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Old 03-25-2013, 04:06 PM   #41
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If he has short term memory loss, just thank him for finally agreeing with your decision to retire (and then give him a BIG KISS!) That is your story and stick to it.
LOVE IT!
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Old 03-25-2013, 04:08 PM   #42
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....He just can't understand anymore. His brain injury made him a much nicer person but it also made him incapable of understanding financial matters. He never was very good with money and he is impossible now.

I think I just made my decision. Now, I HAVE to make him understand and I need to stop feeling guilty about it.
You sound like a very strong person, and you have been carrying a VERY heavy load for a long time. I understand your desire to convince your husband that retiring is the right decision before taking the step, however, I just don't think that is going to be possible, given the brain changes you have described. It doesn't sound like he is capable of being rational about this.

For the sake of your health, you need to make a change. It IS your turn. You do not always have to put his demands first. I don't mean to be harsh, but where he would be if you suddenly weren't there tomorrow? From the sound of what the job is doing to your health, that sounds like an actual possibility.

For both your sakes, give yourself permission to retire. He will adjust.

Good luck to you and let us know how you are doing.
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Old 03-25-2013, 04:49 PM   #43
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He has been retired for 20 years and has a deeply ingrained routine. Your retirement will change that. Figure out how to present the change as a positive for both of you or you will both be miserable. Not a good way to spend your golden years.
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Old 03-25-2013, 05:29 PM   #44
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it sounds to me like the problem is your current job. change it. or change your husband
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Old 03-25-2013, 06:03 PM   #45
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....Facts are, I can live on half what my husband can so if something happens to him I will be fine. He likes to spend money eating out almost daily and he likes to drive even if he doesn't have anywhere to go. I like to cook and stay home. At his age, change is going to be hard and he is afraid for me to retire. He retired at 55. Currently, we are spending $1000 a month just eating out and buying gas. That is insane.

I plan to work at something after this summer. Businesses in my area love to hire retirees. I job searched for a month and had three job offers but declined them so I know I can find something. I would also be working much closer to home so less cost for gas......
Does he go out for meals because he doesn't like to cook? Or for camaraderie? I recall my dad went out for breakfast almost every day, more for the camaraderie of the crowd at the breakfast place even though he liked to cook.

Either way, perhaps you can pitch that if you retired that you would be around more and could enjoy meals together so he wouldn't have to go out for meals so much. You just need to put your foot down and tell him that the stress of your job is unacceptable so you're going to retire in a way that makes it clear that he doesn't have a vote or veto on your decision. I like the idea of taking the summer off and take another less stressful job nearer to where you live.
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:26 PM   #46
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You need to make a decision that's best for you. If that means retirement, then do it. Tell your husband he needs to support your decision to live within your means post retirement, or get out of your way. If that means showing him the door, so be it.
Worse case scenario, if you dump him, can you still retire? My gut is that you can but not him. BTW - go see your bank manager now and see if you can ensure that joint consent is required for any loans from here on in. How can you trust a person who would borrow money in your name without your permission ?
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:33 PM   #47
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I currently work for P&G and have been with Duracell for 36 years. Gillette and Kraft both owned Duracell before P&G.

I'm 58, will be 59 this year, and I can't take it anymore. More work, fewer people, and disciplinary action if we can't do it all. I'm better off than most because I do have some management education but what they are demanding is impossible.

I have enough in my 401K and profit sharing to carry me through to 62 for sure and possibly 65 if I'm frugal. I hate to use it but the current conditions at work are forcing my hand. I'm already on medication for extreme stress.

I can draw from it if I keep it in JP Morgan and roll it into their Retirement Plus without the penalty. I can draw a salary from it and plan to draw more the first year while I look for another job. I can work for $10 an hour or less and still make it fine even after I lower my 401K distribution after a year or less, maybe even stop it. My retiree medical from Gillette and P&G is pretty good. I'm embarrassed to say how much I have in my 401K but my calculations say I can make it seven years drawing a decent income. That will take me to 65 or so.

We own a 43 acre farm in a rural area of S. TN. It was worth about $400,000 or more but about half that now. Good thing is, it's paid for. We don't have any car payments. Property taxes are low. I bought my husband a new tractor and that is our only debt and it's down to $3400 left on the balance. My lump sum pension from Kraft will pay it off.

With me commuting 40 miles a day to work and back, my gas bill, including what my husband spends, is $400 a month but usually a little more. We both drive pickup trucks. With me not driving to work it should drop in half. Cost of living here is very low. My husband is 75 and retired. I make $50,000 or more a year and then we have his SS. We can live on half or less of what I make.

We are not wealthy like most people here but we don't do without anything we need. We don't travel. We can't since we are on a farm and have animals to take care of but we don't like to travel anyway. I can grow some of our own food.

Facts are, I can live on half what my husband can so if something happens to him I will be fine. He likes to spend money eating out almost daily and he likes to drive even if he doesn't have anywhere to go. I like to cook and stay home. At his age, change is going to be hard and he is afraid for me to retire. He retired at 55. Currently, we are spending $1000 a month just eating out and buying gas. That is insane.

I plan to work at something after this summer. Businesses in my area love to hire retirees. I job searched for a month and had three job offers but declined them so I know I can find something. I would also be working much closer to home so less cost for gas.

We need to have a balance of spending for me to do this but I think I can if I can get my husband on board. That is my problem. It's not something anybody but me can fix but I just needed to vent and get any input from the group.
I'm going to go back to your first post. Without mentioning your budget, monthly financial needs and your monthly income, it is hard for any of us to really say, "yes, you can/should retire". I would be very hesitant to retire if I thought I could only make it to 62 (3 to 4 years) and "maybe" to 65 (if frugal). What happens after 65 and you have depleted that 401k? Will both of you have just both of your SSN incomes and no emergency bucket?
Then there is your stress level. Can you request a part time position at work or say 3 days a week full time days to help reduce your stress levels? See how that goes and if that does not go well go to plan C which is to fully retire picking up the $10/hr part time work?
Regarding your husband eating out. Do you think this is his social outlet? If so, he may need that more than you know, although some concessions may be called for on his part.

It isn't a matter of "whose" time it is. Rather seems to me it is more about can you reasonably financially make it with a safety net in place and will both of you be reasonably happy with the changes. You made the decision to take it all on 20 years ago right? So it also seems to me you are going to have to be the one to make sure you make it financially and with some degree of contentment. This doesn't mean he may not have to compromise. Just make sure you aren't taking the one thing he finds some happiness with from him.

I'm not trying to minimize the affects of the stress on you either. Rather, I'm saying "take a deep breath", take a good hard "realistic" look at your numbers and ask yourself if you think you can make it. Then plug in the "what ifs" and ask yourself again.

I'm curious. When he had his accident, was he able to get SSN disability payments at age 55 until he could take his full SSN? Or do the disability payments continue?
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:44 PM   #48
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Worse case scenario, if you dump him, can you still retire? My gut is that you can but not him.
You must not be very acquainted with divorce. There is no way that a relatively able bodied spouse is allowed to walk away from a brain injured older person. The spousal support and settlement would make it hard going for OP.


Anyway, she has not said anything at all about wanting divorce. That idea comes from other members.

Likely all she has to do is assert her boundaries and needs, and that will be that.

Ha
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:57 PM   #49
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[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]You must not be very acquainted with divorce.
You are correct. Although I might seriously consider it, if I can find a rich young floozy to take care of me.
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Old 03-25-2013, 09:56 PM   #50
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Retire now. Not worth the stress.
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Old 03-25-2013, 11:05 PM   #51
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I agree it sounds like your job is very detrimental to you and - at a minimum - you should try to switch jobs.

As for whether you can afford to retire, I'm not sure. What I think I've gleaned:

You make about $50,000 a year and your husband collects SS in an amount that you haven't specified.

You have a pension from Gillette your medical insurance which is currently $174 and up depending on health and yours is good. Your DH can be covered as supplemental to Medicare for $59.

You will receive a "lump sum pension" from Kraft (I guess that means a one time payment in lieu of a pension?)

You have a 401k that I gather is not a huge amount but could replace your salary from now until somewhere between 62 and 65. You don't say how much it is, but comment that you could live on less than half of what you make which is $50,000 so half would be $25,000. I don't know how much is covered by his SS. I am not sure if your plan is to fully deplete your 401k to cover that $25,000 over the next 7 years.

Your DH had a 401k but it was used to pay off the loan on your 43 acre farm. It is paid for and you think it is currently worth about $200,000 (which seem kinds of low if you have a house on it).

You own two trucks that have no loan and your only debt is $3400 on a tractor which the lump sum from Kraft will pay off.

You mention your daughter and a grandchild also living on your property. It wasn't clear if they live in your house or live separately.

So - questions that I wonder about (not saying you need to answer them publicly):

1. Does your farm bring in any income? If so, how much?

2. If the farm doesn't bring in any income, is there a reason to own 43 acres? Could you sell part of it to bring in some cash?

3. Is your Gillette pension only enough to cover insurance or will you have anything left over?

4. Will the Kraft lump sum be fully depleted by paying off the tractor loan?

5. Other than your 401(k), do you and your husband have any savings or money at all? Do you have any sort of emergency fund? How would you pay for any large unexpected expenditure (new roof, for example or any other large expense you can think of)

If you don't have other savings or an emergency fund then I would be hesitant to fully deplete your 401(k) over the next few years.

6. It sounds like you plan to deplete the 401(k) over the next few years and then to rely entirely on SS for you and your husband with no other savings or assets other than the paid for farm? In addition, you may do some part time or other work as available. Is this correct?

For SS how much will you be eligible for on your own record? It is highly likely that you will be a widow at some point. Basically you will receive the higher of either your own SS or your DH's SS. Your DH's SS was reduced by him taking it at 62. How does your SS compare to your DH's. Can you live on the SS of only the higher one of you two?
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Old 03-25-2013, 11:07 PM   #52
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You must not be very acquainted with divorce. There is no way that a relatively able bodied spouse is allowed to walk away from a brain injured older person. The spousal support and settlement would make it hard going for OP.

Anyway, she has not said anything at all about wanting divorce. That idea comes from other members.

Likely all she has to do is assert her boundaries and needs, and that will be that.

Ha
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Old 03-26-2013, 06:52 AM   #53
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I am in excellent health except for the issue I have with stress from working 10 1/2 hour rotating shifts and the pressure of trying to make the people that work under me keep up with the demands that are required of them. If they don't succeed it trickles down to me since I am responsible. I don't want to be responsible for somebody under my supervision losing their job...

Why should you feel responsible for somebody losing their job if they are not keeping up with their job requirements and making you look bad and giving you stress? You need to consider getting rid of that part of the stress as soon as possible. Is there someone you can talk to to help with this mindset?

I have been trying to slow down his habit of eating out without him going cold turkey. I told him no more than once a day and I would prefer less than that. I have known him to eat all three meals out when I am working nights or overtime.

It sounds like it's time to start an allowance for his meals out and gas to get there so he can be responsible for his own personal budget. Of course he will have to be shown how to keep a running total of his expenses. Once the money runs out he will have to wait until next month.
Just 2 more quick thoughts - 1. If you are considering a more fuel efficient car be careful not to put yourself in more financial mess with having payments on a new car. 2. So what would happen (what could he do) if you were suddenly down sized ? (After you had already secured another more enjoyable job of course. If that is what you want.)

Cheers!
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Old 03-26-2013, 07:19 AM   #54
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Wow! You have a lot going on but, overall, you and your husband are very lucky.

You haven't mentioned kids, extendend family or close friends very much. Both you and your husband should have combined interests and seperate interests. You appear to have the money for hobbies and get togethers with others.

I wouldn't be thinking of divorce. There is almost a generation between your ages and when anyone is 75 you'll see signs of aging, both mental and physical. I see it in myself as well as my in laws, who just entered their 80's.

I would work in a comfortable job. You're lucky, you've already had job offers. This will give you time alone as well as time with your husband.

Overall, you have a long term marriage, financial security, you're smart, and most important, you have your health. I know many that would trade their lives for yours. If you ever spent a little time at a soup kitchen or mental health center you would really appreciate how good you have it. I have challenges but, overall, I'm very lucky as well. The very best of luck to you.
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Old 03-26-2013, 07:33 AM   #55
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Since you have already had a documented work-related severe stress incident at work, I would have a serious talk with your doctor about what your options are for filing for disability. If it is possible to reduce your hours further, that might be worth looking into as a bridge strategy -- it will keep some money coming in while you figure out if being at home more will help you to help your DH to adjust his behavior/save money. And if your employer fires you, you may have a good case for age/health-related discrimination.

My FIL has similar memory issues, though more serious (he's basically like a big 4 year old), and it is really a challenge so I feel for you on that front. Glad his personality changed for the better, though.
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Old 03-26-2013, 09:52 AM   #56
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Since you have a farm, you might want to check out permies.com (permaculture forum) for lots of money saving / making ideas for people trying to live off their land and not have regular jobs.

As katsmeow mentioned, if your farm is not a money making venture, then you might have a simpler life by selling it and moving to a smaller, less expensive dwelling with less upkeep. Any leftover cash from the farm sale could be used to invest and generate retirement income.

We know people in retirement with lots of land and animals to support and people who live in small spaces and have lots more time for clubs, hobbies and travel. For us, we see the small space households as having the most free time with the least overhead expenses.

If you are spending $1K a month on gas and restaurants, perhaps there are other areas of your budget you could cut back on as well in order to retire or take on a less stressful job. Having a detailed budget for now and in retirement and then running your numbers through a few different retirement calculators is key to developing your long term plan.
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Old 03-27-2013, 05:43 PM   #57
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Sorry to be late to this thread. To the OP : it may make sense for you to contact a marriage counsellor first. I am sorry you have to go through this. Believe in yourself.
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