Hi everyone

[Marvyt]

Hello everyone. I have been reading these boards for several months and I think that I could retire right now if necessary. I have used FireCalc to figure my "safe withdraw rate" and that rate will give me more than Dory36's 33percent rule. It appears that I can retire on about half of what I had thought was needed. Firecalc and these message boards are a treasure trove of information for potential early retirees. Hopefully, I can make some solid contributions to these discussions. 8) 8)

[trumpeting_angel]

I think it's frightful that the entire financial services industry has scared so many people. I think most of us have been so cowed by the "you need 80 - 90% of income to retire" rule that we just quit calculating and kept working.

Anyhow, glad to have you aboard! Congratulations on saving well and being able to get off the treadmill!

Anne

I was not "cowed" by the 80-90% mantra.
Just milked my job for all I could and hoped I wouldn't get caught on the horns of a dilemma. I didn't get creamed or slaughtered in the market although I was grazed
by a few bad decisions. Anyway, I can now be
disgustingly bovine as behooves a real ER.

John Galt

[JonnyM]

As I study FIRE more and more I'm finding an element of self fullfulling prophecy in its success. Even those that are ultra conservative, that just makes success more evident, albeit that demographic may pay a bit more in time or emotion.

My continuing polls of a fairly large workforce within my building (>1,000) in various stages of their careers tends to indicate little or no thought goes into retirement at all during the early years. Later most buy into the 70-80 percent myth without question and work themselves into their late 50's or early 60's minimum.

The irony is the few that "get" ER , that is to say get what the "E" in ER or FIRE stands for already know how to live on much less than that 70-80%. That group has gotten used to savings large chunks in their 457 deffered comp plan to dodge the taxes, and their typical NET take home is less than 50% anyway, and for years ongoing. 70-80% would be a huge raise for the ER focus group.

My own case:

Goal to FIRE in 2 years at age 51.
As a percentage of gross salary I'll receive about 39%.
As a percentage of current take home pay it's more like 76%.

Tax bite will be strikingly lower. I've got 457 tax deferred nestegg that I shouldn't even need to touch for a while as backup. Pension is Inflation Indexed, Medical Coverage is paid in full and guarranteed.

All these wonderful benefits are available to everyone I work with and if anything have only been enhanced in recent years. You'd think I'd have a easy time spreading the word and making converts in my workplace. Suprisingly, not so.



I think the other side of the coin is people that live for stuff/things/big house,flashy cars, credit card debt, well beyond their means:

Don't get used to saving any money for the future, instead learn how to refinance mortages (a bubble soon to burst) and can't picture or even conceive of powering down the lifestyle, and therefore resent any talk of the R part of ER/FIRE as it implies giving up something they cherish.

Of course I could be wrong

[mickeyd]

Hey there Marvyt, I undrestand that you are unsure about dryer sheets, or at least that is what part of your post indicates.

Welcome to this place. Make sure that you add it to your favorites.

If you feel that you are ready to retire...you are.

[trumpeting_angel]

I was not "cowed" by the 80-90% mantra.
Just milked my job for all I could and hoped I wouldn't get caught on the horns of a dilemma. *I didn't get *creamed or slaughtered in the market although I was grazed
by a few bad decisions. *Anyway, I can now be
disgustingly *bovine as behooves a real ER. *

John Galt

OK, OK, this has to be MY fault. I AM the one who said "cowed." But it wasn't my turn to watch him!

Anne

[trumpeting_angel]

All these wonderful benefits are available to everyone I work with and if anything have only been enhanced in recent years. You'd think I'd have a easy time spreading the word and making converts in my workplace. Suprisingly, not so.

JonnyM, a vast culture is working against them, against their ability to see it. Every TV commercial, every stroll through the mall, every neighbor with a bigger SUV or, I suppose, Hummer (what are they THINKING??) . . . our culture seems to me to be devoted to keeping us mindlessly consuming, wanting more and more, and feeling emptier and emptier in the process. The emphasis on material consumption is damaging to us financially and spiritually.

I understand this in twenty-somethings; they haven't lived long enough to sort out all of their priorities and should be forgiven a little foolishness. But in one's 40's and 50's? One would hope for some wisdom to resist, or at least the smarts to notice that you're working way too hard for stuff that you throw away soon.

It's a powerful culture, though, and it has its claws in most Americans, I think.

Anne

Hello Anne! Well, it still has it's claws in me. Right now
I am looking at a major purchase (large boat), which of course will come with a bunch of built in expenses for
as long as I own it. So, why do it? After all, I can't eat it
wear it or live in it (well maybe if it was big enough).
Anyway, as my favored activities drop off (inevitable
as we age) boating and fishing have kind of become my primary passtimes. So, I justify it on those grounds.
But, do I really need another boat? No way...............

John Galt

[JonnyM]

Hello Anne! Well, it still has it's claws in me. Right now
I am looking at a major purchase (large boat), which of course will come with a bunch of built in expenses for
as long as I own it. So, why do it? After all, I can't eat it
wear it or live in it (well maybe if it was big enough).
Anyway, as my favored activities drop off (inevitable
as we age) boating and fishing have kind of become my primary passtimes. So, I justify it on those grounds.
But, do I really need another boat? No way...............

John Galt

I had this theory to justify all the toy accumulation I've been doing these past few years, ok decade: I have to get the stuff now while I'm working before I power down and start living on less. OK, I get it now, I'm completely full of it. On the other hand, most of my toys keep their value and will be tradeable, but I'm still full of it, because I won't really want to trade most of 'em unless physically I become unable to use them anymore. Toys bring me joy. So in a lucid moment I've adjusted my FIRE plan a bit to build in a toy fund, or whatever you want to call if for non-essential things that we consider just plain fun. Money's outside of living expenses. It's not like it's a new a different income stream, it's a mindset in calling this account the "Toy" fund that matters to this little boy.


John, will the boat bring you joy? Get the boat John.

[trumpeting_angel]

Well, John, you're already ER, and obviously you need something to keep you busy so you don't run out and invest in more real estate!

Somehow I doubt you're quite the mindless consumer, following the pack, who I was trying to describe.

Have fun with the boat!

Anne

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Well of course the financial industry tells you it takes 90%+ of your pre retirement income to live. If they told you that you could make it on less, you'd stop working, stop making money, stop giving it to them, and start taking money away from them monthly instead.

And who wants that?

Except us of course.