How do you convince your spouse to RE?

[Totoro]

The issue is not the money, that's for sure. The fact that you get into trouble for not working when DH is, seems a big tell.

Maybe find out what's behind that. Could be keeping up with neighbors, I know a guy making over a million a year who feels inadequate because his hedge fund buddies make a multiple of that. Or he has been doing this for so long, might not see the alternatives. The life you talk about, however miserable it may be, is hard to get away from.

Financially you would have a $200k / $8M = 2.5% withdrawal rate. Or a different look, every year you work adds +/- 5% to net worth. What difference does that still make?

Maybe try a joint sabbatical of six months? Doubt you can talk to him right now, he's high-alert stress mode all the time.

Just some thoughts, not sure if they help.

[Chuckanut]

This quote is attributed to the late Howard Hughes though I can't verify it:

"Anybody who thinks money is more valuable than time, needs to talk to a rich, old man."

[daylatedollarshort]

I was flipping through a magazine yesterday and came across an article on the VC firms funding start ups in Silicon Valley and how many billions a lot of the VC partners were making, and how they were always on the look out for new companies that met their criteria. The article described one partner as driven by fear and talked about how aggressive he would get with the start up founders who delivered their pitch presentation to him looking for funding. The meetings sounded just horrible, filled with tension and intentional bullying to see how the founders would hold up to the stress.

I just thought wow, all the people in the article sounded like they were highly stressed and one cheeseburger away from a heart attack, and all that money and they aren't using it to buy tranquility or happiness. If the first billion doesn't buy happiness and security, I don't think they are going to find it in the second billion.

[ER1970]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliforniaMan I have known people making that kind of money, even older that cannot consider retiring. They have been FI for a long time, but retirement is not something even on their radar. One thing I think is that 500K/yr people hang out with other 500K or 1M people and that has a profound effect on their thinking and emotions. Status seeking can be a profound motivator, and stress a powerful and addictive drug. Don't know if this is your DH's issue, but always hanging out with similar types can be a real trap. And if he is at work or thinking about work most of his waking hours, it is hard to escape.

You nailed this one for sure! It's definitely DH's huge problem-- hanging out with fellows that are in similar situation, high earning but miserable and intense. Once a friend of his said something like, he is miserable at work but won't consider retiring and moving to a lower-cost area because he would be seen as "a loser" if he did. Stupid comment IMO, but you are right it can influence DH's mindset, big time.

[ER1970]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unpaintedhuffhines So I decided about a year ago to take a one year sabbatical. I wouldn't surprise me if that one year turned into forever. It has been the most stress free time of my life, and I absolutely love it.

Good for you! So glad to hear you were in a similar situation and was brave enough to put a stop to it. How old were you when you decided enough is enough, if I may ask?

[Meadbh]

I'm not married, so anything I say should be taken with a grain of salt. And forgive me if I appear blunt. I tend to call a spade a spade.

Based on your side of the story, DH's job is killing him. The problem may be neatly resolved any day now when he keels over and dies of a heart attack, leaving you a very rich widow. Of course, if it's a non fatal stroke, you could end up a caregiver with a declining portfolio. He has $$$$ in disability insurance, I hope??

You say you have attempted to reason with him to no avail. Fair enough; he is too enmeshed in his position of power and influence, and he feels so important that he expects you to wait on him. Time to bring in some ammunition. Demand marriage counseling. Use an objective facilitator to mediate a solution that meets both your needs. At a minimum, this should include a more balanced schedule and individual vacations for you. If he is still intransigent, tell him you are leaving him. Hire a good lawyer. You should get a nice divorce settlement. You deserve it, because he could not have earned all that money without your support.

[haha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ER1970 You nailed this one for sure! It's definitely DH's huge problem-- hanging out with fellows that are in similar situation, high earning but miserable and intense. Once a friend of his said something like, he is miserable at work but won't consider retiring and moving to a lower-cost area because he would be seen as "a loser" if he did. Stupid comment IMO, but you are right it can influence DH's mindset, big time.

If retiring means a mandatory move to a lower cost area, at least from one way of looking at it, he was not exactly ready to retire.


Ha

[ER1970]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meadbh I'm not married, so anything I say should be taken with a grain of salt. And forgive me if I appear blunt. I tend to call a spade a spade. Based on your side of the story, DH's job is killing him. The problem may be neatly resolved any day now when he keels over and dies of a heart attack, leaving you a very rich widow. Of course, if it's a non fatal stroke, you could end up a caregiver with a declining portfolio. He has $$$$ in disability insurance, I hope?? You say you have attempted to reason with him to no avail. Fair enough; he is too enmeshed in his position of power and influence, and he feels so important that he expects you to wait on him. Time to bring in some ammunition. Demand marriage counseling. Use an objective facilitator to mediate a solution that meets both your needs. At a minimum, this should include a more balanced schedule and individual vacations for you. If he is still intransigent, tell him you are leaving him. Hire a good lawyer. You should get a nice divorce settlement. You deserve it, because he could not have earned all that money without your support.

Yes $$$ in disability insurance. No lawyer yet, but shouldn't have problem finding a good one if the need arises.
Thanks for the suggestions! Although blunt, they are honestly the bottom lines here if things don't change or improve.

[haha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ER1970 Yes $$$ in disability insurance. No lawyer yet, but shouldn't have problem finding a good one if the need arises. Thanks for the suggestions! Although blunt, they are honestly the bottom lines here if things don't change or improve.

The money advice here is sometimes good, sometimes not. But the personal advice is often less than wise.

Young men, bookmark this thread so you can review it when you are considering marriage.

Ha

[Meadbh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haha The money advice here is sometimes good, sometimes not. But the personal advice is often less than wise. Young men, bookmark this thread so you can review it when you are considering marriage. Ha

Young women should bookmark it too. Marriage is a trap.

[ER1970]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haha If retiring means a mandatory move to a lower cost area, he was not exactly ready to retire . Ha

No not in our case. His friend yes cause he's got 2 young kids to support, but we don't have to move. Both properties we have now are in highly desirable areas with reasonable COL, and we love both locations. We will get rid of one since it's too much work and waste of $$ maintaining both and we will be traveling a lot. But no plans to move.

[REWahoo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haha The money advice here is sometimes good, sometimes not. But the personal advice is often less than wise.

I was under the impression personal advice was "wisdom neutral".

[ER1970]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haha The money advice here is sometimes good, sometimes not. But the personal advice is often less than wise. Young men, bookmark this thread so you can review it when you are considering marriage. Ha

Please also bookmark this: happy wife, happy life.

[jollystomper]

It is tough to give advice with only 1/2 the story. I'm not saying what is posted may not be true, but sometimes perceptions that one has of one's spouse are not accurate. This is especially true if there is a communication breakdown in the relationship. I'm not saying there is... but when folks have such a contrasting view over such an important matter, one cannot help but wonder.

Based on what has been posted, my assessment is that the OP's DH has a value system center on money and prestige/power, along with the attention/adoration that comes with it. The expensive toys, ability to hang out with others in the same socioeconomic bracket and "talk shop", Maybe even the ability to lord it over others not as fortunate or well off, might all come into play. In addition, if he has no friends, or friends who have the same mindset, as much as he complains about the misery and health, either he on his own, or under the influence of these friends, is not changing his value system. The "misery" in his view might be a badge of honor.

It is not a surprising thing. At our college reunions DW and I talk to classmates with net worths in tens and hundreds of millions of dollars but complaining about stress, and we mention thinking about retirement. Many of them are surprised. They can't grasp why someone making a good salary would ever retire, because their value system is also about the prestige and the money.

In my view, nothing with change until his value system changes. And sadly, it may take a "shock" to his system - some severe health or other crisis to him or a close friend/family member to change it. One of my mentors at work, 5 years old than me and very well off financially for years, never considered retiring at all until he was diagnosed with terminal cancer.

Maybe that "shock" would be the OP retiring herself, and building a separate life... and him seeing the OP actually enjoying that life, since now he way wonder "she wants me to retire, but she says she hates her job and is still working". I don't know.

I don't wish "shocks" on anyone, but this might be the only type of thing that gets his attention. I don't know.

[JustCurious]

I have been a member of this board for years, and I value and appreciate all of the great insights and comments that I read on here on almost a daily basis. However, I think some people on here tend to get a bit smug about their view of life as superior to others. The fact of the matter is different people have different views about what they want out of life, and there is no right and wrong way to live. If someone wants to keep working, for whatever reason, whether it be money, prestige, power, whatever, who are we to judge them? If that is their choice, it is not our place to judge them for making a "wrong" choice. Isn't this a free country? How is judging someone for continuing to work any different from them judging you for not working?

I think it takes a lot of experience and wisdom to step back and realize that there are no right and wrong views on this subject, only different views.

[BTravlin]

You could try my DW's approach. She said I'm retiring and moving to Mexico and I'd like for you to come with me but I'm going regardless.

[dd564]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BTravlin You could try my DW's approach. She said I'm retiring and moving to Mexico and I'd like for you to come with me but I'm going regardless.

I think this is pretty good.

Say, I'm going to go. I'd love you to come with, but I can't control what you want to do. If what we have now isn't enough, I fear you will never have enough.

[JustCurious]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BTravlin You could try my DW's approach. She said I'm retiring and moving to Mexico and I'd like for you to come with me but I'm going regardless.

Did you go with her?

[ER1970]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BTravlin You could try my DW's approach. She said I'm retiring and moving to Mexico and I'd like for you to come with me but I'm going regardless.

THANK YOU (and your DW for her guts), and many others on this board suggesting similar solution! I totally agree and can actually see myself taking this approach - let myself retire first, then let DH adjust himself to it.

[BTravlin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustCurious Did you go with her?

Yes I did. It was about three years earlier than my original plan but all is working out quite well so I'm glad she pushed me or, should I say, pulled me as that is probably a more accurate description.