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Old 04-04-2013, 09:56 PM   #41
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Perhaps mean and women may see this differently.
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Old 04-04-2013, 09:58 PM   #42
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It is probably too late to get the benefits of the tax losses if he did not take them... you only get 3 years to amend a return...
If the bulk of the losses were in 2008 you're probably right, but my point was to get as much out of the losses as possible. If it ends up that is zero, then it is what it is.
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Old 04-04-2013, 09:59 PM   #43
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Perhaps mean and women may see this differently. ....
Freudian slip?
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Old 04-04-2013, 10:06 PM   #44
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No, spellcheck! Fixed now.
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Old 04-04-2013, 10:19 PM   #45
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I saw tax returns and they had minimum losses (around $3,000). He says there's a certain amount you can deduct each year that we have a huge tax loss to carry forward. I had the tax accountant do taxes for 4 of those years because we were overseas, but he did them this year. And now that brings up another realization--that's another thing I need to take control over and remove from him. F&&ck anyway. Sorry.

And, yes, I am in shock, which explains why I'm so calm. I'll probably blow up in a couple of days when the magnitude of this hits home. I assume this is a bit like grieving a death and there are 5 or so stages to go through.

I don't have an answer for the marriage because mentally I'm just not ready to think about it. My first priority is my kids and getting on my feet so I'm independent. Can we stay married? Perhaps, I'm sure others have gone through worse and survived. Will we? I really don't know. I can't imagine breaking up the family, but I can't live like this either. I realize the ball is entirely in my court. He's said he'll do whatever I want, including granting a divorce and alimony or stay together for the sake of the kids w/o the "marriage" bit or marriage counseling. I don't know. I'm just not at any stage to discuss it yet and would rather plug the holes in the ship before I look at +/- of selling it off or keeping it.

All I know is that a lot of tears have been shed tonight from both of us and we will probably have more days like this. He has been willing to answer my questions--it's a matter of whether or not I believe him and is this over yet?? Or will I be blindsided with something else I have that feeling where I don't know if I'm going to get hit with a bat again or if it's over.

And we are far from the hugging stage, pb4uski, and I'm not thanking him for his courage. I feel that I've been pretty fair and civilized so far--though that may change as this sinks in more--I haven't verbally beaten him up but I have made my feelings/fears/concerns clear. And there has been a lot of why? how could you let it go this far? etc? etc? He is doing a good job beating himself up. He told me one of the things he considered to get out of it was buying a big insurance policy and killing himself. I don't know how much thought he gave to that or if it was a go-easy-on-me ploy. I told him 1. that wouldn't work because insurance companies have timeframes from issuance to death and it would invalidate it and 2. Don't even think about leaving me with more emotional $hit and baggage for two young kids to carry their entire lives. Maybe my response comes off harsh, but that's where I was at the moment. I think he is over that hurdle and has realized he wants to be here to see the kids grow up.

My god, how a day changes a life. Wish these were somebody else's shoes I was wearing.
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Old 04-04-2013, 10:49 PM   #46
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Sassy, I'm so sorry... I had feared this would be the case.

All I can suggest is to not make any hasty moves at the moment in terms of the marriage relationship. Yes, you are in shock - which is the very reason you should not be thinking about major changes now.

This is one of those "give me the courage to change things I can" moments. I think the first thing, as you are doing and has been suggested, is to get a complete and true picture of your finances. Then once that is in place, determine, based on where you hope to end up financially, what needs to be done to try to get back on track. Perhaps it means something like your husband working a 2nd job to try to make up as much as possible.

One thing you should not waiver on - you need to be in control of the money. He seems very willing to do that now. But - as a warning - 3, six, nine months, a year down the road, when hopefully things are more stable, he might start making sounds again about managing some of the money... that is the time when you really need to stay strong and keep saying no.
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Old 04-04-2013, 10:59 PM   #47
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Sassy

I'm very sorry to hear about your situation. I do think that taking the steps to take control of the finances is the right thing to do.

I realize it is early days, but I would think that marriage counseling and/or individual counseling might be in order.

With regard to finding work I wouldn't necessarily assume that your English degree is worthless. My son is an English major and his plan is to go into technical writing. There are job opportunities available in business/technical writing that can pay decently. Also, remember that for some jobs they just want someone with a degree and it really doesn't matter that much what the degree is in.
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Old 04-05-2013, 04:22 AM   #48
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I would seriously refrain from providing any personal relationship advice to someone who is going through such a painful experience. Firstly, I doubt if anyone on this site is qualified. Secondly, any advice provided is superficial as no one here understands the depth and complexity of the issues Sassy is dealing with. Thirdly, there are a lot of people on any Internet site who are not well intentioned. Everyone here is a stranger to you. Do not take any advice provided here without a pinch of salt.Lastly Sassy, take time to figure out what you want and need and seek counsel from professionals and people you know and trust.
All the best.
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Old 04-05-2013, 05:11 AM   #49
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I would seriously refrain from providing any personal relationship advice to someone who is going through such a painful experience. Firstly, I doubt if anyone on this site is qualified. Secondly, any advice provided is superficial as no one here understands the depth and complexity of the issues Sassy is dealing with. Thirdly, there are a lot of people on any Internet site who are not well intentioned. Everyone here is a stranger to you. Do not take any advice provided here without a pinch of salt.Lastly Sassy, take time to figure out what you want and need and seek counsel from professionals and people you know and trust.
All the best.
THIS is great advice. Everyone on this board wants to help out and provide support, but relationship advice from us probably isn't warranted. I will say, all of the financial stuff you have been offered is excellent. We truly do hope everything works out for you. Good luck.
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Old 04-05-2013, 07:03 AM   #50
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I would seriously refrain from providing any personal relationship advice to someone who is going through such a painful experience. Firstly, I doubt if anyone on this site is qualified. Secondly, any advice provided is superficial as no one here understands the depth and complexity of the issues Sassy is dealing with. Thirdly, there are a lot of people on any Internet site who are not well intentioned. Everyone here is a stranger to you. Do not take any advice provided here without a pinch of salt.Lastly Sassy, take time to figure out what you want and need and seek counsel from professionals and people you know and trust.
All the best.
WADR jags, your post is a perceptive glimpse of the obvious. Sassy seems to be a pretty sharp cookie and would intuitively know all of that. Besides, all of what you say could be applied to equally to financial and investment advice unless all of us are qualified finance and investment pros. What we are doing is no different from what a friend might do for a friend going through a personal crisis.

From my experience on this site I haven't seen any inkling of the "not well intentioned" thing and if it did occur, I think other participants would jump on a poorly intentioned post real quick. Not many wallflowers around here.
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Old 04-05-2013, 08:01 AM   #51
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WADR jags, your post is a perceptive glimpse of the obvious. Sassy seems to be a pretty sharp cookie and would intuitively know all of that. Besides, all of what you say could be applied to equally to financial and investment advice unless all of us are qualified finance and investment pros. What we are doing is no different from what a friend might do for a friend going through a personal crisis.

From my experience on this site I haven't seen any inkling of the "not well intentioned" thing and if it did occur, I think other participants would jump on a poorly intentioned post real quick. Not many wallflowers around here.
Really? An internet " friend" she's known all of 45 posts and one who does not know her or her dear husband from a bar of soap.
Let's not get a disproportionate sense of one's own importance here.
OP's been through he'll in the last few days/weeks/months. The last thing she needs is an Internet Dr.Phil /Oprah giving relationship advice
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Old 04-05-2013, 08:04 AM   #52
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But...giving advice on everything from what type of investments you should make, what brand of soap you should use and how to deal with a misbehaving spouse is what we do here.

Would you have us shut the board down entirely?

From the Community Rules:
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Do your own due diligence!
People who are professionals in a variety of fields post on this forum and share their general knowledge. Many of them are brilliant. Some are doofi.
Information obtained from professionals (or from anyone for that matter) who are participants in this forum should be not be relied on when making important life decisions.
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Old 04-05-2013, 08:29 AM   #53
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While I agree with jags that professional and fully-informed advice is called for, I also agree with pb4uski's retort. The source of advice and support need not be 'either / or'.

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[T]he ball game has definitely changed ... he is removed from any decision that involves a $.
Assuming that you wish to stay married - a choice that only you will be able to make - I suggest that all major financial decisions will need to be made jointly. Cutting your husband entirely out of such decisions would be no different than him cutting you out ... and you know how that has made you feel.

If upon due reflection you feel that you are no longer able to accept your husband as an equal partner, IMO you'd be better off divorcing rather than switching to a pretend marriage in which you and he assume the role of parent and child, respectively.

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I will be going back to work
That makes sense, regardless of how this relationship crisis resolves.
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Old 04-05-2013, 09:17 AM   #54
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Really? An internet " friend" she's known all of 45 posts and one who does not know her or her dear husband from a bar of soap.
Let's not get a disproportionate sense of one's own importance here.
OP's been through he'll in the last few days/weeks/months. The last thing she needs is an Internet Dr.Phil /Oprah giving relationship advice
I guess that we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. Any advice offered on this forum would have attributes of your posts - we're all adults and realize that awe need to take any and all advice with a grain of salt and make our own decisions.
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Movie Recommendation
Old 04-05-2013, 09:17 AM   #55
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Movie Recommendation

Lost in America (1985)
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Old 04-05-2013, 09:24 AM   #56
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Sassy...

A couple of suggestions.... take a look at the detail pages of cap gains on your tax return... this should have all the info to let you know if all losses were reported.... if you do not see the $600K in losses, something is up... have him get you the old stmts so you can see if you can do amended returns to get the losses recognized.... you only have days left for 2009 unless you extended... do not listen to "I can not get them".... all brokers will have them and you can get them....


I think you said you would, but make sure that there is not some money he is trying to hide... I am not saying this is the case, but I have heard of a spouse hiding money in anticipation of a divorce.... you are talking about $600K.... so it is not a small sum... if you do see the amount on the tax returns, then he might not be.... but if there is nothing... I would be suspicious...

I would also put him on a strict budget right now... no spending for anything until you get your finances under control, meaning you know WHAT you have and WHERE it is located...

Do take the advice of counseling.... you will get advice from all your friends and relatives about what to do... and they will be swayed by if they like him or not... if they did not like him, they will tell you you need to leave him... however, you are the one that needs to make this decision based on what you can live with and what you cannot.... but now is not the time to make it... you are going through the stages... and it does take time...
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Old 04-05-2013, 09:26 AM   #57
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Wow, this was a fast moving thread, like a movie!

Did you really lose $600k of money you had put into the nonretirement account or was that the paper value at the peak (the loss might be more palatable if you consider only the real dollars that went into it).

Oddly perhaps, I suggest your DH have an account of his own from this point forward of maybe 5 percent of the total that he can invest or lose however he likes, once things shake out. I don't get much of an "our" vibe from the OP, to be honest, and I sort of feel sorry for the guy. There's not a lot of "we" in this very fast decision-making, for example:

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Well, he finally fessed up tonight. Turns out he lost everything in the 2008 crash because he was highly leveraged. He had dabbled with that a bit in his 20s then we agreed jointly that it wasn't good to do anymore, but he started back up. So, I guess you can see he's a bit like a gambler with an addiction. Anyway, he's been hiding it for 5 years, making up numbers, telling me lies, hoping to make it back. So, yes, I'm out probably about $600K and 15 years of squirreling away and living below my means, not to mention all the emotional crap that now comes with this. Fortunately, we had been putting things in cash for the last 5 years, so that is saved along with the retirement accounts. Things are not absolutely dire, but the ball game has definitely changed.

Here is my immediate plan:
1. He is to get a list of accounts/passwords everything with a $$amount on it to me and sit down with me and go through it so we know exactly where we stand.
2. Passwords will be changed and he is removed from any decision that involves a $.
3. I'm heading to my parents for advice on future investments and where I should be.

If you have anything to add for advice I should be doing for right now or down the road, throw it my way.

I will be going back to work but I need to figure out what to do. Being out of the workforce for 10 years and an English degree really aren't strengths. Really kicking myself on that liberal arts degree right now. Probably time for a new career, so I should add career counseling discussions to the list.

Thanks for all the input. You will probably be hearing more from me as I navigate this path with plenty of questions.
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Old 04-05-2013, 09:56 AM   #58
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Sassy...

A couple of suggestions.... take a look at the detail pages of cap gains on your tax return... this should have all the info to let you know if all losses were reported.... if you do not see the $600K in losses, something is up... have him get you the old stmts so you can see if you can do amended returns to get the losses recognized.... you only have days left for 2009 unless you extended... do not listen to "I can not get them".... all brokers will have them and you can get them....

+1

If you have access to your 2011 Federal Tax return, I would do a couple of quick checks specifically as follows:

Form 1040 - Line 13 Capital gain or (loss). Should be -3,000 for every year since the losses were first recognized.


and even more importantly:

Schedule D
line 7 Net short-term capital gain or (loss). AND
line 15 Net long-term capital gain or (loss).

These should be two numbers that when combined should give a large negative number representing your total actual loss. Note that this might not be the full 600k if there was asset appreciation prior to the loss, but rather it should represent all of your contributions that were lost.

If you don't see these numbers here then that might be a warning sign that some of the other scenarios that Texas Proud alluded to might be increasingly likely.

If no Schedule D is present in the 2011 return then I would look for one in previous returns until you find a Schedule D that recognizes the loss as described above.

-gauss
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Old 04-05-2013, 10:08 AM   #59
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+1
/snip/

If no Schedule D is present in the 2011 return then I would look for one in previous returns until you find a Schedule D that recognizes the loss as described above.

-gauss
If there is not a sch D, then there is no $3K loss on the front AND no carry forward of the past losses... you cannot skip years...
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Old 04-05-2013, 10:29 AM   #60
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First off, folks, I appreciate all the comments. I've lurked on this board for years and have a pretty good judgement of who I consider level-headed and who doesn't necessarily jive with my goals/concerns. These are opinions that all of us can take and leave without any hard feelings. Don't turn this thread into a petty argument about what should/shouldn't be offered for advice. I'm completely capable of sifting through the info and taking what I need for advice and dumping the rest. So please stop the bickering and get back to helping ME.

Gauss/Texas Proud: I found the 2009 & 2010 tax returns. The -$3,000 loss is on there along with a big carry forward loss on Line 6 of Schedule D. That looks consistent and is accurate with what he told me last night when I asked him.

From what I can see, this is limited to this one taxable account. There is not a cc debt history problem and his cards are online with mine and I track them and pay the bills each month so nothing is out of sorts there. In fact, he hardly uses them. I also track the bank account and monthly expenses and he's basically kept with standard gas and maybe a few other charges here and there, but certainly not big amounts or to places that would raise red flags. So, all in all, this part seems ok, which is also in part why I trusted him with the investments.

Best Wife, the lost amount was the paper value and also the ballpark estimate of the 5 years lost in all this lying. Perhaps it would make it easier to go by the real dollar amount lost, which is still pretty significant, but seeing how I budgeted, planned, and made decisions based on the "imaginary" account, that's where I am mentally right now. I'm not ready to say "Well, it was ONLY $XXand not $XXX of that imaginary account."

Also, he is perfectly free to set up his own trading account if he wishes--though I'm entirely opposed to that, and he won't do it. He's entirely gun shy at this point and is willing to hand everything over to me to deal with. There is a lot of "our" in these decisions, it's simply not coming through on typing because I recognize that this is now my responsibility. But we've talked, are in agreement with how things need to be, and are proceeding. I still have the trust that our checking account is fine, based on his history with that, and the other accounts are. This is really boiling down to just one big stupid mistake that's changed everything and now we have to pick up the pieces and go on.

We talked this morning before he left for work and I know he is hurting, too. I know he is wondering if we are all better off if he isn't in the picture. I said no to that as I can't take anymore being sprung on me and I need stability for the kids. It's a rash idea with nothing good to come of it. I also said if he is feeling way down and having darker thoughts that he needs to get some help. I don't want him going down that road--and while I don't think he will--I told him that I can't deal with a suicidal person on top of all this. So, he needs to get his head in the game and get help if he needs it. I think he'll get his head in the game after he gets done beating himself up. The last thing I told him was, "Go on and kiss the kids goodbye (for the morning, which he does everyday before he leaves work) and make a vow to do what's right from here on out for them and this family." I need that commitment and he needs it too so that he feels he's once again moving in the right direction.
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