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Old 05-16-2013, 06:36 PM   #61
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What exactly is a Center of Excellence supposed to be/do? ....
The megacorp I worked for did alot of medical device manufacturing. They took the functions of Human Resources, Finance and General Services (Buyers) out of the various plants and consolidated them into a Service Center in Texas. It's cost cutting.
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Old 05-19-2013, 07:39 PM   #62
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Oh how art imitates life. From the movie "Margin Call":

John Tuld: So, what you're telling me, is that the music is about to stop, and we're going to be left holding the biggest bag of odorous excrement ever assembled in the history of capitalism.

Peter Sullivan: Sir, I not sure that I would put it that way, but let me clarify using your analogy. What this model shows is the music, so to speak, just slowing. If the music were to stop, as you put it, then this model wouldn't even be close to that scenario. It would be considerably worse.

John Tuld: Let me tell you something, Mr. Sullivan. Do you care to know why I'm in this chair with you all? I mean, why I earn the big bucks.

Peter Sullivan: Yes.

John Tuld: I'm here for one reason and one reason alone. I'm hear to guess what the music might do a week, a month, a year from now. That's it. Nothing more. And standing here tonight, I'm afraid that I don't hear - a - thing. Just... silence.

Extreme use of leverage on exotic financial instruments led to the '07 global margin call. Thusly played out in the movie.

Bleeding edge technology outsourced to providers around the globe, a product delivered almost three years late, perhaps leading to the '87 global margin call. Thusly played out in real life.

Just sayin.

Full disclosure: Zedd works for the same megacorp as the OP. Received my invitaton for a voluntary lay off (VLO). package on Friday. I think I'll take it.

As Edward R Murrow used to say "Good night and good luck".

zedd
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Old 05-19-2013, 08:06 PM   #63
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I found this graph surprising: IT Labor force is now back down to the 1990 level.

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Old 05-19-2013, 08:54 PM   #64
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I found this graph surprising: IT Labor force is now back down to the 1990 level.
Could someone explain o me what IT is? Both my kids are software managers and/or developers; I have never heard either of them or any of their friends refer to themselves as IT.

It must include a much broader field than software development, as there are huge industries in many cities (we all know which cities they are) which were much smaller in 1990. A lot of jobs had to been lost somewhere else to allow all that growth in software and overall stasis. And it cannot be outsourcing; software firms also bring many programmers into the US. They would like to bring a lot more if the H1B issue can be resolved toward more liberality.

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Old 05-19-2013, 09:39 PM   #65
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Could someone explain o me what IT is? Both my kids are software managers and/or developers; I have never heard either of them or any of their friends refer to themselves as IT.

It must include a much broader field than software development, as there are huge industries in many cities (we all know which cities they are) which were much smaller in 1990. A lot of jobs had to been lost somewhere else to allow all that growth in software and overall stasis. And it cannot be outsourcing; software firms also bring many programmers into the US. They would like to bring a lot more if the H1B issue can be resolved toward more liberality.

Ha
Your kids are in IT, however they speak of it.

Outsourcing was certainly part of it. About 7 or 8 years ago IBM announced it would outsource 75% of its jobs, mostly to India. I haven't kept tally, but there have been numerous announcements of layoffs from IBM since. So, I assume that they did what they said they were going to do. Across the IT industry I don't know if IBM's case was exceptional or not.

Bill Gates and others in the IT industry want expanded work visas for skilled foreigners as a way of keeping wages down for IT workers. Microsoft's cash reserves are now at $68bln, so it's hard to make the case that high labor costs are preventing them from expanding the business.
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Old 05-19-2013, 09:43 PM   #66
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Good question. When I started in the field around 1980 it was called Data Processing. I worked as a low level software coder for a government agency (GCOS anyone?) Right around '86 the field became known as Management Information Systems. Some time later just plain old Information Systems -- proving that management was clueless anyway. Sometime around 2000 it became IT (Information Technology).

What does IT actually mean now these days? It means being able to collaborate with others in multiple timezones.

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Old 05-19-2013, 09:54 PM   #67
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Your kids are in IT, however they speak of it.

Outsourcing was certainly part of it. About 7 or 8 years ago IBM announced it would outsource 75% of its jobs, mostly to India. I haven't kept tally, but there have been numerous announcements of layoffs from IBM since. So, I assume that they did what they said they were going to do. Across the IT industry I don't know if IBM's case was exceptional or not.

Bill Gates and others in the IT industry want expanded work visas for skilled foreigners as a way of keeping wages down for IT workers. Microsoft's cash reserves are now at $68bln, so it's hard to make the case that high labor costs are preventing them from expanding the business.
It is not about labor costs, but more about a lack of enough highly prepared and capable us workers.

Your question is obviously answered by checking the employment at Amazon, MS, Google, Yahoo, etc etc. Their US employment is many times what it was in 1990, 2000,etc.

What the US wants instead of highly educated and well behaved scientists and developers and engineers is lot of poor, uneducated people from all over the world, but especially from south.

Go figure.

Ha
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Old 05-19-2013, 10:01 PM   #68
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Generally the term IT (Information Technology) is used to refer to the people responsible for either making business software or more commonly deploying computers, technology and increasingly hand held devices and keeping them running on all the various desks and work locations in a company. Most people in software development positions or developing hardware or software products do not refer to themselves as IT, but the distinction is blurry and different companies use the terms differently and sometimes interchangeably.
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Old 05-19-2013, 10:02 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by zedd View Post
Oh how art imitates life. From the movie "Margin Call":

John Tuld: So, what you're telling me, is that the music is about to stop, and we're going to be left holding the biggest bag of odorous excrement ever assembled in the history of capitalism.

Peter Sullivan: Sir, I not sure that I would put it that way, but let me clarify using your analogy. What this model shows is the music, so to speak, just slowing. If the music were to stop, as you put it, then this model wouldn't even be close to that scenario. It would be considerably worse.

John Tuld: Let me tell you something, Mr. Sullivan. Do you care to know why I'm in this chair with you all? I mean, why I earn the big bucks.

Peter Sullivan: Yes.

John Tuld: I'm here for one reason and one reason alone. I'm hear to guess what the music might do a week, a month, a year from now. That's it. Nothing more. And standing here tonight, I'm afraid that I don't hear - a - thing. Just... silence.

Extreme use of leverage on exotic financial instruments led to the '07 global margin call. Thusly played out in the movie.

Bleeding edge technology outsourced to providers around the globe, a product delivered almost three years late, perhaps leading to the '87 global margin call. Thusly played out in real life.

Just sayin.

Full disclosure: Zedd works for the same megacorp as the OP. Received my invitaton for a voluntary lay off (VLO). package on Friday. I think I'll take it.

As Edward R Murrow used to say "Good night and good luck".

zedd
Thanks for the update Zedd. Turns out after a week of banging through numbers and wondering if the VLO was right for me our organization did not ge the "VLO Letter" on Friday. Apparently our org is not in a surplus condition (didn't know that for sure" so unless they submitted surplus job codes you can't take advantage of it).

It's too bad for one of our staff since she is of retirement age and was looking forward to the 6 months pay and calling it an IT career.

We are a pretty small team and have not been backfilling for more than a year now. That may have been why we were not VLO candidates.

So I'll say congrats to you in having the opportunity to take advantage of this one time offer. I'll keep an eye on the CoE's for you. Not exactly sure where from yet

Could be a lot worse indeed.
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Old 05-19-2013, 10:02 PM   #70
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Your kids are in IT, however they speak of it.

Outsourcing was certainly part of it. About 7 or 8 years ago IBM announced it would outsource 75% of its jobs, mostly to India. I haven't kept tally, but there have been numerous announcements of layoffs from IBM since. So, I assume that they did what they said they were going to do. Across the IT industry I don't know if IBM's case was exceptional or not.

Bill Gates and others in the IT industry want expounded work visas for skilled foreigners as a way of keeping wages down for IT workers. Microsoft's cash reserves are now at $68bln, so it's hard to make the case that high labor costs are preventing them from expanding the business.
Call up the balance sheet for any fortune 50 company. What stands out -- they are sitting on a mountain of cash.

The emphasis has gone from stakeholder (employer, employee, customer, supplier) to stockholder to corporate entity (whats in it for me.)

Zedd
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Old 05-19-2013, 10:03 PM   #71
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The STL paper has been mentioning the transfer of the 600 jobs from Seattle. Of course it is being written about as a positive event for the city. The paper cited two reasons for part of the reason. The average IT job salary is $15,000 cheaper in STL, than in Seattle. They also mentioned a second reason that I found interesting. They don't have to worry about the other corps such as Microsoft up there stealing their workers or having to fight escalating salary offers to keep employees. Paper referred to the possibility that they wanted to be the ones stealing workers with better salary offers than what local upstart companies are paying here. But of course at lower salaries than presently paying in Seattle.
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Old 05-19-2013, 10:14 PM   #72
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Generally the term IT (Information Technology) is used to refer to the people responsible for either making business software or more commonly deploying computers, technology and increasingly hand held devices and keeping them running on all the various desks and work locations in a company. Most people in software development positions or developing hardware or software products do not refer to themselves as IT, but the distinction is blurry and different companies use the terms differently and sometimes interchangeably.
Thank you, this explains for me very well.

Ha
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Old 05-19-2013, 10:19 PM   #73
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Call up the balance sheet for any fortune 50 company. What stands out -- they are sitting on a mountain of cash.

The emphasis has gone from stakeholder (employer, employee, customer, supplier) to stockholder to corporate entity (whats in it for me.)

Zedd
Yet dividends are still pretty low historically. Seems like management has been claiming an ever larger share of the pie at the expense of both shareholders and employees. Microsoft is not paying out any substantial portion of that $68bln in dividends, you'll notice.
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Old 05-20-2013, 12:30 PM   #74
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Call up the balance sheet for any fortune 50 company. What stands out -- they are sitting on a mountain of cash.
I wonder how much of that is from foreign earnings? American Corps have huge amount of earnings overseas that they are hesitant to bring home because they must pay a full income tax on it. Most foreign countries do not tax income earned in other countries.

Perhaps, if we lowered the tax rate on those earnings to say 5-10% we might see a lot more of it invested here. And get a small boost in government revenues.
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Old 05-20-2013, 12:54 PM   #75
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I think there's a lot of talk about tax holidays. Fact that there is talk indicates corporations are seeding that talk and probably lobbying for it.

Even though many of the biggest corporations pay no or low taxes already.

If they brought those profits home, there's no guarantee they'd invest in jobs here. Presumably a lot of those profits were earned from low-cost labor overseas.
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Old 05-20-2013, 01:22 PM   #76
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If they brought those profits home, there's no guarantee they'd invest in jobs here.
All you have to do is look at the unprecedented pile of cash they are sitting on (collectively). That they would rather sit on a record amount of cash earning 1% than either reinvest in the business *or* pay out dividends with it gives you a good idea of what many corporations would do if they given additional tax breaks. (Hint: It wouldn't be "distribute to shareholders" or "hang the help wanted sign".)
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Old 05-20-2013, 01:27 PM   #77
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So you would think they could attach specific conditions, like you get a tax credit for each $ you spend of repatriated funds on new jobs or capital outlays.

More R&D credits (or do they already have those in place?) and so on.

Didn't politicians say they would eliminate the tax breaks or advantages for offshoring companies? You'd think there would be some kind of incentives for creating jobs but those are usually at the state level.
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Old 05-20-2013, 02:28 PM   #78
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Good question. When I started in the field around 1980 it was called Data Processing. I worked as a low level software coder for a government agency (GCOS anyone?) Right around '86 the field became known as Management Information Systems. Some time later just plain old Information Systems -- proving that management was clueless anyway. Sometime around 2000 it became IT (Information Technology).
I always thought Americans referred to IS (Information Systems), or MIS, or DP. Some time in the early 2000s I discovered that they had apparently imported the term IT from Europe, rather to my surprise.
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Old 05-20-2013, 04:20 PM   #79
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I always thought Americans referred to IS (Information Systems), or MIS, or DP. Some time in the early 2000s I discovered that they had apparently imported the term IT from Europe, rather to my surprise.
It may have as much to do with age as location.

I have been in pretty much the same industries (mostly manufacturing and transportation, some telecom) serving the same business function (at various levels of responsibility) for over 25 years. When I started, you could tell who the old guys were because they still referred to the department/function as Data Processing (DP) rather than MIS or IS. Then it changed to IT; now, some engineers (of the software variety, QA variety, etc.) are offended by being called IT reserving that for the folks running network cables and installing operating systems on desktops, etc. So, I now have software engineers, quality engineers, etc. working for me as well as an IT group.

To address the OP: At least many of the jobs being lost in Seattle are moving across the country rather than accross the globe. This should give some employees a chance for relocation if needed/desired. (I have had entirely too much exposure to the other kind of outsourcing, an ocean and many time zones away, over the years as well and have never seen it work as well as advertised for anyone involved.)
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