Newbie needing advice

[Gatordoc50]

Letj,

I understand what you're saying about the relationship. Yes, I'm looking at this quite differently than I would have if I was in my 20s and a DINK. But now I have little lives to think about as well as reflecting on our married years together, what I want, and where I want to be in the future, and who's in it with me. I always reminded myself during the typical rough patches in the marriage that in the end I wanted him sitting next to me at our daughter's wedding and we worked things out. But, you know, right now I'm just really tired of that reminder.

Texas Proud,
You are quite right. The idea of recouping losses was just absurd and irrational. I just can not comprehend how he thinks he was going to do that. And, yes, fessing up earlier would have been much easier. I factored in our "imaginary" account in many things based on our supposedly financial health...most significantly our house purchased last year and vehicles during those 5 years. And simply put, had I known all this back then, I would have cut back on some budget things so that we could re-establish and get our feet under us quicker. I just can't believe he played along in so many major decisions we had to make and acted like nothing was wrong. I simply can not wrap my head around it.

And for those who say it's only money. It's not. It's the emotions that go with it, the sacrifices made for it, the dream possibilities, the flexibility it offers, the opportunities it creates, the worse-case fears of having something wiped out, and a multitude of other emotions. I've never believed in the "it's only money" saying. It is so much more than a piece of printed paper.

Gator, I was there during it, standing by him and asking how things were. I was told everything went down but we were ok. Keep in mind, over the course of this, he also showed me comparisons of us v. stock funds, net worth, % increases, etc. I just never saw the actual online account, but I always had numbers in front of me and graphs, etc. It's like I had my own personal Bernie Madoff, with the exception that he didn't run off with everything and it's hidden safely away somewhere.

I can understand the loss of trust that you must feel. I can't offer advice on what you should do in the future but from your description of your husband he seems like a decent person. Can you forgive? I lost about 4 million on paper between real estate and stocks. It was a bad time. What helped me was making a list of all my assets and calculating my new net worth. Then I made a goal and calculated my distance to goal. Thus I focused on the positive and never once dwelled on the losses. It took me 8 years to reach my goal and I recently retired. You can do it also. Just don't dwell. It's a killer.

 

[Katsmeow]

For me, this isn't primarily about the fact that the money was lost. Bad investments happen. However, I think I would have 2 big issues with this:

1. The lying for years about the financial condition. Making a bad investment and losing everything is one thing. Anyone can make a mistake. I could possibly contemplate understanding the person not volunteering that all had been lost - at least for a short period. But - to go years with actively lying about the money and saying the money was there when it wasn't - would be a likely dealbreaker for me. That would destroy my trust - and rightly so - in my spouse and I can't imagine ever being able to regain that trust. And, if it was me, I would find it very difficult to stay married to someone I didn't trust. Of course, it isn't me. So I fully understand that Sassy may feel differently and knows far more about her situation than I do.

2. Using margin when there is an agreement not to do so would make me wary about a possible gambling type problem. I'm not saying the OP's husband is out there playing poker or the slots or whatever. Rather, the margin may have functionally served as an outlet for a need to gamble. I'm not saying that kind of problem can't be overcome, but it is a possibility I would be thinking about. If there are no more investments for him to manage to meet this need, would he try to find some other way to meet it? Again, may not be an issue, but I would keep my eyes open to watch for anything.

 

[Letj]

Has anyone considered that maybe this poor guy was afraid to tell his wife for fear of losing his family or her blowing up at him? If her husband happen to be a shy retreating sort of person, admitting something like this could be really intimidating. At the end of day, he made a mistake and we all make mistakes, some big, some small. Family, love, understanding, commitment and a good person by your side is far more valuable than money. If I lost everything and I still had my family, I would still be happy. Money is lost everyday; businesses fail, bad investments in the stock market, lawsuits, etc.

 

[Meadbh]

Has anyone considered that maybe this poor guy was afraid to tell his wife for fear of losing his family or her blowing up at him? If her husband happen to be a shy retreating sort of person, admitting something like this could be really intimidating. At the end of day, he made a mistake and we all make mistakes, some big, some small. Family, love, understanding, commitment and a good person by your side is far more valuable than money. If I lost everything and I still had my family, I would still be happy. Money is lost everyday; businesses fail, bad investments in the stock market, lawsuits, etc.

For five years? Give me a break......

 

[lhamo]

Sassy,

Really impressed by the clear-headed way that you are handling this. This is an incredibly shocking blow, but you seem to have your head on absolutely straight and I have the sense that with you at the financial helm your ship will be back on track in no time.

Smart to go back to work as soon as possible. My kids are also 8 and 11, and while I have worked throughout their childhood (help is relatively inexpensive here in China, which made it pretty much a no-brainer), my feeling is that this is a great time for a SAHM/D to go back to work. Don't underestimate your earning/career potential, either. I have a feeling you would be a real asset to a lot of different employers. And if you can keep living on what DH has been bringing home (or less, if you both can agree to cut back) and sock most of your salary into savings, you will build the financial foundation back up really quickly.

take care and let us know how it goes!

 

[Katsmeow]

Has anyone considered that maybe this poor guy was afraid to tell his wife for fear of losing his family or her blowing up at him? If her husband happen to be a shy retreating sort of person, admitting something like this could be really intimidating. At the end of day, he made a mistake and we all make mistakes, some big, some small. Family, love, understanding, commitment and a good person by your side is far more valuable than money. If I lost everything and I still had my family, I would still be happy. Money is lost everyday; businesses fail, bad investments in the stock market, lawsuits, etc.

Of course I've considered and from what she has said I would not be surprised to find out that he lied out of fear of consequences. In fact, that is the reason that a lot of people lie.

But - that isn't the issue. If it was my husband I could maybe understand that he lied out of fear - but I still might feel that I didn't want to be married to him any more. He lied to her - actually lied to her flat out - for years. If it was my husband, I would want him at some point to get past that fear enough to consider the best interests of the family as a whole and to fess up. I mean if she hadn't of pushed he might never have told her. It might one thing to lie about something that has no future consequences. But, here, he lied about something that has ongoing consequences. That is, he lied about how much money they have. To me - I would see this as my husband thinking his comfort - that is, his not having to take the consequences of telling the truth - was more important than my needs or the needs of the entire family. His comfort would be built entirely on hurting me on an ongoing basis. I can understand and get past the bad investment decision. I could perhaps even forgive the lying. But me? I wouldn't want to be married to that person. I want my spouse to be an adult who is concerned about my well being and that of our children and who can overcome personal fear to do what is right for the family.

 

[Letj]

@Katsmeow - I don't think we can make the judgment that he did not care enough for the family to come clean. While recognizing that Sassy is the real victims here, she is not entirely blameless. She knew in her gut that something was not right over the years. She's admitted that she never actually saw they statement. I am involved in every financial decision in my family and I can't see how I would take my husband at his word for all these years. I would want to see all statements and review my tax returns before signing them. If I saw a big loss, that would be a red flag. Sounds like the financial responsibility was completely surrendered to the husband; something that should never have been done considering that they are both fairly educated.

 

[Katsmeow]

I don't think we can make the judgment that he did not care enough for the family to come clean. While recognizing that Sassy is the real victims here, she is not entirely blameless. She knew in her gut that something was not right over the years. She's admitted that she never actually saw they statement. I am involved in every financial decision in my family and I can't see how I would take my husband at his word for all these years. I would want to see all statements and review my tax returns before signing them. If I saw a big loss, that would be a red flag. Sounds like the financial responsibility was completely surrendered to the husband; something that should never have been done considering that they are both fairly educated.

The determination on his motivations and how he feels is not for me to decide. I just know how I would feel if it was my husband. Words of caring are cheap. What I want is a husband who is an adult and is an equal partner to me and who puts the interests of the family as a whole first. I would find someone lying to me for years to not be conducive to what I want in a marriage.

I also don't buy into blame the victim. I'm sure that Sassy wishes she had done some things differently. She trusted him and believed him. That is no where near as culpable as the person who actually did the lying. It is sort of like saying someone who financially defrauds someone gets a free pass because the victim should have discovered the fraud. Suffice it to say, I don't agree.

 

[Texas Proud]

For me, this isn't primarily about the fact that the money was lost. Bad investments happen. However, I think I would have 2 big issues with this:

1. The lying for years about the financial condition. Making a bad investment and losing everything is one thing. Anyone can make a mistake. I could possibly contemplate understanding the person not volunteering that all had been lost - at least for a short period. But - to go years with actively lying about the money and saying the money was there when it wasn't - would be a likely dealbreaker for me. That would destroy my trust - and rightly so - in my spouse and I can't imagine ever being able to regain that trust. And, if it was me, I would find it very difficult to stay married to someone I didn't trust. Of course, it isn't me. So I fully understand that Sassy may feel differently and knows far more about her situation than I do.

2. Using margin when there is an agreement not to do so would make me wary about a possible gambling type problem. I'm not saying the OP's husband is out there playing poker or the slots or whatever. Rather, the margin may have functionally served as an outlet for a need to gamble. I'm not saying that kind of problem can't be overcome, but it is a possibility I would be thinking about. If there are no more investments for him to manage to meet this need, would he try to find some other way to meet it? Again, may not be an issue, but I would keep my eyes open to watch for anything.

One of the things that Sassy could do is to take a look at the trading activity of her DH... take a look and see what he was investing in and how often he was trading... did he diversify any, or did he keep reaching for the new biotech company....

If he were trading all the time.... doing the small cap stocks looking to make it big... I would agree he has a gambling problem.... if he had invested in big names like GM, Citi, AIG etc. etc. he would have still lost big time with margin, but it is not the same as gambling....

Just saying that what he did and how he did it would shine a light on a possible problem or not...

 

[Texas Proud]

@Katsmeow - I don't think we can make the judgment that he did not care enough for the family to come clean. While recognizing that Sassy is the real victims here, she is not entirely blameless. She knew in her gut that something was not right over the years. She's admitted that she never actually saw they statement. I am involved in every financial decision in my family and I can't see how I would take my husband at his word for all these years. I would want to see all statements and review my tax returns before signing them. If I saw a big loss, that would be a red flag. Sounds like the financial responsibility was completely surrendered to the husband; something that should never have been done considering that they are both fairly educated.

The determination on his motivations and how he feels is not for me to decide. I just know how I would feel if it was my husband. Words of caring are cheap. What I want is a husband who is an adult and is an equal partner to me and who puts the interests of the family as a whole first. I would find someone lying to me for years to not be conducive to what I want in a marriage.

I also don't buy into blame the victim. I'm sure that Sassy wishes she had done some things differently. She trusted him and believed him. That is no where near as culpable as the person who actually did the lying. It is sort of like saying someone who financially defrauds someone gets a free pass because the victim should have discovered the fraud. Suffice it to say, I don't agree.

Letj,

I kind of agree with Katsmeow.... she had asked... he presented her with paper and graphs showing what they had (or so she thought)... this is not like a company where you should have checks and balances... where you need an auditor to check your spouse... if your spouse is not looking out for your best interest when they do anything.... I am like Katsmeow and would not want them as a spouse...

I do agree with you that maybe she could have found out sooner... like I said, taking a look at the tax return would have been a good start... but there are many spouses that just do not want to do that... my spouse is one of them.... I just filed our return and she did not even look at it... because she TRUSTS me to do the right thing.. I will never do anything to make her not trust me... just like she does not do anything to make me not trust her....

 

[UserRequested]

He he he. I said my piece on this earlier. Now I just find it hilarious to read all the "well intentioned" posts offering advice and "I know what I would do if I were in Sassy's shoes" comments.

 

[Sassy]

First off, we sat down this weekend and took a look at everything and changed passwords so that I only have them. It does not appear that any day trading is going on. Looks like what happened is he saw the market was going for a crash around the 2008 time frame and, thinking he'd be a really great father and husband to make out like a bandit, bet on our gold holdings, expecting the market to crash and gold to go up. Would have been a nice scene except gold didn't cooperate and headed south along with everything else, which he clearly didn't anticipate. When he saw what was happening he closed the order down, but since it moved so fast it took everything out with it. So that's the story. Refill the popcorn.

Now Letj,....I completely agree with you that I, too, hold some responsibility in this. When we were DINKS we were 50/50 partners in investing and both of us knew exactly what was going on. As time went by, lives picked up speed, and kids came into the picture, I stepped back from it. I did this for two reasons: 1. Things were going smoothly, he was doing fine with research and choices, and I had no reason not to trust him. 2. It turns out that I, like many other people, can't stomach the downs of the market, so we decided that instead of dealing with me in a tizzy every time the market went down, that I probably shouldn't follow it so closely. Never was a problem in 6 or 8 years before this went down. Obviously, at some point in all the 2008 drama, I should have sucked it up and demanded to see records much early, but I tell you that when I was getting information from him on it, I believed that information was true. And I did skim tax returns--not every page and not thoroughly, but what I thought was satisfactory since I trusted him. I vaguely remember the -$3,000, but that wasn't a big amount to send alarm bells off. I can't tell you about the schedule d as I don't remember, so let's just assume that either I didn't see it or I'm just a big dumb idiot (don't answer that). I'm going to assume that when your husband tells you he's going to the store, work, gym, friend's house, on a walk, to the lake or whatever, that you don't get in the car and follow him to make sure he's telling the truth. I'm going to guess that you believe him. Also, there have been two people in this household that have been kicking themselves pretty good for the past 5 years and 4 days and I'm tired of it. Finger-pointing and Monday-morning quarterbacking won't do me any good and it's time to move on.

Thanks to everyone for all of your encouragement, support, suggestions, and tidbits. I'm sure I'll be hopping back on to post more questions as I navigate these waters. It's funny because he was the one who always knew more, researched more, and, simply put, has an insanely higher IQ than me, so I guess I had a bit of an inferiority complex going. But you know what? The little light bulb in my head turned on and I'm realizing that I know a lot more than I give myself credit for. I was driving home from my parents yesterday, after unloading this whole story on them, and I thought, "I can do this." It might be baby steps all the way but I can get to the other side of that mountain. And that's what we're doing. Giddy up.

 

[Texas Proud]

Well Sassy.... looks like you are coming out on the other end of this in a good place...

It also looks like in the end you will forgive him.... time will tell on this...


Start with simpler investments... either a target date fund or some broad index funds... do not try and pick stocks... it is a losing proposition for most people... let time and savings work for you...


Good luck

 

[UserRequested]

Looks like what happened is he saw the market was going for a crash around the 2008 time frame and, thinking he'd be a really great father and husband to make out like a bandit, bet on our gold holdings, expecting the market to crash and gold to go up. Would have been a nice scene except gold didn't cooperate and headed south along with everything else, which he clearly didn't anticipate. When he saw what was happening he closed the order down, but since it moved so fast it took everything out with it. So that's the story. Refill the popcorn.

Can you explain what you mean by "..bet on your gold holdings". You owned gold, he expected the prices to rise, but they moved up and down a bit, generally down. What did he do ? Sell the gold, use it as collateral to buy more

Daily Gold prices 2008

$858.85
$855.00
$859.25
$873.50
$877.00
$884.25
$891.00
$902.00
$913.00
$889.75
$888.25
$882.00
$871.25
$875.00
$888.25
$909.25
$918.25
$921.75
$924.50
$919.00
$923.25
$914.75
$893.75
$887.50
$903.00
$899.75
$916.25
$918.00
$917.00
$899.00
$906.00
$912.50
$903.25
$924.00
$920.00
$945.00
$943.00
$937.75
$937.00
$959.50
$959.75
$971.50
$988.50
$984.75
$974.50
$976.50
$972.50
$969.25
$970.00
$975.50
$995.00
$1003.50
$1011.25
$1006.75
$958.50
$925.75
$926.75
$946.75
$946.75
$934.25
$933.50
$887.75
$890.00
$896.50
$905.50
$926.50
$915.00
$917.00
$928.00
$927.75
$926.50
$929.75
$945.00
$946.00
$908.75
$918.50
$918.00
$898.50
$895.50
$891.50
$890.50
$880.00
$871.00
$853.00
$853.50
$880.00
$868.25
$877.00
$876.00
$883.50
$865.00
$866.50
$881.25
$897.00
$906.50
$914.50
$923.00
$922.75
$927.50
$906.75
$902.50
$883.00
$885.75
$888.25
$879.25
$883.50
$878.75
$890.50
$896.25
$878.00
$876.25
$862.25
$866.00
$888.25
$881.50
$887.50
$903.00
$907.50
$881.00
$889.50
$882.75
$909.50
$919.50
$930.25
$937.50
$935.25
$934.00
$931.25
$916.75
$921.00
$927.25
$939.50
$962.75
$968.00
$986.00
$977.50
$965.50
$959.75
$960.50
$961.50
$926.50
$928.00
$920.50
$923.50
$916.75
$897.50
$918.00
$912.50
$905.75
$882.00
$879.50
$871.50
$852.50
$852.50
$817.75
$818.50
$818.00
$786.50
$796.25
$788.75
$815.75
$833.50
$824.00
$827.00
$827.00
$838.25
$833.00
$822.25
$798.50
$803.50
$805.75
$808.50
$808.00
$781.75
$775.75
$740.75
$750.25
$775.00
$779.50
$813.00
$863.00
$869.00
$889.00
$899.00
$896.00
$888.50
$902.00
$905.00
$884.50
$880.00
$852.00
$828.00
$875.50
$876.75
$903.50
$883.50
$900.50
$831.50
$832.50
$847.00
$802.50
$784.50
$795.00
$772.00
$744.00
$720.00
$712.50
$730.50
$730.50
$764.00
$755.25
$730.75
$729.50
$741.25
$753.75
$754.50
$735.25
$753.00
$733.75
$724.75
$713.50
$747.50
$734.00
$738.00
$762.00
$738.00
$774.50
$822.50
$820.50
$812.50
$814.00
$814.50
$778.00
$780.00
$766.25
$773.25
$749.00
$767.25
$767.75
$802.25
$827.75
$826.50
$826.00
$838.25
$870.00
$855.25
$835.75
$849.00
$843.50
$880.25
$869.75

 

[Sassy]

I am probably going to muck up the lingo, so bare with me.... He put a call option in for gold to go up (then it went down). I don't believe he borrowed more on margin than what we had. I think the call option ended up being worthless and things slid downhill fast before he could close the contract out, so by the time he did, there was basically nothing left. Thet's probably a pretty sloppy explanation for those of you who understand more about calls/puts/options/etc, but it's the basic jist of it.

More in a bit. I have to get the kids to school.

 

[FinanceDude]

This thread is a little strange. A number of woman posters here are quite adamant that Sassy should throw her husband out on his ear because they view him as a pathological liar or a financial adulterer. I guess as a man and father and a husband I have a different persepctive:

I think Sassy is a very good person with a big heart. She obviously loves her husband and wants this to keep working. However, she can't nor should she ignore the fact her husband put her family in financial jeopardy.

It is quite easy for some on here to pontificate and armchair quarterback this situation. However, I have personally seen several situations much worse than this. The fact Sassy and her husband are young enough to recover from this is huge. If this has happened going into retirement (which I have seen happen a few times), this would have been much more disastrous. As it is, it is a bad situation.

Everybody is an expert on the Internet..........

 

[MichaelB]

I am probably going to muck up the lingo, so bare with me.... He put a call option in for gold to go up (then it went down). I don't believe he borrowed more on margin than what we had. I think the call option ended up being worthless and things slid downhill fast before he could close the contract out, so by the time he did, there was basically nothing left. Thet's probably a pretty sloppy explanation for those of you who understand more about calls/puts/options/etc, but it's the basic jist of it.

More in a bit. I have to get the kids to school.

I think you've explained well enough so far. What specific trade caused the loss isn't really the issue, and you seem to be working your way out.

 

[FinanceDude]

Seems to me what specific trade caused the loss isn't really the issue.

No, the issue is communication and financial transparency, mixed in with a trust issue.

Quite honestly, some of the brightest people I know are a mess financially. They make terrible decisions because in most other parts of their life, they use logic and high intellect and it serves them well. When it comes to their money they make emotional decisions and they get burned.

Sassy hinted that her husband has a very high IQ. So I am less surprised at what happened than most on here.........

 

[Sassy]

Ok. So, my informal therapy session here.....

I found the Gamblers Anon site and it had a list of 20 questions to answer. Answering 7 with a "yes" indicating a problem. I hit 8 for him. When I sent it on to him, he answered "yes" to 11. It's kind of hard to think that he has this sort of problem--it's only been an issue twice in 20 years, this last one, obviously a BIG issue. So, he wrap our heads around him being triggered like this, is a bit of an oddity. Also, there's the fact that if he had been correct on this, I would have gone, "Yay, but don't ever do anything like that again." Guess that's a very fine line with this stuff.

He says it's not the same as a gambler going into a casino and he is pretty confident he can stay away from it. However, I told him that no, he will be contacting GA and discussing it with someone. There's no downside to it and if it gives him some tools to work with, all the better. He admitted to me that he has a pretty high tolerance for risky things (which, I have next to zero), so I think this merits the exploration.

Now, the action itself I can probably forgive. I understand the why behind it and it was an incredibly stupid mistake that can't be undone. I'm even calming down about the 5-year lying bit, though don't get me wrong, it won't be forgotten anytime soon. But the main problem I'm having is just how much jeopardy he could have put us in by continuing this lie. He wanted a land investment last 2 years ago, which we could have swung, but it's land and iff. So, we discussed the potential for getting caught in a downturn and if we had enough back up cash to weather a few years of bad returns. Now, with our imaginary account, we did, but in reality, we didn't. I can't for the life of me figure out how he thought that was ok. We ended up passing on it, but just the potential danger that move could have put us in sends chills down my spine. Another example, we just moved 9 months ago to be closer to family and for a new job, so we went around and around on how much house we could afford. (We hadn't owned in 6 years because he was climbing the corporate ladder and we were getting bounced around everywhere and owning didn't make sense at the time.) I wanted a pretty low budget but he pushed for an even higher one than what I was comfortable with, basically telling me to stop being so miserly (can't argue that--it's in my blood on both sides of the family tree) and that we were doing good and this was the time to get what we wanted. I ended up having a housing search with a $150,000 price range, from my low end to his high end, having put the kabosh on his REALLY high end. And so this just pisses me off since we could have lived in a lower-priced house, as I suggested, and taken that money to rebuild. The same with vehicles when we repatriated. I had a lower budget, he HAD to have certain vehicle. I let him because fine, we were doing good and had the flexibility and it didn't affect our daily expenses. Plus, we paid cash, so I thought I knew where my tolerance level was. But that's thousands we could have saved and applied to starting over and getting this behind us.

I don't know. I hit angry about midnight Thursday night and feel this one's going to stick around for a long time. Just the blatant irresponsibility and financial disregard is really eating away at me. We took a hit and then he thinks he needs to save face and keep up appearances when I unknowingly gave him part of the answer to the problem. I just can't stomach it. I would not have said he was like this before--except for our college years--when he was rash with money (typical stupid college student stuff) but we had talked about goals and what we wanted and he has been onboard from then, I thought. But then this pops up 20 years later and it just makes me think about a leopard not changing his spots.

I also have the issue that his parents are exactly like this with champagne taste on a beer budget and it drives me absolutely crazy. They are self-employed in an industry that's tanked in recent years and never have they diversified or expanded out to cushion those bad years. Quite the head-in-the-sand mentality. I know they're in the red, but they still live high on the hog and spend like it's not an issue. Because, after all, they have appearances to keep up. Yet, the only people they fool is themselves. It's like I told Mr. Sassy, and perhaps I shouldn't compare parents but I was trying to make a point, "Your parents would rather look wealthy than be wealthy. My parents would rather be wealthy. And you need to figure out what side of the coin you're going to be on." So, part of me thinks that this is all a product of how we grew up and how our parents defined money and its use/value/purpose. And now I wonder if he really can change (which is even odd to ponder since I would have said he changed years and years ago)or if he'll just continue to slip back to that stupid keeping up appearances mentality.

I just don't know and this is what I'm watching.

 

[Letj]

I agree with you Financedude. Only Sassy can judge her husband's heart and motivation. It doesn't matter what the 'experts' on the internet tell her. Life is not black and white and no one knows exactly what they would do if faced with the same situation, especially when you consider what's best for your dear little ones. It doesn't surprise me that there are so many divorces since so many people have these unrealistic notions of how the perfect mate would act if he or she really cared about about me. They assume he or she will always act in their best interest and completely forget that we are all human.

 

[Sassy]

Financedude,

You are right about highly intelligent people.

To quote my mom, "Some of the most intelligent people are the stupidest."

 

[KB]

Sassy,
Perhaps both individual and marital counseling will help you get the answers you need to wrap your head around all of this. The individual will help you deal with all of this on your own and the marital might help the two of you come to some sort of terms to move forward. Or to have a common understanding of what has transpired.

I wish you the best.

 

[retire2020]

It is quite easy for some on here to pontificate and armchair quarterback this situation. However, I have personally seen several situations much worse than this. The fact Sassy and her husband are young enough to recover from this is huge. If this has happened going into retirement (which I have seen happen a few times), this would have been much more disastrous. As it is, it is a bad situation.

FD: That's me. I was young(35 yrs old), stupid, flying high and had just learned a beast called margin. My turnover for the year 2000 was 4M and had lost 650K in .com crash. I'm still holding on to that loss and crossing my fingers that someday, I'll be able to wipe off that loss.

Sassy: My .02 cents...
I can relate to your story. My wife used to take care of finances in my home after we got married. Three years into marriage, while cleaning up I found her year old paycheck which she had forgotten to deposit in a bank. That was the day I took over finances.
Whenever she asked about financial situation, my answer was very short - good or bad but I never lied. She never asked for details and I never volunteered to give details because I did not want her to worry about something which had already happened. My wife was earning 50K/yr and I had just burned 650K, 15 years of her take home pay, in just few months in year 2000. I was pissed off, frustrated and felt really bad about what I had done.

This is what helped me during my worse time:

1) Stopped watching market and concentrated on my job. Loosing a job at that time would've been a complete disaster
2) Did not invest anything in market..Paid off margin by June 2001
3) Paid off home mortgage by August 2001
4) I was 100% in individual stocks..never invested again in any individual stocks, never played margin ever again and slowly got back into investing in mutual funds only
5) Besides margin, I had only borrowed three times in my life - college, first car and a home. I saved money first and bought my cars in cash after 2001
6) I was slowly getting back up....and came 2008. Double whammy this time..lost my job in Dec 2008 and my investment was down about 50%. I always kept one year's expense as emergency fund which helped me during this time and did not have to sell my investment to run my home. I was lucky enough to find a job by early April 2009. Two major crashes of Y2K and Y2K8/9 had shattered all my hopes.
7) I again stopped watching market, did not sell anything and whatever money I saved invested slowly in MF.
8) As of Jan this year, I realized that my dream to ER was still possible. I learned about low-cost index fund, re-balancing and asset allocation from this forum(I wish I had found this forum five years ago) and currently in the process to fine tune my portfolio the correct way(finally).

I would say...rather than blaming your husband, please work with him and watch over so same mistakes do not repeat again. Nobody likes to loose and whatever has happened can not be undone. Lying about finances, margin and investing into individual stock is a perfect recipe for disaster - stay away.

 

[Texas Proud]

Sassy, I read your PM before catching up on this thread...

One of my sisters married a guy who would gamble... he would gamble with his company and he would gamble in Vegas... when things were going good, they were going great... but when things went bad... they were very bad... in his late 50s, early 60s he filed for BK owing over $5 million (his company)... they basically lost everything...

Now, he did not lie to her per se, but IMO did not tell her the truth about what he was doing (she was not interested at all)... he started another business after a few years of being depressed to bring in a little money... my sister was a teacher (for 40 years)...

My BIL also started to take cash out from CCs... you have read about it where they offered zero interest, etc. etc.... at one point in time he had over $150K of CC debt... at first he invested in MM and CDs... but then moved it into stock mutual funds... (OH, forgot to mention he had refied and took $100K of equity out)

After my sister retired, he took out a few hundred K from her pension... but she still had a great pension... but, he bought a 45 ft. sailboat...

Well, long story short... he died in 2008... we come to find out that he was lying all along... he said they had enough income to live the life they were living.... a nice house, a big boat, taking vacations etc.... but it was a lie.. my sister was left with $150K of cc debt, a large sailboat that cost money just to sit, the mutual funds balance dropping fast and the only income was her pension... she was able to sell the boat, but it took a year... she used that money to pay down most of the cc debt... she refinance her house to get a lower payment...

The good news is that she has recovered... but only because she had her pension... without that, she would not have anything today.... zip, nada, nothing...

My BIL was not a bad guy at all.... he loved my sister dearly.... she love him dearly.... she put her trust in him that he would take care of her... he did not... he was a gambler... even when he stopped going to Vegas he still gambled (BTW, he was usually had free flights and big hotel rooms when he went.... and he took my sister with him....)... he gambled with investment, he gambled with his business, he gambled with his family...


But, as one of my other sisters has said, it worked out great for him.... he lived like he wanted and died before it came due.... so for him his gamble did work out for him in the end....

 

[gardenfun]

Sassy, I think you're wise to insist that he go to Gamblers' Anonymous. He said he's confident he can stop this behavior. But he said that last time too.
And I agree with others that individual and couples' counseling could really help. I hope that you can find some good ones. It is difficult to get through issues like anger and betrayal on your own without professional help, not to mention addiction.