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Old 01-29-2008, 01:19 PM   #101
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MMND... what is it you did that turned people off? I am surpised that you can not see it plain as day..

You came in looking like a spammer and a 'know it all' and continued it for awhile... now, it might not have been your intention, but first impressions are hard to change.

Good luck here... but except for a bit harsher than normal, these kind of discussions are happening all the time... let's see what you contribute to any of the other threads and see if the first impression is correct or just plain wrong...
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Old 01-29-2008, 01:56 PM   #102
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Hmm. Could it be that some of the more established forum members feel a little threatened by a smart woman?
Well, this forum is filled with of smart, articulate, and socially skilled women, obviously including yourself.

I would say men who hang around here must be attracted to this, or perhaps some of us would have gone away?

I believe OP brought up this Male Chauvinism red herring to distract attention from the details of her presentation. Clearly she is a skilled business person, and for anyone interested in starting a business there is much to be learned from her site.

But this board is mostly about investing for retirement, and living in retirement at least in part from this investing.

I plan to stay mostly out of this because it is not interesting to me as I do not believe in miracles. Nevertheless it is hard not to notice that her wealth spinning method is a relative strength trend following method available to anyone with $149 for one year, or $229 for two.

Under the Tab- How Do You Select Your Investments? Why Do they perform so well, Millionaire Mommie lays it all out. She says that her method comes from following the recommendations of No Load Fund*X, an investment newsletter.

http://millionairemommynextdoor.blogspot.com/2007/11/how-do-i-select-my-investments-why-are.html

http://www.noloadfundx.com/subscribe.cfm

We have spent a lot of time on this board discussing academically verified approaches to investment, as well as approaches of time tested value investors with public investment records going back many years.

If we ever found anything in support of “upgrading” mutual funds, I missed that thread.

This is enough for me. But if anything else is needed, I have over time learned that if someone sounds like an infomercial it isn’t by accident, because that is not how people naturally communicate.

People have shown up from time to time with commercial sounding messages. Almost always these have been men. They have generally been given a very careful look-over. (Especially if they had anything good to say about annuities. )

So I would say that it is safe to bury the Chauvinism Issue. I would list some of the obviously talented women on this site but there are too many. In fact, I can’t think of any who do not fall into this category.

It is in fact very aggressive to make a blanket accusation of something like this. A short look around the site would have shown the reality of what is here. Just like a writer is well advised to read a few issues of a magazine before she submits an article, it is maybe respectful and smart to get a feel for the tenor of an Internet Board.

Ha
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Old 01-29-2008, 02:25 PM   #103
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Here is a write up of someone selling the same garbage stuff:

FT Press: The No-Frills Investment Strategy > Changing Your Bets While the Race Is Still Underway
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Old 01-29-2008, 03:02 PM   #104
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This is very interesting, and looking backward it appears successful by his data.

An oddity is that there is actually a sporting contest that allows changing one's bets as the contest evolves, much as in his hypothetical horserace. I refer to cock fighting. Though I would never attend these bestial events left to my own devices, I had to under circumstances that would take too long to explain.

Cock fights are like human boxing matches, only more so. The stronger more agressive cock usually relentlessly destroys his opponent. But the cocks wear very sharp steel spurs which like a knockout punch out of nowhere can immediately reverse, and end, even the most lopsided fights.

During the match which is ordinarily quite a bit longer than US horse race, there are a bunch of bookies around the ring, shouting out odds. The bettors signal an acceptance; bets are settled afterward. As far as I could see, there were very few attempts to back out of a bad bet. Maybe the fact that everyone was armed had something to do with that.

Having a numbers orientation to life I tried to figure out if the odds were true, or if there was something to be gained from mid course bets. It all happened very fast, but as best I could see, and from talking to bookies and bettors, the changing odds were more or less fair, less the bookies vig. Same idea with half-time bets in football.

Overall, I would expect that the same problem infests momentum equity strategies. Stocks, and the funds that own them, go up until they don't. And then they can really go down! See spring 2000 for examples.

So essentially the odds are being altered as the funds increase in price. It just isn't obvious to everyone.

But think about this- the underlying principle is exactly opposite to the idea behind rebalancing.

Ha
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Old 01-29-2008, 03:13 PM   #105
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FWIW, there is academic support for momentum investing. But you're right that is hasn't been discussed here much. Precisely why I'm happy to see somebody doing it.
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Old 01-29-2008, 03:20 PM   #106
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FWIW, there is academic support for momentum investing. But you're right that is hasn't been discussed here much. Precisely why I'm happy to see somebody doing it.
Can we get a better discussion going? I'm intrigued. I need to learn a lot more, but it seems that momentum investors are accepting greater risks and so, theoretically, should expect a greater reward. Of course, when it stops working then one finds out that they were accepting greater risks.
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Old 01-29-2008, 03:23 PM   #107
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Can we get a better discussion going? I'm intrigued.
Consider starting a new Momentum Investing thread.
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Old 01-29-2008, 03:24 PM   #108
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Overall, I would expect that the same problem infests momentum equity strategies. Stocks, and the funds that own them, go up until they don't. And then they can really go down! See spring 2000 for examples.
In case you missed it on another thread, here are 3 month charts for the returns from a couple of momentum investment funds.

http://www.early-retirement.org/foru...tml#post607613
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Old 01-29-2008, 03:28 PM   #109
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In case you missed it on another thread, here are 3 month charts for the returns from a couple of momentum investment funds.

http://www.early-retirement.org/foru...tml#post607613
Hmm, maybe a rough spot?

Twaddle, you sound as if you know something about academic research in this area.

Care to post something?

Ha
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Old 01-29-2008, 03:28 PM   #110
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The excess returns from a momentum strategy are usually downplayed because the idea doesn't jibe well with efficient markets and risk-based returns.

Some references here:

Momentum
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Old 01-29-2008, 03:29 PM   #111
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Thank you.

I'm off to buy some spinach. I'll look at this stuff when I return.

Ha
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Old 01-29-2008, 03:31 PM   #112
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I believe OP brought up this Male Chauvinism red herring to distract attention from the details of her presentation. Clearly she is a skilled business person, and for anyone interested in starting a business there is much to be learned from her site.


Skilled perhaps, but she should know this audience is the exception not the norm, and be prepared for being challenged, unlike her blog.........

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But this board is mostly about investing for retirement, and living in retirement at least in part from this investing.
Quote:

I plan to stay mostly out of this because it is not interesting to me as I do not believe in miracles. Nevertheless it is hard not to notice that her wealth spinning method is a relative strength trend following method available to anyone with $149 for one year, or $229 for two.


I think the folks charging make more on the $149 than the person buying it does on the recommendations, but that's just me...........if Folio FN, No-LoadX and others have discovered the "secret" it's news to me.......

Quote:
(Especially if they had anything good to say about annuities. )


Speaking of annuities, I am going to see Moshe Milovskey speak at the end of February. I will take notes and post a review on his take. I have been told he will be available to answer questions after, so maybe I can sneak one or two in............

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It is in fact very aggressive to make a blanket accusation of something like this. A short look around the site would have shown the reality of what is here. Just like a writer is well advised to read a few issues of a magazine before she submits an article, it is maybe respectful and smart to get a feel for the tenor of an Internet Board.
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Ha
Ha, you and I do not always agree, but the above paragraph is spot on...........
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Old 01-29-2008, 04:27 PM   #113
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Martha ,
It may be time to use your whip !
A little BDSM?
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Old 01-29-2008, 04:40 PM   #114
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[/color]

Skilled perhaps, but she should know this audience is the exception not the norm, and be prepared for being challenged, unlike her blog.........
I think everyone here needs to be just as open to her ideas.

Some of the answers to the rent vs. buy questions are more of a comfort level, that in part goes back to a time and mindset that you buy your home early, pay it off while you're working, then you retire on your pension and don't have a mortgage anymore. Not really a need to save otherwise back in those days.

Times have changed obviously. And the housing market has changed along with it, and it's worth it to look at the math, which is what she is doing.

Financially, in some markets I'm sure it does make more sense to rent than buy. I wonder how long that will last, because you wonder why people will own and rent out homes so cheaply compared to their price.

But there definitely is an emotional component to it, most people don't just switch homes like you do equities.

I still say there is something wrong with her headline on the rent vs. buy thing. Though she did use numbers for her area, the headline didn't account for any "it depends" answer, and she didn't even bother asking the questioner where s/he was from and try to do any research on that area. The OP is from north of Denver, where there are towns with building restrictions and zoning laws that push up the price of homes. While there are plenty of people who live in such areas, there are also lots and lots of people who will need to make this decision in a housing market without such artificial constraints.

My complaint about that blog is that the headline (rent over buy) does not match the conclusion (it depends on your situation). I don't put much stock in people who present things so deceptively.

However, the rent vs. buy question is still valid.
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Old 01-29-2008, 05:05 PM   #115
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Speaking of annuities, I am going to see Moshe Milovskey speak at the end of February. I will take notes and post a review on his take. I have been told he will be available to answer questions after, so maybe I can sneak one or two in..
hey, this is great Dude, I'd like to hear about your findings.

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Ha, you and I do not always agree,
I think we agree a lot more than you may realize.

Ha
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Old 01-29-2008, 05:19 PM   #116
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Can I have a do-over here? Please accept my humblest apology and allow me rewrite my "Hi, I am..." introduction:

"Hi, my pen name is MMND. I love to write, but I stink at it. I'm nothing special, so I hope you guys won't mind if I hang around - don't worry, after I beg you for your autographs, I won't get in anyone's way. You are all sooooo brilliant, and well, I'm just a stupid little pee-on. See, I'm just a flunk out in life 'cuz I couldn't afford to finish college.

And, uh, you all are just so stinkin' RICH! Wow! Tell me, what does it FEEL like to have so much money? Gosh, I'm really embarrassed to admit this here, but here goes...my net worth is only a measly 1.6MM. Yeah, I know, chump change. Embarrassing. Don't tell anyone, K? Can you super intelligent, super successful and super rich people pretty please spare me some time to give me a proper financial education so I can grow up to be as rich as you are? (I know I'll never be as smart or successful, so I won't even hope for that.)

Oh my gawd, I am so embarrassed to admit this to all of you, but here it goes. I mean, I did a really stupid thing. I sold my house... and I, uh, am a renter now. (I know, I know, what in the world was I thinking) Everyone told me I was nuts to believe that there was a housing bubble and someday it would have to pop - guess it was just dumb luck that it really did happen. Even poor, dummy people like me get lucky once in awhile. Thank goodness for luck or I'd be nowhere in life.

Since I'm in confession mode, I should add that I am so gullible and so naive that I fell for a get-rich-quick investment scheme. I paid some complete stranger $149 for a newsletter that says it offers some mathematical formula for knowing what mutual funds to buy (but I don't get what all those numbers mean, 'cuz remember, I couldn't afford to finish my college education). Since I paid so much for the stupid newsletter, I did try it. Thank gawd I got lucky again (someone's lookin' out for me, that's for sure), because my investments have been doing better than all of my friends for years, somehow. Dumb luck, I tell ya.

Please, smart people, obviously I need your help. If you don't save me from my stupid choices, I'm gonna end up in the poor house eatin' cat food. I can't do that to my little girl, ya know. So please, help me? Thank you, thank you, thank you, for listening to little 'ol me this long. I'm gonna go back to baking cookies - now that is the one thing I do know how to do!
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Old 01-29-2008, 05:44 PM   #117
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MMND ,
I read your blog and thought parts of it had merit but this last post is like a spoiled child not getting the attention and esteem she wants .True these guys can be rough but once you show them you are okay they back away and are truly great sources of knowledge . They question all our assumptions women and men alike and in so doing they teach us things we'd never find out from a newsletter . As they say "If you can't stand the heat stay out of the kitchen " .
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Old 01-29-2008, 05:53 PM   #118
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What is it, specifically, about my very brief participation here on this forum that has some of you so riled up? Never in my life have I experienced such a gang-up.
I can tell you. Please take this as a sincere answer to your question.

I understand completely your desire to get people to understand that they too can save a fortune, and it's easier than one might think. I also understand your enthusiasm. The problem is a misinterpretation of that enthusiasm.

Your post started with:

"I went from working a minimum wage job as a college drop-out to financial freedom as a debt-free, self-made millionaire by age 40."

And your point was this:

"It's possible to become a financially independent millionaire, even if you're a college drop-out and working a minimum wage job. I want to share this information."

But this is how it comes across:

"Hey all you -- look at what an incredible person I am! I made a million bucks under difficult circumstances! Take a look at my blog, and you'll see how superior I am to all of you. And I'm writing a book, too!"

I understand that that is not what you are saying. Reread that original post objectively, looking at it from someone else's perspective, and you may understand my point. If I were to try to write a joke post, pretending to be someone who is really full of himself, I couldn't make one that is as clearcut as yours.

And note that this is not a gender issue. We've had men that have dropped in here sounding like they were god's gift to forums, with similar results.
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Old 01-29-2008, 05:54 PM   #119
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Can I have a do-over here? Please accept my humblest apology and allow me rewrite my "Hi, I am..." introduction:

"Hi, my pen name is MMND. I love to write, but I stink at it. I'm nothing special, so I hope you guys won't mind if I hang around - don't worry, after I beg you for your autographs, I won't get in anyone's way. You are all sooooo brilliant, and well, I'm just a stupid little pee-on. See, I'm just a flunk out in life 'cuz I couldn't afford to finish college.

And, uh, you all are just so stinkin' RICH! Wow! Tell me, what does it FEEL like to have so much money? Gosh, I'm really embarrassed to admit this here, but here goes...my net worth is only a measly 1.6MM. Yeah, I know, chump change. Embarrassing. Don't tell anyone, K? Can you super intelligent, super successful and super rich people pretty please spare me some time to give me a proper financial education so I can grow up to be as rich as you are? (I know I'll never be as smart or successful, so I won't even hope for that.)

Oh my gawd, I am so embarrassed to admit this to all of you, but here it goes. I mean, I did a really stupid thing. I sold my house... and I, uh, am a renter now. (I know, I know, what in the world was I thinking) Everyone told me I was nuts to believe that there was a housing bubble and someday it would have to pop - guess it was just dumb luck that it really did happen. Even poor, dummy people like me get lucky once in awhile. Thank goodness for luck or I'd be nowhere in life.

Since I'm in confession mode, I should add that I am so gullible and so naive that I fell for a get-rich-quick investment scheme. I paid some complete stranger $149 for a newsletter that says it offers some mathematical formula for knowing what mutual funds to buy (but I don't get what all those numbers mean, 'cuz remember, I couldn't afford to finish my college education). Since I paid so much for the stupid newsletter, I did try it. Thank gawd I got lucky again (someone's lookin' out for me, that's for sure), because my investments have been doing better than all of my friends for years, somehow. Dumb luck, I tell ya.

Please, smart people, obviously I need your help. If you don't save me from my stupid choices, I'm gonna end up in the poor house eatin' cat food. I can't do that to my little girl, ya know. So please, help me? Thank you, thank you, thank you, for listening to little 'ol me this long. I'm gonna go back to baking cookies - now that is the one thing I do know how to do!
MMND, I think your post above says it all, and it's not very flattering to you.
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Old 01-29-2008, 05:58 PM   #120
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Woohoo! We did it! We repelled the invader! High-5's all around.

The *last* thing we needed around here was another self-made 40-something millionaire with a slightly different take on the path to get there.

Is it safe to talk about passive index investing again?
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