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Old 06-27-2014, 03:05 PM   #61
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I have been a member of this board for years, and I value and appreciate all of the great insights and comments that I read on here on almost a daily basis. However, I think some people on here tend to get a bit smug about their view of life as superior to others. The fact of the matter is different people have different views about what they want out of life, and there is no right and wrong way to live. If someone wants to keep working, for whatever reason, whether it be money, prestige, power, whatever, who are we to judge them? If that is their choice, it is not our place to judge them for making a "wrong" choice. Isn't this a free country? How is judging someone for continuing to work any different from them judging you for not working?
I think that it is human nature that people do tend to do that. In this situation I think there are two issues:

1. The original poster wants to retire. Now, I agree that she doesn't get to choose for her husband when he retires. To me, the answer to that is easy given their finances reported her. She retires and he keeps working. The thing that bothers me there is her saying her husband doesn't like her to do things with others when she is off by herself. In that situation, then I would say that if it was me I would just retire and my husband would just have to deal with his feelings (and maybe go to counseling together if it was a real problem).

2. This is not a situation where the OP is posting that her husband loves his job and doesn't want to retire. If that was the case, then I think she and he need to discuss it and see if there is a compromise to be made. Maybe he could reduce his hours or take more vacations, etc. But, in this case, she says her husband hates his job, is stressed and miserable and has job-related health issues. The reason he won't quit is because of financial concerns that are not rationally based. In that situation, if it was me, I would wonder if my husband was suffering from an actual anxiety disorder. Seeing a therapist or maybe even medication might be appropriate. I'm not saying that just because he doesn't want to retire. Loving your job is fine. But she says he hates his job and is miserable in it. If she is right (and she may not be) then I would wonder about anxiety. Again, maybe seeing a therapist or joint counseling would illuminate the issues.
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Old 06-27-2014, 03:37 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Katsmeow View Post
But, in this case, she says her husband hates his job, is stressed and miserable and has job-related health issues. The reason he won't quit is because of financial concerns that are not rationally based.
That is not the whole story. Go back and look at my post where I suggested that the husband may have a completely different take on the issue and may post something completely different.... and see that the OP agreed with me.

Even if it is true that he is miserable, maybe he just likes being miserable. I have known people like that, and you can't change them and make them not be miserable.
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Old 06-27-2014, 03:39 PM   #63
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Have to go with katsmeow here.

I have seen people who love working, and working hard. Let's call them border collies . They whither away as soon as there is nothing to do! I am really happy they exist, if society was built on the likes of me .. oh dear

Gathering from OP's perspective though, it does not seem that DH is a border collie, or at least he's in the wrong activity.
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Old 06-27-2014, 04:08 PM   #64
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In a perfect world a couple would discuss their goals and desires and come to a workable solution that both parties are comfortable with. Sadly it's not a perfect world.

I'm not sure which is more disheartening; not having the same expectations and/or working this out as a team, or believing that you are not being truly heard by your DH and that your opinion and happiness not valued. Essentially by understanding your desire and still not retiring he is saying "sorry... but I come first". On the flip side however, you may be guilty of the same by demanding that he retire when he clearly doesn't want to. You can't control his actions; you only get to be in charge of yourself. You can however, spin your decision in a positive way and he may come around.

Retire and live it up. You are not obliged to wait for him to keep you company. Keep this is a positive light and he may watch you and change his tune. Personally, I would think long and hard about delivering ultimatums regarding retirement - most folks don't react positively when pushed into a corner.

If the goal is to have you both retired and still together then you'll need to proceed in a way that doesn't undermine your relationship. You can always lawyer-up another year....
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Old 06-27-2014, 04:13 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by JustCurious View Post
That is not the whole story. Go back and look at my post where I suggested that the husband may have a completely different take on the issue and may post something completely different.... and see that the OP agreed with me.

Even if it is true that he is miserable, maybe he just likes being miserable. I have known people like that, and you can't change them and make them not be miserable.
But he is married and not taking care of his health because of his job. His health is his wife's business especially if he becomes an invalid and she has to take care of him. She also said he doesn't want her to quit and be able do what she enjoys.
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Old 06-27-2014, 04:36 PM   #66
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Based on your side of the story, DH's job is killing him. The problem may be neatly resolved any day now when he keels over and dies of a heart attack, leaving you a very rich widow.
This is true. Tell him you would love to experience the rest of your life with him but if he keeps working like this he's going to keel over dead. That means your NEW SECOND HUSBAND is going to really enjoy traveling with you and helping you spend all the money that he is adding by continuing to work!
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Old 06-27-2014, 05:12 PM   #67
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Try and visualize you are both retiring tomorrow and both agree on it. Would you foresee a happy retirement for you both? The issues you are talking about seem that they could continue into retirement. Only difference is you wouldn't have jobs to occupy most of your time. More time together for conflict and strife to fill the time. It seems like you have more assets than you could ever spend. But money doesn't seem to be the issue anyway. I wish you the best in finding a resolution. If you decide on counseling, I would try and focus it on how you could retire together with a happy future.
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Old 06-27-2014, 07:56 PM   #68
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Please also bookmark this: happy wife, happy life.
What does that look like to you with your H retired?

What does that look like to you if he continues to work for whatever reasons he has

t/j in my case my mother passed away at 55 from an extremely aggressive cancer, no warning and it has skewed me to RE maybe sooner than we should but if I follow in her footsteps I have ten years to take advantage of the "good life". My H adored my mom so we are both on the same page. end t/j
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Old 06-27-2014, 09:39 PM   #69
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Based on the OP's first post, I thought she was not comfortable retiring alone just because her DH would resent her ER. But later reading her comments and replies, she seems to have some good brain and hopefully will go with her plan and just retire and see what happens. She apparently doesn't sound too concerned if that leads to a divorce (hopefully to marriage counseling only) which is kind of understandable because she hardly ever sees him anyway, except his money. How many hours does he work anyway (including from home)? Just curious.

So, I'd say either retire yourself and see what happens or try to find a (marriage) counselor with a specialty in personal finance first and get a professional perspective on your life/ER/choices.
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How do you convince your spouse to RE?
Old 06-27-2014, 11:43 PM   #70
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How do you convince your spouse to RE?

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Retire and live it up. You are not obliged to wait for him to keep you company.
+1

Until recently, my wife was not at all interested in the concept of early retirement. I had been dreaming of ER for many years and when the opportunity to make it a reality came in 2010, it was simply out of the question for me to let it pass because DW was not ready. So I left my career and DW continued on her professional track. It has worked great - for the both of us.

DW is a workaholic. She has very few hobbies and always find an excuse not to indulge in them. We have not gone once on vacation in the past 13 years. She would take at most 2 weeks off per year (mostly to visit family during the holidays). She'd spend her weekends either working or sleeping. And she'd travel a lot for business (sometimes gone weeks at a time), etc... Basically, our life was dictated by her work schedule.

This is changing, slowly. DW was traveling back and forth between our home in the south and her company's headquarters in California on a biweekly basis. So we moved out west, down the street from HQ. With little to no commute, she had more time to unwind at night and her business travels dropped almost 90%. That alone made a huge difference. Then I started pushing her to take all the paid vacation days that she was earning (her company's policy is use it or lose it). Combined with official holidays, it meant that she had to take almost 8 weeks off per year (unthinkable!). During her time off, I would really make it a point to do a lot of fun stuff with her. I got her into hiking and photography. She's enjoying the beach too. I am starting to see that the ER bug is taking hold. When I go on a hike by myself during the week, she sometimes gets envious. And now she is looking forward to her days off! Lots of cool activities planned around the 4th of July. And our first real vacation together planned for September!

Each couple is different and I don't know what will work for your husband. But if you lead by enjoying your own retirement, I think you might be able to make an impact. The last thing I want to do is give DW an ultimatum to retire. What if she hates retirement? Then I would be responsible for breaking her career. I don't want to have that on my conscience. I will let her walk to the light at her own pace.
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Old 06-28-2014, 09:17 AM   #71
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@FIREd: excellent strategy!
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Old 06-28-2014, 04:12 PM   #72
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Nice plan. Way to go!
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Old 06-28-2014, 07:13 PM   #73
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+1

DW is a workaholic. She has very few hobbies and always find an excuse not to indulge in them. We have not gone once on vacation in the past 13 years. She would take at most 2 weeks off per year (mostly to visit family during the holidays). She'd spend her weekends either working or sleeping. And she'd travel a lot for business (sometimes gone weeks at a time), etc... Basically, our life was dictated by her work schedule.

This is changing, slowly. DW was traveling back and forth between our home in the south and her company's headquarters in California on a biweekly basis. So we moved out west, down the street from HQ. With little to no commute, she had more time to unwind at night and her business travels dropped almost 90%. That alone made a huge difference. Then I started pushing her to take all the paid vacation days that she was earning (her company's policy is use it or lose it).
Very effective strategy, FIREd! Well planned and executed. Obviously DW, while very effective at her job, needed you to manage her schedule. Clearly the move was key to achieving a better quality of life. The strain of long distance travel cannot be overestimated. Now that she is off that particular treadmill she has more time to enjoy with you and to think about life beyond w*rk. You are a good DH!
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Old 06-29-2014, 06:54 AM   #74
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Very effective strategy, FIREd! Well planned and executed. Obviously DW, while very effective at her job, needed you to manage her schedule. Clearly the move was key to achieving a better quality of life. The strain of long distance travel cannot be overestimated. Now that she is off that particular treadmill she has more time to enjoy with you and to think about life beyond w*rk. You are a good DH!
+1
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Old 06-29-2014, 07:29 AM   #75
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I'm finishing up some training on influencing people, and some of the things the instructor stressed were:
1. Go into conversations with an open mind and heart;
2. Be curious about your DH - tell him you want to understand him, and ask why it's important to him to keep working;
3. Remember that he's a person, not an object to boss around.

The trick is to really honestly do these things. Ask him to tell you why it's important. Ask open-ended, non-leading questions if you need clarification. And then keep your mouth shut. Don't give any opinions, just tell him you'd like a few days to digest what he has said. You may be surprised at what you hear, and the extra insight into your husband's mind.

I also recommend visiting a professional as a neutral third party. If both partners go to a counselor with an honest desire to improve the relationship, it can be very helpful. And if he won't go with you, go alone.

Then and only then would I recommend just retiring and letting him deal with his own feelings. If he isn't practiced at doing this already, it's a little too much like throwing a kid into the deep end of the pool to teach them to swim.

Divorce is a last resort. I know people can be really flippant online, but don't even let the word cross your lips until all other options have been tried and you're both still miserable.
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Old 06-30-2014, 07:08 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Maenad View Post
I'm finishing up some training on influencing people, and some of the things the instructor stressed were:
1. Go into conversations with an open mind and heart;
2. Be curious about your DH - tell him you want to understand him, and ask why it's important to him to keep working;
3. Remember that he's a person, not an object to boss around.

The trick is to really honestly do these things. Ask him to tell you why it's important. Ask open-ended, non-leading questions if you need clarification. And then keep your mouth shut. Don't give any opinions, just tell him you'd like a few days to digest what he has said. You may be surprised at what you hear, and the extra insight into your husband's mind.

I also recommend visiting a professional as a neutral third party. If both partners go to a counselor with an honest desire to improve the relationship, it can be very helpful. And if he won't go with you, go alone.

Then and only then would I recommend just retiring and letting him deal with his own feelings. If he isn't practiced at doing this already, it's a little too much like throwing a kid into the deep end of the pool to teach them to swim.

Divorce is a last resort. I know people can be really flippant online, but don't even let the word cross your lips until all other options have been tried and you're both still miserable.
Excellent, excellent advice.
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Old 07-09-2014, 12:00 PM   #77
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Young men, bookmark this thread so you can review it when you are considering marriage.

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Young women should bookmark it too. Marriage is a trap.
I just now look at the thread. What I see is that the husband makes $500K/yr, the wife makes $120K. Networth is $8M. Assuming that they have been at their job for a while, the husband contributes the most to the NW. Now, if they get divorced, the wife gets 1/2. If it is a trap, it's not a bad trap!

What I see is that it is a compatibility issue. One is a workaholic, the other is more laid back. This has been going on for a while, else they cannot get two nice homes paid for. And the ongoing expenses may be a lot higher than for ordinary people. Perhaps that's why the husband is afraid to scale back his income, or rather just drop it as no part-time work is feasible. It takes time to adjust. It's too hard to downshift from overdrive to 1st gear. They have my sympathy, but I do not know what to say, other than for the wife to continue to persuade her husband.
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Old 08-19-2014, 09:30 PM   #78
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Just wanted to give a quick update since my last post couple months ago.
After several serious talks with DH, he finally agreed/promised to RETIRE in just 3 years. Yay!
As for me, I recently got a major promotion at work. It's bitter sweet: I was really looking forward to ER, but at the same time I love the feeling of career as well as self accomplishment... you get the picture. The promotion will allow me to travel globally quite a bit, which I love. So I've decided (well, almost) to stick with my job for another 3 years, and see where it leads me...
In 2017, 3 years from now we will revisit/materialize our ER plan: downsize to 1 home, plan long global trips 2-3 times a year, snowbird in the winter months, and enjoy/develop hobbies...
The funny thing is, after trying so hard and so long to convince DH to retire, I may decide to stay with my job even after DH retires! My job is quite stable, provides very decent benefits, and now gives me great travel opportunities, DH can go on my health insurance (which is better than his current one provided by his mega crop) and tag along when I go on business trips.
Well, we shall see... But for now, things seem to work out pretty well. Thanks a lot everyone for your help and suggestions! Love this forum!
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Old 08-20-2014, 12:39 AM   #79
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The funny thing is, after trying so hard and so long to convince DH to retire, I may decide to stay with my job even after DH retires
fast forward to here, and a happy ending...
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Old 08-20-2014, 06:26 AM   #80
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Just wanted to give a quick update since my last post couple months ago.
I may decide to stay with my job even after DH retires! My job is quite stable, provides very decent benefits, and now gives me great travel opportunities, DH can go on my health insurance (which is better than his current one provided by his mega crop) and tag along when I go on business trips.
Welcome to the OMY club! I've been a long standing member myself but will be leaving the club this coming January. On the plus side of OMY, it pretty much guarantees you with more than enough money to retire except for a financial collapse of the country as we know it. On the downside, it's rather obious. You're still working.

Eventually, even all the trapping of you working will grow old no matter how much you're promoted and pampered. Good luck.
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