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Old 03-04-2014, 09:20 PM   #21
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Why do you have to fund 100% of the project(s)

If it is so good, have the whole 'family' chip in....


Where I used to work, I bought 2% of the company.... it does not make enough to retire (last year was really bad, which is why I was let go).... but I still think that it will pay off big time in the years to come...

I would bet that there are some in your group that would like to have a piece of the action.... heck, you might get some to work for 'free'....



I will tell you that your risk level is much higher than mine.... I would not want to put up $100K for a chance to make $200K in a few year or lose it all... with those odds, just put it all on black and get it over with
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Old 03-04-2014, 11:25 PM   #22
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You know your current expenses and have good confidence in them for the last two years. Those expenses are on the high side and you expect them to stay at that level for 15 years, then possibly go down. You portfolio would require a 1.4% withdrawal rate to support your expenses.

I see absolutely no need to risk your capital and your time in trying to turn the crank one more time. Certainly no reason to spend 5 years doing so. If you think there's any value is selling whatever knowledge or potential projects you are courting, then by all means sell what you can, but you already have more than all the capital you will need to live the rest of your life at the lifestyle you currently enjoy - plus a whole lot more free time. With your ultra low withdrawal rate, your fortunes will continue to improve even without working.

You should do whatever you want to do. You have no need to do something to make money. You already have plenty. If this business doesn't thrill you so much you'd do it for free, then time to move on.
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Old 03-04-2014, 11:51 PM   #23
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I might have misunderstood, but are you exposing your own capital/net worth to a potential loss working the next projects? If so, that seems like exposing yourself to financial risk for potential reward that you really don't need. Sure it may be a ton more $ but you seem to have already won the game of Financial Independence.

Its is hard to know if a lifestyle change will lead to more or less happiness. You are the same age as me and have the same qty and nearly same age of kids. That's pretty wild. How about we split the wealth, and I promise to be your best friend for life? Let's go play golf.
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Old 03-05-2014, 12:16 AM   #24
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Ha! I'm a turbo slacker at heart. Thanks options, mid pack, and getting older for the perspective.

Yes, continuing to run the business in its current arrangement requires putting capital at risk if new projects are pursued. Since it is a business I know well and have some degree of control over, I actually feel more confident than when investing in public equities. The problem is there is a severe lack of diversification. The lack of diversification was helpful but now is dumb.

Writing all this down, combined with the outside perspective shows me I need to reevaluate and figure out a way to segue into a new life arrangement. Old habits need to be broken.
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Old 03-05-2014, 12:45 AM   #25
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If you want to continue with the business for the time being, but protect your capital, have you considered incorporating and courting funding? Doesn't solve the burnout problem but should solve the assets-at-risk issue.
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Old 03-05-2014, 07:49 AM   #26
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If you want to continue with the business for the time being, but protect your capital, have you considered incorporating and courting funding? Doesn't solve the burnout problem but should solve the assets-at-risk issue.


Yes, this is what I was thinking when I said to let the employees help fund the next project... your suggestion goes even further.... however, getting funding from outside people without some guarantee from the 'owner' might be hard... we do not know enough about what he does to have an informed opinion....
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Old 03-05-2014, 08:28 AM   #27
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Yes outside funding is a big part of the business and historically we partner with large/institutional investors once a concept is somewhat proven out. These types will gladly value a project at a premium once most of the kinks are worked out; the risk capital is for the kinks stage. The trick is, even if you're only risking a dollar (meaning you spread the "kinks" risk amongst employees or others) you want and need to fully understand the risk - which takes time. Time is really what I'm after and maybe there is a way to restructure to allow for more free time as an intro to ER.
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Old 03-05-2014, 11:44 AM   #28
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With 72 x, you are set financially beyond any reasonable doubt. If I were in your shoes, I would not put part of that 72x at risk and lock myself in for 5-7 more years for a shot to push 72x to 73x. You are obviously an intelligent guy with useful (if non-traditional) skills so I am sure you will find a good use for them. It may be 180 degrees from what you might think/expect now, but there will be something. And it may be absolutely nothing for a while, too, and that's also fine. As I mentioned before, it's rare to truly see a new beginning until you've had a proper ending.

What does your significant other think or say in all of this?
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Old 03-05-2014, 12:05 PM   #29
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It sounds like the OP might benefit from speaking to a good life coach, who could help him to explore all the options.

(Full disclosure: I am starting a small part-time business as a life coach, specializing in existential dilemmas.)
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Old 03-05-2014, 02:47 PM   #30
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Thanks some guy and big nick. DW is open to and cautiously excited for change. Her caveat being as long as I'm not laying on the couch eating Cheetos,
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Old 03-05-2014, 03:35 PM   #31
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as long as I'm not laying on the couch eating Cheetos,
So switch to healthier snacks and you're golden!
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Old 03-05-2014, 04:56 PM   #32
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You have already won the game. Time to do what you want without having to put your money at risk to make more. The only good reason I can see to not retire today is loyalty to your employees. Perhaps you could tell them you are leaving in 3 months and between now and then they have to figure out a way to make the business run without you.
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Old 03-07-2014, 09:53 PM   #33
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Just curious - not being a businessman - could your employees buy you out? They keep their jobs, but your money's not at stake. Excuse any potential ignorance in my question lol
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Old 03-10-2014, 05:26 PM   #34
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I am not sure how to relay this, but I feel I was in a similar position. I was at a point where I felt I had 120 families dependent on me. As founder and visionary of a company that was successful, everything was great until a rough patch occurred. The level of stress and anxiety at that point nearly destroyed me. After successfully traversing the abyss, I was able to agree to a sale of the company and the beginning of the next phase of my life. This resulted in most of the employees losing their jobs within 1 year, but they all ended up in a good position. The weight lifted off my shoulders was unbelievable. I realized that my belief that I was responsible for all their families was very toxic and destructive to my health. At some point you must look to your own happiness and family when determining what to do.
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Old 03-10-2014, 09:19 PM   #35
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Hi,

If I am reading right: Congratulations, at 72x high expenses you have certainly "won the game" and to continue for another 5 - 10 years with a 10 employee burn rate you have gotta really love what you are doing. It's not the money right

Kinds sounds like you don't really love it, but think you should continue to really run up the score/support employees/72x is not sufficient/ (I really did not understand your thinking here).

IMHO you have no need or duty to keep working, so then the problem is how to:
Extract value, for all, from current business (while lowering your risk and time);

Others have made lots of good suggestions including a sabbatical where I think you will be in the best position to work out a solution to your current situation.

If your answer results in retirement, I am guessing that after a decent period of enjoying options, your innate entrepreneur will probably will want to build something new. Perhaps then you can identify something that has a lower burn rate (cost of failure) but still be satisfying

BTW: I have previously done this on a much, much smaller scale and am about to jump ship again - my driver is that time is more scarce than $ :-)

Good luck!
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Old 03-10-2014, 10:20 PM   #36
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Thanks -

Your collective comments and this posting exercise has forced me to fast forward my thinking.

The unique circumstances of the business don't really make it an employee buyout candidate, but I have decided to plot an immediate course toward semi-retirement starting with the baby steps of a 30 day sabbatical this summer.

DW is also ready for a change and, possibly contrary to my earlier posts, it seems as if the business can be re-tooled to do a lower volume of projects which will free up 50-75% of my current work time but keep the enterprise a going concern. This would reduce to an easily manageable level any new risk capital.

I agree that time is more scarce than money, and with a new outlook of "better is more" rather than "more is better", semi-retirement may be the right answer for now. At least I'll have a month to test it out-
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Old 03-10-2014, 11:08 PM   #37
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Awesome choice for you and your family!
Best wishes and please post back how the sabbatical works out.
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