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Old 04-05-2013, 10:37 AM   #61
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Sassy, sounds to me like you have a good handle on things and the right attitude to move forward. Hang in there.
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Old 04-05-2013, 11:27 AM   #62
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I know someone who discovered something similar. They were able to reconcile, put it behind them, and start financial rebuilding, and a decade later, are in very good financial shape (and also have a strong relationship).

There are many who faced major setbacks and built their financial independence later in life. The proper key is attitude, and like REWahoo said, yours seems to be helping. Stay focused and good luck.
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Old 04-05-2013, 12:06 PM   #63
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Sassy...

One of the best comments I heard for someone to think about who wants to end their life...

"Suicide is a long term solution for a short term problem."


You have a short term problem that you will work out... right now nobody knows the outcome as it will play out over time... but taking drastic steps right now is not the way to go.... by you or him....
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Old 04-05-2013, 12:59 PM   #64
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I wonder if you can recall your marriage vows and how they may apply to your current life situation. From my distant viewpoint, this is about money and a husband who is obviously sick. Addiction can be a very nasty decease, whether gambling or drugs, and I for one will be there for my spouse if, or when I ever find out she has one of these type sicknesses.

Pardon me for getting philosophical, but life's just a journey. There are summers and winters (clearly this is a winter situation). But this too shall pass. From what I gather from previous posts, he is a good provider; I assume he has decent/stable employment, a good father, and outside of his sickness, a loving husband.

Whenever I'm bothered by some problem in my life, I'm inevitably reminded that it's not like I was just told one of my children has terminal cancer and only has weeks/months to live. That always puts my problems in perspective.

I'm not a counselor or anything like that, but I do subscribe to the theorem that Love is not a feeling, but rather a decision to be loving to another individual. Your husband needs your Love now more than he may ever have before. I wish all the best for you and your family and I hope nothing I've written is offensive to anyone.
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Old 04-05-2013, 01:03 PM   #65
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Your husband needs your Love now more than he may ever have before. I wish all the best for you and your family and I hope nothing I've written is offensive to anyone.
He may need love....but where was his love (and accountability) for the past five years, when Sassy needed it?

I agree with you that punishment is not the issue. Mercy would be more like it.

Accountability is good too.
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Old 04-05-2013, 01:07 PM   #66
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He may need love....but where was his love (and accountability) for the past five years, when Sassy needed it?

I agree with you that punishment is not the issue. Mercy would be more like it.

Accountability is good too.
Can't disagree Mead. He clearly fell short on his part of the bargain.
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Old 04-05-2013, 01:16 PM   #67
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Sassy, sounds to me like you have a good handle on things and the right attitude to move forward. Hang in there.
Yes, I think so too. Our mantra has always been "it's 'only' money" and fortunately for us and hopefully for the Sassy family there will be enough to offset this loss. Mr Sassy is probably relieved to have this finally in the open and the task of managing the mistake off his shoulders, so I hope the two of you can take a deep breath and move on together. Sassy, you said so many complimentary things abour Mr S early in this thread and he probably needs to hear them from you more than ever as he is still that person.

I pointed out the paper and projected vs the actual value of what went into the account just for perspective, not that you should feel better about it (but it would make me feel a little better, honestly--nobody's paper gains have been guaranteed in the volatile climate of the past five years).

I know many here might agree that while this is hard on you and a shock, it is not near the top ten of the worst things that could happen. Hang in there.
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Old 04-05-2013, 02:09 PM   #68
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Ok, so we can agree that OP's husband committed "financial adultery", but is that the same as REAL adultery? Some on here are like sharks circling. If Sassy's husband would have continued to lie about the finances, etc, it would be another matter.

He has come clean and told her everything. Maybe he was embarassed about it, and thought the market would bail him out, I am not sure. But Sassy says he is a good husband and a good provider. I am not sure divorce will solve all her problems, he seems open to getting counseling as there is still an underlying lack of trust issue, as it seems.

I for one am not going to judge, as I have not walked a mile in Sassy or her husbands shoes........
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Old 04-05-2013, 02:45 PM   #69
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I saw tax returns and they had minimum losses (around $3,000). He says there's a certain amount you can deduct each year that we have a huge tax loss to carry forward. I had the tax accountant do taxes for 4 of those years because we were overseas, but he did them this year. And now that brings up another realization--that's another thing I need to take control over and remove from him. F&&ck anyway. Sorry.

And, yes, I am in shock, which explains why I'm so calm. I'll probably blow up in a couple of days when the magnitude of this hits home. I assume this is a bit like grieving a death and there are 5 or so stages to go through.

I don't have an answer for the marriage because mentally I'm just not ready to think about it. My first priority is my kids and getting on my feet so I'm independent. Can we stay married? Perhaps, I'm sure others have gone through worse and survived. Will we? I really don't know. I can't imagine breaking up the family, but I can't live like this either. I realize the ball is entirely in my court. He's said he'll do whatever I want, including granting a divorce and alimony or stay together for the sake of the kids w/o the "marriage" bit or marriage counseling. I don't know. I'm just not at any stage to discuss it yet and would rather plug the holes in the ship before I look at +/- of selling it off or keeping it.

All I know is that a lot of tears have been shed tonight from both of us and we will probably have more days like this. He has been willing to answer my questions--it's a matter of whether or not I believe him and is this over yet?? Or will I be blindsided with something else I have that feeling where I don't know if I'm going to get hit with a bat again or if it's over.

And we are far from the hugging stage, pb4uski, and I'm not thanking him for his courage. I feel that I've been pretty fair and civilized so far--though that may change as this sinks in more--I haven't verbally beaten him up but I have made my feelings/fears/concerns clear. And there has been a lot of why? how could you let it go this far? etc? etc? He is doing a good job beating himself up. He told me one of the things he considered to get out of it was buying a big insurance policy and killing himself. I don't know how much thought he gave to that or if it was a go-easy-on-me ploy. I told him 1. that wouldn't work because insurance companies have timeframes from issuance to death and it would invalidate it and 2. Don't even think about leaving me with more emotional $hit and baggage for two young kids to carry their entire lives. Maybe my response comes off harsh, but that's where I was at the moment. I think he is over that hurdle and has realized he wants to be here to see the kids grow up.

My god, how a day changes a life. Wish these were somebody else's shoes I was wearing.
I have been with my husband for 27 years and like you have young children. Not telling you what to do but I would not divorce an otherwise good man over this. People make mistake and those of us who've lived long enough know that something unpleasant is bound to happen but there's redemption, survival and forgiveness. Sometimes marriage get even stronger after something like this happens. Don't take his threat of suicide lightly. He feels bad and knows he's let down his family. Both of you need support right now. I wouldn't push him too hard; believe me, he feels bad enough especially considering that's he's been an upstanding husband except for this.
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Old 04-05-2013, 03:01 PM   #70
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Sassy,

Would you feel better if your husband took the $600k and started a business and it went belly-up? I know this is somewhat different but you are still young and this is a temporary set back. You and your husband can definitely come back from this.
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Old 04-05-2013, 03:02 PM   #71
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i have been with my husband for 27 years and like you have young children. Not telling you what to do but i would not divorce an otherwise good man over this. People make mistake and those of us who've lived long enough know that something unpleasant is bound to happen but there's redemption, survival and forgiveness. Sometimes marriage get even stronger after something like this happens. Don't take his threat of suicide lightly. He feels bad and knows he's let down his family. Both of you need support right now. I wouldn't push him too hard; believe me, he feels bad enough especially considering that's he's been an upstanding husband except for this.
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Old 04-05-2013, 04:02 PM   #72
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Ok, so we can agree that OP's husband committed "financial adultery", but is that the same as REAL adultery? Some on here are like sharks circling. If Sassy's husband would have continued to lie about the finances, etc, it would be another matter.

He has come clean and told her everything. Maybe he was embarassed about it, and thought the market would bail him out, I am not sure. But Sassy says he is a good husband and a good provider. I am not sure divorce will solve all her problems, he seems open to getting counseling as there is still an underlying lack of trust issue, as it seems.

I for one am not going to judge, as I have not walked a mile in Sassy or her husbands shoes........

I agree on your post in part... but disagree on part...

How could he think that the market would bail him out if he lost everything He had nothing left to grow... also, you would think that Ms. Sassy would wonder why they could not retire if she sees the market going up and she does a back of the envelope calc and think they have $1.5 mill or more... and he maybe had brought things back to $250K.... (still, if everything is gone I do not see how he could even do this)...


I also think there is a difference in something bad happening and spouse fessing up to it in a reasonable time and a spouse hiding it for 5 years... and only fessing up when pushed to prove a point... remember, she said that he kept telling her things were OK and that she just did not understand.... kind of putting her down IMO (she might feel different)...

I do agree that if everything else were going great... and Ms Sassy can let it go over time... it probably is not a deal breaker... but many people get divorced when one of them ruins the finances of both of them... say one is running a business and goes into BK... taking the other in for the ride...
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Old 04-05-2013, 04:24 PM   #73
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Sounds like you received the horrors of the market collapse in just a few days. That had to be shocking. Using leverage was a mistake on the way down but could have been tremendous on the way up. Either way, not prudent in my opinion. Try for a moment to put yourself in his shoes during the collapse that took many months and the mental turmoil that he shouldered by himself. You were unaware, meaning he didn't let the stress effect his relationship with you or your children. You should kiss the poor bastard. After taking control of the finances, of course.
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Old 04-05-2013, 04:32 PM   #74
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I apologize for coming across as judgmental, but this really shocked me. Sassy, I hope you can get the ship back on course financially and personally. You will have to be the leader and CEO of your family from now on.

I am truly glad to be single......
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Old 04-05-2013, 04:41 PM   #75
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Letj,

I understand what you're saying about the relationship. Yes, I'm looking at this quite differently than I would have if I was in my 20s and a DINK. But now I have little lives to think about as well as reflecting on our married years together, what I want, and where I want to be in the future, and who's in it with me. I always reminded myself during the typical rough patches in the marriage that in the end I wanted him sitting next to me at our daughter's wedding and we worked things out. But, you know, right now I'm just really tired of that reminder.

Texas Proud,
You are quite right. The idea of recouping losses was just absurd and irrational. I just can not comprehend how he thinks he was going to do that. And, yes, fessing up earlier would have been much easier. I factored in our "imaginary" account in many things based on our supposedly financial health...most significantly our house purchased last year and vehicles during those 5 years. And simply put, had I known all this back then, I would have cut back on some budget things so that we could re-establish and get our feet under us quicker. I just can't believe he played along in so many major decisions we had to make and acted like nothing was wrong. I simply can not wrap my head around it.

And for those who say it's only money. It's not. It's the emotions that go with it, the sacrifices made for it, the dream possibilities, the flexibility it offers, the opportunities it creates, the worse-case fears of having something wiped out, and a multitude of other emotions. I've never believed in the "it's only money" saying. It is so much more than a piece of printed paper.

Gator, I was there during it, standing by him and asking how things were. I was told everything went down but we were ok. Keep in mind, over the course of this, he also showed me comparisons of us v. stock funds, net worth, % increases, etc. I just never saw the actual online account, but I always had numbers in front of me and graphs, etc. It's like I had my own personal Bernie Madoff, with the exception that he didn't run off with everything and it's hidden safely away somewhere.
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Old 04-05-2013, 05:00 PM   #76
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Letj,

I understand what you're saying about the relationship. Yes, I'm looking at this quite differently than I would have if I was in my 20s and a DINK. But now I have little lives to think about as well as reflecting on our married years together, what I want, and where I want to be in the future, and who's in it with me. I always reminded myself during the typical rough patches in the marriage that in the end I wanted him sitting next to me at our daughter's wedding and we worked things out. But, you know, right now I'm just really tired of that reminder.

Texas Proud,
You are quite right. The idea of recouping losses was just absurd and irrational. I just can not comprehend how he thinks he was going to do that. And, yes, fessing up earlier would have been much easier. I factored in our "imaginary" account in many things based on our supposedly financial health...most significantly our house purchased last year and vehicles during those 5 years. And simply put, had I known all this back then, I would have cut back on some budget things so that we could re-establish and get our feet under us quicker. I just can't believe he played along in so many major decisions we had to make and acted like nothing was wrong. I simply can not wrap my head around it.

And for those who say it's only money. It's not. It's the emotions that go with it, the sacrifices made for it, the dream possibilities, the flexibility it offers, the opportunities it creates, the worse-case fears of having something wiped out, and a multitude of other emotions. I've never believed in the "it's only money" saying. It is so much more than a piece of printed paper.

Gator, I was there during it, standing by him and asking how things were. I was told everything went down but we were ok. Keep in mind, over the course of this, he also showed me comparisons of us v. stock funds, net worth, % increases, etc. I just never saw the actual online account, but I always had numbers in front of me and graphs, etc. It's like I had my own personal Bernie Madoff, with the exception that he didn't run off with everything and it's hidden safely away somewhere.
I can understand the loss of trust that you must feel. I can't offer advice on what you should do in the future but from your description of your husband he seems like a decent person. Can you forgive? I lost about 4 million on paper between real estate and stocks. It was a bad time. What helped me was making a list of all my assets and calculating my new net worth. Then I made a goal and calculated my distance to goal. Thus I focused on the positive and never once dwelled on the losses. It took me 8 years to reach my goal and I recently retired. You can do it also. Just don't dwell. It's a killer.
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Old 04-05-2013, 05:09 PM   #77
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For me, this isn't primarily about the fact that the money was lost. Bad investments happen. However, I think I would have 2 big issues with this:

1. The lying for years about the financial condition. Making a bad investment and losing everything is one thing. Anyone can make a mistake. I could possibly contemplate understanding the person not volunteering that all had been lost - at least for a short period. But - to go years with actively lying about the money and saying the money was there when it wasn't - would be a likely dealbreaker for me. That would destroy my trust - and rightly so - in my spouse and I can't imagine ever being able to regain that trust. And, if it was me, I would find it very difficult to stay married to someone I didn't trust. Of course, it isn't me. So I fully understand that Sassy may feel differently and knows far more about her situation than I do.

2. Using margin when there is an agreement not to do so would make me wary about a possible gambling type problem. I'm not saying the OP's husband is out there playing poker or the slots or whatever. Rather, the margin may have functionally served as an outlet for a need to gamble. I'm not saying that kind of problem can't be overcome, but it is a possibility I would be thinking about. If there are no more investments for him to manage to meet this need, would he try to find some other way to meet it? Again, may not be an issue, but I would keep my eyes open to watch for anything.
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Old 04-05-2013, 06:10 PM   #78
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Has anyone considered that maybe this poor guy was afraid to tell his wife for fear of losing his family or her blowing up at him? If her husband happen to be a shy retreating sort of person, admitting something like this could be really intimidating. At the end of day, he made a mistake and we all make mistakes, some big, some small. Family, love, understanding, commitment and a good person by your side is far more valuable than money. If I lost everything and I still had my family, I would still be happy. Money is lost everyday; businesses fail, bad investments in the stock market, lawsuits, etc.
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Old 04-05-2013, 06:21 PM   #79
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Has anyone considered that maybe this poor guy was afraid to tell his wife for fear of losing his family or her blowing up at him? If her husband happen to be a shy retreating sort of person, admitting something like this could be really intimidating. At the end of day, he made a mistake and we all make mistakes, some big, some small. Family, love, understanding, commitment and a good person by your side is far more valuable than money. If I lost everything and I still had my family, I would still be happy. Money is lost everyday; businesses fail, bad investments in the stock market, lawsuits, etc.
For five years? Give me a break......
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Old 04-05-2013, 06:38 PM   #80
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Sassy,

Really impressed by the clear-headed way that you are handling this. This is an incredibly shocking blow, but you seem to have your head on absolutely straight and I have the sense that with you at the financial helm your ship will be back on track in no time.

Smart to go back to work as soon as possible. My kids are also 8 and 11, and while I have worked throughout their childhood (help is relatively inexpensive here in China, which made it pretty much a no-brainer), my feeling is that this is a great time for a SAHM/D to go back to work. Don't underestimate your earning/career potential, either. I have a feeling you would be a real asset to a lot of different employers. And if you can keep living on what DH has been bringing home (or less, if you both can agree to cut back) and sock most of your salary into savings, you will build the financial foundation back up really quickly.

take care and let us know how it goes!
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