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Old 01-29-2008, 07:55 PM   #141
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Oh wabbie, why do you continue to punish yourself if its all so bad?

Now that we've seen the nifty chart of a fund that incepted at the head of a bull market, can we see the one they had just before that which was scuttled when it took a face dive from 2000-2002?

Because all of this is really about data mining and surivor bias, isnt it? At $149 a pop?
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Old 01-29-2008, 07:55 PM   #142
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She lasted longer than most new posters who get attacked by the antibodies here.

I think it's a pretty natural reaction to lash out when cornered.

If you read through the attack posts, I think you'll find that her parody wasn't too far from the truth.
Bull S--- ! When I first posted I was attacked and made fun of by the infamous John Gault . If you scare that easily you'll never make it the world of publishing .
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Old 01-29-2008, 07:57 PM   #143
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Bull S--- ! When I first posted I was attacked and made fun of by the infamous John Gault . If you scare that easily you'll never make it the world of publishing .
I dunno. Somehow it seems being attacked by one oddball is different than being attacked by a mob, including a couple of moderators. Maybe it's just me.
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Old 01-29-2008, 08:03 PM   #144
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She lasted longer than most new posters who get attacked by the antibodies here.

I think it's a pretty natural reaction to lash out when cornered.

If you read through the attack posts, I think you'll find that her parody wasn't too far from the truth.

Twaddle,

Some people jump right in and expect to be welcomed and their views accepted without taking the time to get to know the culture and the people. Then they are surprised when they are not welcomed with open arms. Somehow the anonymous nature of the internet tells them this is ok. But, would you simply walk up to a group standing outside your favorite museum and extoll the virtues of rembrant before realizing they were there to see the kadinsky? That type of charging in doesn't work in the real world, but many don't realize it doesn't work here either.

If you want to get others to see your side, you need to first take the time to get to know them and to get them to know you.
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Old 01-29-2008, 08:06 PM   #145
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There have been plenty of new posters who were NOT attacked by a mob. I don't think the problem lies with the board of posters. If it did, I would expect the "antibody" response more often than just this once.
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Old 01-29-2008, 08:07 PM   #146
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Well, I'd like to see a momentum thread. I think twaddle is confusing close-mindedness and a healthy dose of skepticism borne of experience.

No-Load Fund-X? I was a subscriber for a few years. I just checked and the file did not escape my last clean-out. That should tell you something. Especially considering what a pack-rat I am.

IIRC, their algorithm for identifying the momentum funds was just a recent entry to the top 3 or 5 rank. When a new fund replaced it, they switched. Kind of like pop songs making the top 10 'with a bullet'.

It worked 'OK' for me - I imagine if you measured it on a risk adjusted basis, it would not look so great. And their charts did show that they fell faster than the market in a declining environment. Since I did marginally better than the S&P in a decent market, I decided to cash in my chips before a big dip came along.

But some form of momentum strategy might be worth consideration.

-ERD50

PS - I was disappointed by the OPs childish response. The OP struck me as a joke, I literally lol'd when I read it. I like to be proved wrong by first impressions - it helps me to keep an open mind. That one didn't help.

That attitude might get her some attention in some circles (Montel?), but it will likely backfire on her along the way. BTW, I think I now understand why her DH 'enjoys' spending a few days a week doing dirty, wet, smelly plumbing work in cramped corners.
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Old 01-29-2008, 08:07 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by cute fuzzy bunny View Post
Now that we've seen the nifty chart of a fund that incepted at the head of a bull market, can we see the one they had just before that which was scuttled when it took a face dive from 2000-2002?

Because all of this is really about data mining and surivor bias, isnt it? At $149 a pop?
I'm not going to defend her choice in investing. I bow down to the most recent investing fad passive index investing gurus here.

Here, you can read their propaganda for yourself:

NoLoad FundX | Mutual Fund Perfomance | Mutual Fund Investment Strategy
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Old 01-29-2008, 08:08 PM   #148
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Can I have a do-over here? Please accept my humblest apology and allow me rewrite my "Hi, I am..." introduction:

"Hi, my pen name is MMND. I love to write, but I stink at it. I'm nothing special, so I hope you guys won't mind if I hang around - don't worry, after I beg you for your autographs, I won't get in anyone's way. You are all sooooo brilliant, and well, I'm just a stupid little pee-on. See, I'm just a flunk out in life 'cuz I couldn't afford to finish college.

And, uh, you all are just so stinkin' RICH! Wow! Tell me, what does it FEEL like to have so much money? Gosh, I'm really embarrassed to admit this here, but here goes...my net worth is only a measly 1.6MM. Yeah, I know, chump change. Embarrassing. Don't tell anyone, K? Can you super intelligent, super successful and super rich people pretty please spare me some time to give me a proper financial education so I can grow up to be as rich as you are? (I know I'll never be as smart or successful, so I won't even hope for that.)

Oh my gawd, I am so embarrassed to admit this to all of you, but here it goes. I mean, I did a really stupid thing. I sold my house... and I, uh, am a renter now. (I know, I know, what in the world was I thinking) Everyone told me I was nuts to believe that there was a housing bubble and someday it would have to pop - guess it was just dumb luck that it really did happen. Even poor, dummy people like me get lucky once in awhile. Thank goodness for luck or I'd be nowhere in life.

Since I'm in confession mode, I should add that I am so gullible and so naive that I fell for a get-rich-quick investment scheme. I paid some complete stranger $149 for a newsletter that says it offers some mathematical formula for knowing what mutual funds to buy (but I don't get what all those numbers mean, 'cuz remember, I couldn't afford to finish my college education). Since I paid so much for the stupid newsletter, I did try it. Thank gawd I got lucky again (someone's lookin' out for me, that's for sure), because my investments have been doing better than all of my friends for years, somehow. Dumb luck, I tell ya.

Please, smart people, obviously I need your help. If you don't save me from my stupid choices, I'm gonna end up in the poor house eatin' cat food. I can't do that to my little girl, ya know. So please, help me? Thank you, thank you, thank you, for listening to little 'ol me this long. I'm gonna go back to baking cookies - now that is the one thing I do know how to do!

MMND,
You write very well. From your original post to the post above. The post above is hillarious.
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Old 01-29-2008, 08:13 PM   #149
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It really is a shame. Although MMND came across rather full of herself, she did bring up some interesting points and a new point of view is always welcome.
I think she was doing well after her initial post, until her most recent one.

I would enjoy hearing more of a discussion on this 'momentum investing'
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Old 01-29-2008, 08:13 PM   #150
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I'm a simple semi-newbie here, but if I had a sure fire way to make money in the stock market, I sure as hell wouldn't sell it to everyone for $149.

I'd invest my own money till I was so rich that Bill Gates was my pool boy.
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Old 01-29-2008, 08:15 PM   #151
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Bull S--- ! When I first posted I was attacked and made fun of by the infamous John Gault . If you scare that easily you'll never make it the world of publishing .
I was surprised at how unwilling she seemed to be, to discuss (not lecture on) anything substantive. She seemed to use the "you meanies are just so biased against intelligent women!" thing as a diversion tactic, so that we wouldn't notice what she was and wasn't saying. I don't know why she would do that, but that how I perceived it.

In real life, the adjective people most often apply to me (much to my chagrin), is "sweet". My impression of her was that she was immature and probably didn't write much of that blog, and never intended to stay on the board very long. So what would a person have thought who really IS a meanie?
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Old 01-29-2008, 08:16 PM   #152
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If you folks want to talk about momentum investing, why doesn't one of you start a thread?
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Old 01-29-2008, 08:18 PM   #153
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If you folks want to talk about momentum investing, why doesn't one of you start a thread?
Maybe because it's more entertaining to just grouse about it?
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Old 01-29-2008, 08:18 PM   #154
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There have been plenty of new posters who were NOT attacked by a mob. I don't think the problem lies with the board of posters. If it did, I would expect the "antibody" response more often than just this once.
Oh, this isn't the first time it's happened. And I'm infamous for squawking sometimes when it does happen.

I'm not defending her. I understand the qualities people didn't like and how she triggered the defense system here. But two things seem obvious to me:

1) We have lots of obnoxious folks here, and we generally tolerate them.

2) When somebody is obnoxious and *new*, that seems to require even more tolerance. For some reason, it triggers the "take down" reflex instead.

I don't want to blow this out of proportion, but defending unpopular viewpoints and unpopular people is important. The world has a sad history of intolerence, so I guess I overcompensate a bit on the side of tolerance for the unpopular.

Of course, some people are justly unpopular. The criminal. The insane. H0kus. Those people should be given bus fare to the next forum.

What I really dislike seeing is when somebody with expertise in some topic that is poorly represented here (like health insurance) is run out of town. This new poster had some unique experiences.
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Old 01-29-2008, 08:26 PM   #155
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I wanna hear about the dang cookies! - sounds like a heck of a home based business for a guy - plus I cook in my PJ's sometime.

Stocks are easy. Cookies are tough!

Plus we we got snow all over the place and it probably is less expensive than remodeling something.

heh heh heh - momentum players are a dime a dozen - scratch an active manager and you have a closet mo man.
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Old 01-29-2008, 08:32 PM   #156
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BTW, I think I now understand why her DH 'enjoys' spending a few days a week doing dirty, wet, smelly plumbing work in cramped corners.
My thoughts exactly.
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Old 01-29-2008, 08:34 PM   #157
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I was surprised at how unwilling she seemed to be, to discuss (not lecture on) anything substantive. She seemed to use the "you meanies are just so biased against intelligent women!" thing as a diversion tactic, so that we wouldn't notice what she was and wasn't saying. I don't know why she would do that, but that how I perceived it.

In real life, the adjective people most often apply to me (much to my chagrin), is "sweet". My impression of her was that she was immature and probably didn't write much of that blog, and never intended to stay on the board very long. So what would a person have thought who really IS a meanie?
I scanned the thread to see "where it all went wrong" and really - after the 1st reply from Maurice saying she was spam, others jumped in and threw her several life lines.

Many complimented her blog.

Then, the more she shared and people began asking pretty mild questions - she got huffy and never gave justification or even just disagreed - other than "I said it works for me...dammit"

She said she wanted to make friends in similar situations as her, but I imagine she fares better amongst the general population, eyeball high in debt and can't save a nickel. they can all look at her and go "gee wow!" and she can spout her wisdom. LOTS of the financial gurus make their millions that way Suze basically says the same stuff every day.

I hope she realizes that this thread now comes up second, after her blog if you google her name...
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Old 01-29-2008, 08:41 PM   #158
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Twaddle,

Some people jump right in and expect to be welcomed and their views accepted without taking the time to get to know the culture and the people. Then they are surprised when they are not welcomed with open arms. Somehow the anonymous nature of the internet tells them this is ok. But, would you simply walk up to a group standing outside your favorite museum and extoll the virtues of rembrant before realizing they were there to see the kadinsky? That type of charging in doesn't work in the real world, but many don't realize it doesn't work here either.

If you want to get others to see your side, you need to first take the time to get to know them and to get them to know you.
Sandy, you are a part of that group. What negative behavior by members of that group would you defend/rationalize? I think the spotlight is on the group. Doesn't look pretty to me in full light.
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Old 01-29-2008, 08:41 PM   #159
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In some sort of interest of full disclosure, MMND and I exchanged a series of private emails beginning after[moderator edit]. While I won't post the content here as I want to respect her privacy, I will say she appeared to be asking me for help on understanding her reception here on the board, and my responses were in my own words but reflected much of what has been said here. The exchange appears to have ended for now with her last reply to me being a copy of her "Do over" post in this thread and me saying that her feelings were regrettable and that I thought she was among peers -- that we were neither below her or above her.

MMND, if you read this, you have my complete permission to post our full exchange publicly on this board, with the one request that you delete my real name, personal email and phone numbers which are part of that exchange.

So to the board, if you feel she was run off on a rail, I am certainly partly to blame and perhaps mostly so.

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Old 01-29-2008, 08:48 PM   #160
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Okay, from a post by me:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TickTock
I'd also recommend a cash cushion of five years to help ride out market downturns once you do start living off your portfolio.
Her reply:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MillionaireMommyNextDoor View Post
This would be a great idea if I was a buy-and-hold investor. But I'm not.
This shows a basic misunderstanding. It has nothing to do with buy-and-hold; it concerns expected return, volatility, and drawdown rate. The Trinity study demonstrates this. MMND has a great deal of research linked and posted, but this idea eascapes her...

And yes, I'm aware that not everyone agrees with me. Billy and Akaisha have sucessfully ER'd for 17 years starting with 100% equities... starting with a strong overall bull market. Given the same situation starting in 1972, I think the outcome would have been different. Now, this is not to say that the (very conservative) equity/debt split and 4% SWR is THE WAY to go... but it is to say that if you retire into a worst-case scenario, you'd better realize the risk and have a backup plan. (I'll also note that the Kaderli's have not increased their annual spending at a 3% rate, which also changes calculations.)
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