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Old 05-12-2013, 02:42 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by cranberryjoe View Post
I don't know about this particular situation, but at my megacorp some people have different benefit structures and different pension plans because they came on board through acquisitions of other companies. If you move to another location, your pension plan moves with you as far as I know.


Usually when a company acquires another company.... that second company is not closed... it may stay as a separate company even if the name changes... I know this is one way to keep acquired employees on an old pension plan... also, since it is a separate company, any new employees of that company should be on that old plan...


It might be that in one place there is a union and in another there is not... I forgot about the union exception... something like if people are represented by a union, they can have a separate pension plan that others in a company do not have to be offered...

Maybe someone with more knowledge about this will chime in.... my info is only based on things I have read.... and a long time ago at that....
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Old 05-12-2013, 02:43 PM   #22
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Going-Early, I owe you. I now remember there was something magic about being 49.5 yrs old and older regarding the pension. I went back in and re-ran the numbers and checked "anticipate being laid off" vs. not being laid off. When doing that the result was only reducing by the last 2.5 years of accrual for me and no PENALTY was applied. Thanks again...
Just to be safe, it would be wise to get an official clarification from HR in writing stating that if they offer you a relocated position in another city but you decline, it's still considered that you were laid off, and not some other creative term that included some severance.

(however, as a St. Louis resident, it is a pretty nice place to live and work...just sayin! )
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Old 05-12-2013, 02:47 PM   #23
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Oops. Sorry to be unclear. The $2900 monthly pension is if I work until my 55th Bday. If I go into the tool and put in 54 yrs, 11 months its reduced by 40%. If I put in today (52.5 years old), it's reduced by about 50%. These reductions are if I just leave without being laid off. Thanks!

Wow... that seems like a big hit for taking your retirement one month early....

But, from what you seem to be saying now..... if you do NOT start your retirement until you are 55, you still will get $2,900 per month (or maybe a little less since you did not work the last few years)....

I would think this would hold true being laid off or just leaving on your own...
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Old 05-12-2013, 04:11 PM   #24
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Hi. I am sorry you have to go through this. Hopefully you have been diligently tracking your expenses since joining the forum. If not you should look into doing that. Using you credit card and bank statements you should be able to get two or three years spending information. Its easy to cut the budget a bit and know what is truly realistic for YOU once you know what you have been spending on in the past.


Have you run FIRECalc with your numbers to see what the Max spending is with 95% success? That may give you a good handle on the level of cuts you'd need to make.

All the best to you. I am hoping this works out better than you can imagine.
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Old 05-12-2013, 04:17 PM   #25
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"Centers of excellence"

We see who learned to use doublespeak.
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Old 05-12-2013, 04:53 PM   #26
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I can't even imagine how that would feel. You are 52 years of age and think that you have your ducks in a row and bam. I don't have any words of wisdom, but hope that you can hold old until 55 or that it is the way that Going-Early remembers. Best of luck and I hope it works out right for you.
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Old 05-12-2013, 05:59 PM   #27
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Going-Early, I owe you. I now remember there was something magic about being 49.5 yrs old and older regarding the pension. I went back in and re-ran the numbers and checked "anticipate being laid off" vs. not being laid off. When doing that the result was only reducing by the last 2.5 years of accrual for me and no PENALTY was applied. Thanks again...
No Problem. I registered and posted just to ease your anxiety. The funny thiing is (at my location anyway), if you planned on leaving at 55 and can request a layoff at 54, you would collect 6 months severance pay and any remaining unemployement. You would end up ahead by being home a year early by getting laid off. Of course the employer wouldnt be as interested in this plan as the employee would be.
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Old 05-12-2013, 07:14 PM   #28
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Wow... that seems like a big hit for taking your retirement one month early....
I'm sorry to hear you are facing possible layoff or other restructuring that could so drastically affect your pension. I have no direct experience like this, but I have heard many terrible stories from friends in HR about companies that worked hard to layoff or reclassify workers in the last two years before they would be owed a pension. I hope after that many years that your megacorp will treat you fairly, but I doubt you can count on that.
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Old 05-12-2013, 08:01 PM   #29
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Hi. I am sorry you have to go through this. Hopefully you have been diligently tracking your expenses since joining the forum. If not you should look into doing that. Using you credit card and bank statements you should be able to get two or three years spending information. Its easy to cut the budget a bit and know what is truly realistic for YOU once you know what you have been spending on in the past.


Have you run FIRECalc with your numbers to see what the Max spending is with 95% success? That may give you a good handle on the level of cuts you'd need to make.

All the best to you. I am hoping this works out better than you can imagine.

Hi, I have run FIRECALC and it comes up at 93% based on working until 55 and my what I plan to spend annually etc. Ultimately I'd like to finish out with my company and not make a decision early so I'm trying to be as flexible and realistic as possible. Also keeping retiree medical is very important as well as the majority of the pension.

Starting in 2013 I've started tracking expenses much closer. On the surface I spend less on groceries than I budgeted but probably more on unplanned gifts etc (friends kids are graduating from college etc).

Thanks for the kind words.
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Old 05-12-2013, 08:25 PM   #30
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Hi, I have run FIRECALC and it comes up at 93% based on working until 55 and my what I plan to spend annually etc. Ultimately I'd like to finish out with my company and not make a decision early so I'm trying to be as flexible and realistic as possible. Also keeping retiree medical is very important as well as the majority of the pension.

Starting in 2013 I've started tracking expenses much closer. On the surface I spend less on groceries than I budgeted but probably more on unplanned gifts etc (friends kids are graduating from college etc).

Thanks for the kind words.
93% is very respectable ! When faced with a similar "job relocation" situation I started asking friends if they would entertain sharing a small apartment to get us through the worst of it. You'd be surprised how many said they were thinking about it but didn't know how to bring it up.

Flexibility is key. I'm always amazed by the resiliency we have.
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Old 05-12-2013, 09:53 PM   #31
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Wow... that seems like a big hit for taking your retirement one month early....

But, from what you seem to be saying now..... if you do NOT start your retirement until you are 55, you still will get $2,900 per month (or maybe a little less since you did not work the last few years)....

I would think this would hold true being laid off or just leaving on your own...
Hi, "Going-Early" works for the same company and gave me a good tip. I was in error on the 50% hit to monthly pension. If you are laid off (voluntary or not) the penalty is much less.

so $2900 becomes ~ $2650 vs. $1500 like I thought before. That 50% is if you just up and quit. My error.
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Old 05-12-2013, 09:57 PM   #32
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Ouch is right...I don't think it's unusual for older HCE's to find themselves in this situation nowadays though...corporations are really lobbying hard to increase the number of H1B visas.

Does the severence come close to making up the difference in the pension payouts if you elect ER?

DB plans are almost non-existent in the private sector anymore. I guess that this was to be expected at some point as well. Hope you're prepared and that things work out for you.
The severance is 26 weeks pay so I'd need to run the numbers. This voluntary layoff is a one time offering within IT only. "Retire-early" poster gave me a tip and there is something magic about being 49.5 yrs old (or older) and being laid off so that would take some of the sting out of the pension reduction. I owe him/her one for pointing that out. Cheers.
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Old 05-13-2013, 05:58 AM   #33
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Current management reminiscent of Jack Welch.

During the early 1980s he was dubbed "Neutron Jack" (in reference to the neutron bomb) for eliminating employees while leaving buildings intact.

Hang in there Supernova. Today will be a rough day.

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Old 05-13-2013, 06:20 AM   #34
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Oops. Sorry to be unclear. The $2900 monthly pension is if I work until my 55th Bday. If I go into the tool and put in 54 yrs, 11 months its reduced by 40%. If I put in today (52.5 years old), it's reduced by about 50%. These reductions are if I just leave without being laid off. Thanks!
Assuming a 25-year retirement, you're looking at a hit of close to half a million dollars. You would clearly be nuts to go quietly. If you currently earn $7,000/mo then it would be in your interest to work for free for the remaining 2.5 years!

Where you may have some scope for leverage is in the likely fact that the person deciding who gets relocated/cut/etc probably has different numbers influencing his/her targets (for example, they may not include pension liabililties, and if they do, they may not be your actual numbers, but some notional ones). One thing you can maybe start to do today is to try and find out what criteria are being used, and how you can game them to your advantage when it comes to one-on-one negotiations. With 1,500 people to move/downsize, you're going to be dealing with someone either external or junior, who probably doesn't care about the company's overall best interests either way, as long as he/she gets the boxes ticked.
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Old 05-13-2013, 06:38 AM   #35
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An interesting read -> Store | Financial Samurai

Also on the topic of gaming the system, suggest that you get familiar with the terms of COBRA and PPACA (aka ObamaCare.) Boeing has a pretty sweet deal for subsidized health care for retirees. AFAIK thats off the table with a layoff.

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Old 05-13-2013, 08:29 AM   #36
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I am still waiting for the day when mega corps start announcing it is now time to downsize executive compensation and benefits to maintain some semblance of parity with the working class
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Old 05-13-2013, 08:34 AM   #37
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I am still waiting for the day when mega corps start announcing it is now time to downsize executive compensation and benefits to maintain some semblance of parity with the working class
You might as well wait for Godot....
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Old 05-13-2013, 08:36 AM   #38
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Also on the topic of gaming the system, suggest that you get familiar with the terms of COBRA and PPACA (aka ObamaCare.) Boeing has a pretty sweet deal for subsidized health care for retirees. AFAIK thats off the table with a layoff.
In most cases, I think employers who offer retiree health care (assuming it's not being taken away) will give it to those who are laid off if they already have the age and years of service to be eligible for retirement just as they would still receive their pension (if any). And sometimes they will allow you to retire in lieu of being laid off, but that's not necessarily as common. The devil is in the details here.
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"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)

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Old 05-13-2013, 08:59 AM   #39
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I am still waiting for the day when mega corps start announcing it is now time to downsize executive compensation and benefits to maintain some semblance of parity with the working class

Ha Ha Ha !!!! You are a funny guy.

In reality they will probably reward themselves with bigger pay and benefits for the good job they did getting rid of the detritus known as "hard working, loyal employees."


'
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:04 AM   #40
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The reality is that the handwriting was on the wall a few years ago when the corporate headquarters was moved from Seattle to Chicago. The message was and is clear: We will move work to areas that make us more cost competitive.

I suspect they will continue to move work to lower cost areas in and out of the USA. However, the experience with the 787 will probably slow that process down quite a bit. They learned that there is no substitute for experienced engineers and assembly workers when it comes to complex, critical devices such as airplanes. (Tour a Boeing plant when you get a chance. It is amazingly complex and organized. I am in awe of how they assemble a modern jet aircraft.) Still, it will take time to develop the necessary expertise outside the Seattle area. The 787 provided ample proof of that.

One local legislator has already mentioned going out and trying to lure some Airbus contracts. I think he has the right idea. Moaning and groaning over Boeing will do little good. Keeping skills current and managing one's finances so that one is not vulnerable to the winds of corporate decisions is the only way to survive in the future.

The saying in the Seattle area used to be "If it's not Boeing, I'm not going." It should now be "Boeing is going, build a bridge and get over it."
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