family and friends and to find a way to fund it all with cash flow instead of asset liquidations

With those goals in mind, I went back to work to address what I thought I needed in retirement

My second attempt was a few years after the credit crisis in the US.

Canada was unscathed and during the Great Recession, I found the Canadian dollar and the US dollar at par and US real estate prices in the ditch. I started buying US real estate to get the cash flow that I thought I needed for retirement. I bought enough rental real estate to completely replace my household income

My thinking was that this second time around, my retirement would be carried by rental income, and my US index/BRKb portfolio would be allowed to compound undisturbed

In the second retirement I learned that I don’t care for travel (outside of short two week change-of-scenery trips). This was when I was in another foreign city with unfamiliar signage and mentioned to my spouse that you could replace the signage with any language and tell me we were in a different country and it would be the same

I tried meeting my friends, but that’s impossible. Most 30 and 40 year olds are busy working and taking care of their kids, so they would only meet me infrequently over lunch (and only if I travelled to their place of work) or on odd weekends when they weren’t taking their kids to activities

And surprisingly the hobbies that I chose for myself became boring. For example, I like reading, and I downloaded newsreaders and Flipboard and started reading. A lot. At first, many articles and stories were new and interesting, but just like the movies or music, if you consume it in enough quantity, you started seeing recycled themes and ideas

I also tried hanging out with my retired parents a lot more. After all, everybody always tells me that family is the most important thing to them and that they wish they had spent more time with their mom/dad. Well, apparently hanging out with your parents every day for a couple months can get outright annoying, and like travel, I learned that there was a reason I only enjoyed it if it was done in short doses

Will I retire again? Probably. I’m sure employers will force me to retire at some point. But until then, I’m digging work. I’m happier than I’ve ever been at work because I’ve experienced the other side. The retirement side. And they’re right, the grass isn’t greener

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeea So knowing what you now know about yourself, how will you decide when to retire? What will you do differently?

Good question. I currently have customers I completely understand when they say that they won’t retire because they wouldn’t know what to do with themselves. In the past, I would’ve wrote them off as crazy, but not any more. I no longer see retirement and work as separate phases. Once the need for money is out of the equation, whatever a person enjoys doing is it

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeea You don't have an adivser? If not, why not? Why?

I don’t have any financial needs and no advisor has articulated how I would benefit from taking them on

I think I would benefit from speaking with an estate/tax lawyer and that’s in the plan. Maybe when I reach my 50s

[Starsky]

You are a smart international investor. I lived in TO for 4 years and found many interesting opportunities to make money between the countries by taking advantage of the exchange rate with Canada.
Around the millennium, I watched the rate move up to $1.65CAD/$USD and ultimately back to $1; and was living there when real estate was still very cheap. There was huge opportunity for assets appreciation and exchange rate appreciation. I really wish I could have kept my place in Oakville and brought more RE. Unfortunately, at the time, my contract ran out and I was too cash-poor to hang onto my home there.
Congrats on your success! I understand why you would want to go back to work, and it's great you can do something you enjoy. I have found my interest in some lifelong hobbies have waned, and it can become easy and more comfortable to say "no" to things. I retired at 53 and also have noticed how hard it is to be social when all your friends are at their jobs and not accessible. I'm sure it's much harder at a younger age.
For me, the pressure of my last management position poisoned the well. My experience was not in a 'happy' kind of social environment. (It will take me awhile to get over the experience, even to the point of w@#king part-time.) YMMV.
You are lucky to live in such a wonderful country. Enjoy!

[nancyfrank232]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtbiker Thanks for this very interesting post. Before you retired for the first time, did you yearn to travel, not work, do hobbies, etc.? And then we're surprised to find out you got bored? Or were you always more or less content?

The first time I just wanted to get away from work and travel. I also had a few hobbies, but none that could take up 16 hours a day, every day, 7 days a week. When you retire there are a ton of hours to fill

I was surprised at being bored the first time. The second time I recognized that being bored would happen but was unable to find enough things to do to occupy all the time that I had

The important thing for me is not to have goals. A goal has an endpoint that results in boredom after Ive achieved it.

Work is perfect for me because it fulfils me socially, engages me intellectually and has no goal or defined endpoint. Getting paid is just a symptom of the work. It’s the perfect “hobby” for me

[nancyfrank232]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunningBum Interesting that you work from home, but didn't get the same social interaction in retirement. I worked from home for my last 10 years. When I started doing that I joined some clubs that matched my interests, like running and skiing, to get the social interaction I lost from not being in an office. In retirement, I find I get more because I'm not committed to work hours. But you may not have any interests this would work for. What do you do when you aren't working?

I should clarify “work from home”. As an account manager (sales) I have a home office, but I’m typically not sitting at home. My time is typically spent socializing with clients at their place of business

I don’t have typical work hours. My hours are flexible and I tend to arrange lunch meetings with my customers because I need to spend time eating anyway. It’s very flexible yet it has some structure to it.

When I retired my time became too flexible with significantly less structure. I tried to increase socialization with friends and family. That didn’t pan out because my friends were all busy at work and/or raising their kids and hanging out with my parents was only good in short doses

The best I could do was meet my friends/parents over breakfast/lunch once week. That was a steep drop off from socializing with customers and colleagues every day

I tried some hobbies, but again, most of the hobbies recommended to me were boring. This should be expected because they’re someone else’s idea of fun, not mine. And the hobbies that I had (working out, reading, etc) didn’t require 16 hours a day, 7 days a week. Working out was 1 hour a day and reading was 1-2 hours a day. There was lots of time left over

Other hobbies that people suggested like landscaping/gardening, cleaning the house, chores, etc. These are things that I wouldn’t know how to do or want to do. I would pay to have these things done. I wouldn’t consider them hobbies

What am I doing when I’m not working?

I’m pretty much doing the same things that I did when I wasn’t working. That is, working out, reading, meeting my friends/family, and driving my child to activities. The only difference is that the hours of boredom in retirement is replaced with coffee or lunch, socializing with customers or colleagues