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Old 07-25-2009, 03:56 PM   #21
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Mine has closer to 200k
I thought that a qualifying "clunker" had to have under 150,000 miles?
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Old 07-25-2009, 04:01 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by REWahoo View Post
Lufkin in August. I can almost smell the paper mill from here...
Better than Janesville in January IMO. Congrats Marty on getting out of Wisconsin. I envy you
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Old 07-25-2009, 04:03 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by aaronc879 View Post
I thought that a qualifying "clunker" had to have under 150,000 miles?
Nope, no mileage requirement:

Quote:
  • Your vehicle must be less than 25 years old on the trade-in date
  • Only purchase or lease of new vehicles qualify
  • Generally, trade-in vehicles must get 18 or less MPG (some very large pick-up trucks and cargo vans have different requirements)
  • Trade-in vehicles must be registered and insured continuously for the full year preceding the trade-in
  • You don't need a voucher, dealers will apply a credit at purchase
  • Program runs through Nov 1, 2009 or when the funds are exhausted, whichever comes first.
  • The program requires the scrapping of your eligible trade-in vehicle, and that the dealer disclose to you an estimate of the scrap value of your trade-in. The scrap value, however minimal, will be in addition to the rebate, and not in place of the rebate.
CARS.gov - Car Allowance Rebate System
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Old 07-25-2009, 05:16 PM   #24
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...offer a benefit to a special/random group of people (those who bought gas hogs years ago and are now looking to buy new cars), while others (who might have been more conservation minded and bought high mpg vehicles) get nothing.
Seems to be a trend these days.

Another example: Since it's so dry here I looked up the stages of water rationing in our city. In the highest level of rationing, in the summer months you are given a "baseline" of 1/2 of your average monthly usage in the December to March period. So if you average 10,000 gallons a month in December through March, you'd get 5,000 gallons a month during "stage 5" rationing and pay HUGE surcharges on additional usage (up to an extra $100 per 1,000 gallons overused).

Which means that folks who have been conserving water really take it in the shorts. Those who have really conserved (like us) barely use 2,000 gallons a month on average in winter, and there is NO realistic way we can use only 1,000 gallons a month in the summer even if we let every patch of greenery die.

Note that if we wasted water in the winter time, we'd get a lot more than 1,000 gallons a month. If we just allowed a few thousand more gallons to get wasted down the drain, we'd have nothing to worry about. But because we conserve, if this stage of rationing hits, we're screwed.

Sorry for the hijack, but it is another example of policy which penalizes those who were conservation-minded from the get-go.
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Old 07-25-2009, 06:20 PM   #25
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My 1997 infiniti j30 is on the list. I've never gotten less than 19 miles per gallon, usually on highway I get closer to 23-24 miles per gallon. Now, I may have to think about trading it in. I only paid 7k for it, and have put about 65k of the 108k total miles on it. We've been thinking of getting a little pick-up truck...

Jim
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Old 07-25-2009, 10:05 PM   #26
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Yet another BONEHEADED program brought to you by your government. Why crush the clunkers?? SHEESH, this is only going to drive up secondary markets for used car parts, plus make it more difficult for poor people to find any clunker to drive. :gah: Really, really lame.
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Old 07-25-2009, 10:29 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by SarahW View Post
Yet another BONEHEADED program brought to you by your government. Why crush the clunkers?? SHEESH, this is only going to drive up secondary markets for used car parts, plus make it more difficult for poor people to find any clunker to drive. :gah: Really, really lame.
Well, here is part of the response I got from (the office of) the (lame duck) Senator who replaced Obama:

Quote:
I supported this legislation because it will help increase business for dealers hurting across Illinois and across the country. The program will benefit our automobile industry, our economy and clean energy initiatives.

Sincerely,

Roland W. Burris
United States Senator
It was actually a bit more detailed and specific than I expected, but the reason is still bogus.

Dick Durbin's office sent a long response that had nothing to do with my comments - it was some canned thing about Cap&Trade (which was part of the same bill I think).

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Old 07-26-2009, 12:03 AM   #28
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I'd really be proud of that "buy American" spirit. Here, I thought it was the American government that was giving the cash back. Maybe the Japanese government also got involved and we didn't know it.

First of all, both my family's "foreign" cars were built in the US, by American auto workers, supporting their families. My purchases helped pay their wages, provide health insurance, retirements, etc. Second, I've owned many big 3 vehicles in my life, and don't feel any need to justify my decision to buy whatever I want with my money. I work for the US Government, and have spent almost 33 years in the US military. Third, in case you don't know it, pretty much any car you buy in this country, whether badged as a "US" company or not, almost assuredly has a great percentage of foreign made components in it. I'm quite proud of my support of business in this country, and couldn't give rat's ass what you think. For the record, my "buy American" vehicle that I traded in is just 11 years old, and the engine & transmission are both in need of major, expensive repair. The Honda we traded in for the '07 Camry was more than 16 years old with close to 250.000 miles and never needed to be touched except for routine maintenance.
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Old 07-26-2009, 12:10 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by REWahoo View Post
Lufkin in August. I can almost smell the paper mill from here...

lol...smell? Nobody told me about that! Surely it can't be anything like Savannah, GA? I don't know how it is there now, but the last time I was there is was REALLY bad! Of course, I grew up in the southeast around paper mills, so I'm sort of used to it. One thing's for sure though, I bet I won't be needing a snow blower hahaha! I've already sold mine, got rid of the shovels, bags of salt, ice cleats etc. I didn't really have a serious winter coat when I got here, but now I've got enough stuff for the rest of my life & beyond. I had a great time up here, but it's time to GO!
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Old 07-26-2009, 12:23 AM   #30
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I'd really be proud of that "buy American" spirit. Here, I thought it was the American government that was giving the cash back. Maybe the Japanese government also got involved and we didn't know it.
Didn't someone quote a study here a while back showing that the Japanese manufacturer's American plants used more American parts in their "foreign" cars than American manufacturers did in their "domestic" cars?

Read Lowenstein's latest book and see if you feel that GM's management and unions have been responsible stewards of the "Buy American" tradition. I'm pro-union but these guys crossed the line more times than a platoon of conga dancers.

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Yet another BONEHEADED program brought to you by your government. Why crush the clunkers?? SHEESH, this is only going to drive up secondary markets for used car parts, plus make it more difficult for poor people to find any clunker to drive. :gah: Really, really lame.
I'm sure that the spare parts will still find a way to "fall" off the cars into someone's eBay website.

Besides the program applies to low-MPG clunkers. The fuel-efficient clunkers will still be there for everyone. In fact if you're looking for a cheap '97 Nissan Altima with 102K miles, 30+ MPG, and some minor guardrail body damage then it's yours for the cost of the shipping!
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Old 07-26-2009, 09:35 AM   #31
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I'm sure that the spare parts will still find a way to "fall" off the cars into someone's eBay website.

Besides the program applies to low-MPG clunkers. The fuel-efficient clunkers will still be there for everyone. In fact if you're looking for a cheap '97 Nissan Altima with 102K miles, 30+ MPG, and some minor guardrail body damage then it's yours for the cost of the shipping!
As I understand it, the drivetrain and transmission must be totally destroyed. I don't know who thinks this is a good idea. Most people driving clunkers can't afford a new car anyhow, so who will this truly benefit?

As for the availability of clunkers for poor people...seldom do they have any choice in make, model, color, etc. It's typically a matter of what they can find that will roll for $700 (or whatever paltry sum they have.)
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Old 07-26-2009, 10:06 AM   #32
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I'm sure that the spare parts will still find a way to "fall" off the cars into someone's eBay website.
They only need to make the drivetrain unusable, other spare parts can still be sold. Whether that makes economic sense or not, I don't know - they might just crunch the whole thing.


Quote:
Besides the program applies to low-MPG clunkers. The fuel-efficient clunkers will still be there for everyone.
It still has the effect of reducing supply of old cars, so *all* old cars will rise in price. This really is a bad bill for poor people - they are not in a position to buy a new car, so no benefit, all negatives for them.

sorry, posted after Sarah W said the same thing (where is that "a new post has been added" feature we used to have)
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Old 07-26-2009, 10:26 AM   #33
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Heh, my 1999 3/4 ton 7.4 litre (AKA 454) GMC Suburban is NOT on the clunker list. Yet the 5.7 litre model Sub is

Even if it was, I would not trade it, It has at least another 200 thousand miles left in it.

Curiously the early 90's Jaguars are on the list, yet my 88 is not. The early 90's 6 cyl Jags can squeeze out 30 to 32 mpg on the highway. The best ever I could get is 28 to 29 mpg.

Some list, the rationale sure evades me.
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Old 07-26-2009, 10:39 AM   #34
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I was curious about allowing the clunker to be sold for parts. Here is what I found:

Quote:
During the six-month period prior to the required crushing or shredding of the
trade-in vehicle, the disposal facility may sell any parts of the vehicle other than the
engine block or drive train (unless the drive train is dismantled and sold in parts).
http://www.cars.gov/files/TheRule.pdf

Interesting also that dealers will be required to give the engines a lethal injection of sodium silicate...

Quote:
The agency has determined that a quick, inexpensive, and environmentally safe process exists to disable the engine of the trade-in vehicle while in the dealerís possession. Removing the engine oil from the crankcase, replacing it with a 40 percent solution of sodium silicate (a substance used in similar concentrations in many common vehicle applications, including patching mufflers and radiators), and running the engine for a short period of time at low speeds renders the engine inoperable.
Sodium Silicate Is The Cash for Clunkers Executioner
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Old 07-27-2009, 10:05 AM   #35
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Heh, my 1999 3/4 ton 7.4 litre (AKA 454) GMC Suburban is NOT on the clunker list. Yet the 5.7 litre model Sub is...

You 3/4T burb would have to apply. What does that thing do for mileage with BBC in it? 10-12MPG?
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Old 07-27-2009, 12:50 PM   #36
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As I understand it, the drivetrain and transmission must be totally destroyed. I don't know who thinks this is a good idea. Most people driving clunkers can't afford a new car anyhow, so who will this truly benefit?

As for the availability of clunkers for poor people...seldom do they have any choice in make, model, color, etc. It's typically a matter of what they can find that will roll for $700 (or whatever paltry sum they have.)

From what the dealers are telling me... there are a lot of people coming in 'looking'.... the Hyundai dealer said he sold 5 on Saturday...

Seems a lot of LBYM people who have clunkers also have the money to buy new....


Can anybody find a website that shows how many have been bought under the program at any time? I would like to know if the money is going out fast or not...
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Old 07-27-2009, 02:36 PM   #37
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You 3/4T burb would have to apply. What does that thing do for mileage with BBC in it? 10-12MPG?
Summer time, running between Baltimore MD and SW PA house 15 to 16.5. Towing Argosy trailer 12 to 13. I made a few aerodynamic mods, plus it has custom programmed computer. Could do better if I got rid of roof railings/crossbars/kayak cradles, but need them to haul my 18' kayak.

Winter time mileage drops about 2 mpg.

Darn good for a 7000+ lb vehicle.
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Old 07-28-2009, 01:53 PM   #38
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Can anybody find a website that shows how many have been bought under the program at any time? I would like to know if the money is going out fast or not...
I don't know of a tracking website, but my wife and I went car shopping on Saturday and it was definitely busy. The dealer said that they'd sold 12 vehicles that day (mostly Cash for Clunkers).

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Seems a lot of LBYM people who have clunkers also have the money to buy new....
We decided to take advantage of the program. All together (govt program, cash allowances from Chrysler, haggling the dealer below invoice, etc), we bought the car for almost $12,000 less than the sticker price (MSRP). We probably got too much car, but it's paid for and sure looks nice in the driveway .
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Old 07-28-2009, 03:07 PM   #39
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Those of you interested in taking advantage of this program might want to re-check the eligibility of your clunker:

Cash-for-clunkers auto eligibility list changed - USATODAY.com

Quote:
As it prepared for its "cash-for-clunkers" program, the government rejiggered gas mileage figures on about 100 older vehicles last week in a way that changed whether they would be eligible for up to $4,500 in sales inducements.
CARS.gov - Car Allowance Rebate System
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