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Old 11-14-2014, 10:11 AM   #41
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I have worked for my share of psycho bosses - I've outlasted all of them . Bosses change.
+1

But, I also realize this has taken its toll on me over the years.

Currently, I am suffering OMY because of high compensation and decent executives and direct reports. At this point, similar in many ways to OP, I do not believe I would tolerate another psycho boss. (It was a fun game for me when I was younger: Who could outlast whom. Now, not so much.)
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Old 11-14-2014, 10:12 AM   #42
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...snip....
NW-Bound - the big negative thing about my job is my boss. He is truly a psychopath. Otherwise, the job is enjoyable. I need to grin and bear it if I decide to work a few more years. Several years ago, I whined about my job to my cancer fighting brother (RIP). I still remember his exact words. He said, "I wish I have your problem." Perhaps, working for a psychopath is not that bad. Grin and bear, grin and bear, grin and bear ...
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I think your plan of 6 months and reevaluate is great. Let your DB's words be your motivation/mantra. As best you can, realize your boss is a very sick twisted individual. I know it's really hard, but I believe you can do it. My last 2 years I developed an I don't care attitude, didn't show it, but it helped some of the stupid crap slide off. Best Wishes.


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Old 11-14-2014, 10:39 AM   #43
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Good point MRG

I've generally had a don't care attitude with respect to bosses and before I was FI I was confident in my ability to find another job which work in a similar manner to being FI...that is I felt I could say what I wanted when I wanted and if that meant arguing and potentially pissing off the boss oh well. In fact getting laid off could be a perfect scenario (Would love for it to happen to me but sadly I am valued for my honesty )


That kind of attitude might make it easier to get through the daily BS. And remember you are looking at a relatively short term situation...there is a light at the end of the tunnel!
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Old 11-14-2014, 03:25 PM   #44
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sunset, nuke_dive:

Good points, thanks. I was going to RE as early as next month if work situation is just too unbearable. That plan is now scratched, burnt, gone, bye bye. I will assess the situation again in 6 months and decide. But it looks like 1 - 2 OMYs is a prudent thing to do if I can stand my job/boss.
I think it is. I think with your assets and spending levels I think you have too many risk factors and probably not enough of a safety margin. While a $100K seem like a lot of money, even ignoring the housing cost in Silicon Valley it isn't. Plus as you know getting rehired as 50+ year old isn't particularly easy.

I know you discussed splurging a bit while still working. Which makes sense on one level because it is release from having to deal with a bad boss. On the other hand I'd say if you can live on your post retirement income while working than it will be very easy to live on it when you are actually retired. For all the reason that have been discussed on the board. So if you can dial back spending to say $90K that would save you a couple of years of work, and see if you can keep it up for 6-12 months.
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Old 11-14-2014, 04:47 PM   #45
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I think it is. I think with your assets and spending levels I think you have too many risk factors and probably not enough of a safety margin. While a $100K seem like a lot of money, even ignoring the housing cost in Silicon Valley it isn't. Plus as you know getting rehired as 50+ year old isn't particularly easy.

I know you discussed splurging a bit while still working. Which makes sense on one level because it is release from having to deal with a bad boss. On the other hand I'd say if you can live on your post retirement income while working than it will be very easy to live on it when you are actually retired. For all the reason that have been discussed on the board. So if you can dial back spending to say $90K that would save you a couple of years of work, and see if you can keep it up for 6-12 months.

I can get it down to 85k but that represents a significant cut in entertainment budget, and turning a blind eye on unexpected expenses (2014 real examples - washer breaking down, water heater needing replacement, 2 deductibles on car accidents, ....). $100k/year is realistic expense for our ER.

In the last 3 - 4 years due to a lot of things that happened in my life, despite 200k+/year income, I could not save as much as I wanted to. In the next 3 - 4 years, I expect to make 250k/year and increase my total asset on average of $200k/year. OMY seems to be making more and more sense.
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Old 11-14-2014, 05:04 PM   #46
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OMY seems to be making more and more sense.
Dang, I hate that answer, but it does seem to make sense given your numbers.
-- Not to pile on or lecture, but in addition to adding to the nestegg, using the additional time to look at the "outgo" side would probably help put your mind at ease when you come to the next decision point. Checking on Medicaid eligibility for folks/quality of available LTC facilities under Medicaid in your area, maybe looking over the monthly budget with a very sharp pencil, etc. One "takeaway" from the various withdrawal calculators--if we can flex spending so we can accommodate quite a bit of variability in our "take", it makes a big difference in portfolio survival and allows safe ER on a small stash. So, if you don't want to cut actual spending in the first years of ER, but can find places you'd be willing to cut (be honest) in case of a significant string of poor market returns, that can be nearly as useful.
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Old 11-14-2014, 05:59 PM   #47
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I can get it down to 85k but that represents a significant cut in entertainment budget, and turning a blind eye on unexpected expenses (2014 real examples - washer breaking down, water heater needing replacement, 2 deductibles on car accidents, ....). $100k/year is realistic expense for our ER.

In the last 3 - 4 years due to a lot of things that happened in my life, despite 200k+/year income, I could not save as much as I wanted to. In the next 3 - 4 years, I expect to make 250k/year and increase my total asset on average of $200k/year. OMY seems to be making more and more sense.
The median income in CA is around $61K, and that would include households with younger families with kids to support, workers still paying into SS, households saving for retirement, households saving or paying for college, etc. If a big chunk of your expenses are going to family support, then I guess you can't change much. But if not, I would take a hard look at your expenses.

Are you factoring in no more paying into SS, lower state and federal income taxes, and no more job and commute costs? These were pretty hefty decreases for us in annual expenses going into semi-ER.
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Old 11-15-2014, 07:47 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by robnplunder View Post
I can get it down to 85k but that represents a significant cut in entertainment budget, and turning a blind eye on unexpected expenses (2014 real examples - washer breaking down, water heater needing replacement, 2 deductibles on car accidents, ....). $100k/year is realistic expense for our ER.

In the last 3 - 4 years due to a lot of things that happened in my life, despite 200k+/year income, I could not save as much as I wanted to. In the next 3 - 4 years, I expect to make 250k/year and increase my total asset on average of $200k/year. OMY seems to be making more and more sense.


Rob; I might have missed it but did you tell us if you have a mortgage and if so what the monthly payment adds to your annual expenses? If you do have a mortgage you might consider paying it off early as a goal prior to retirement which could significantly reduce your expenses. You might then feel more comfortable REing.
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Old 11-15-2014, 10:23 AM   #49
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Rob; I might have missed it but did you tell us if you have a mortgage and if so what the monthly payment adds to your annual expenses? If you do have a mortgage you might consider paying it off early as a goal prior to retirement which could significantly reduce your expenses. You might then feel more comfortable REing.
I agree.

I realize this is a controversial topic... (to pay off mortgage or not). For me, I added extra principal each month. That did two things - paid down the mortgage fairly quickly AND got me used to living on less. I did not cut back on other savings like 401k, etc. Since it went out automatically (I set up my mortgage payments to take the extra principal) it was similar to the 401k - it was something that happened, and I got used to it.

My mortgage payment had been $1400/month. I started paying 2500/month... so $1100 extra per month. Amazing how quickly the CA size mortgage shrunk. At one point we had an extra stream of income (for about 11 months) - we applied that entire $1000/month to the mortgage so we were paying $3500/month.... it really got knocked down in that period.

My mortgage was small enough to lump sum it when I retired. Not having that payment as part of my spending is a huge thing... gives me a lot more flexibility in options to tighten my belt if there's a market downturn. I'm a big believer in reducing as many fixed monthly costs as possible. The mortgage is usually your biggest fixed cost. (Now, for me, it's health insurance.)
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Old 11-15-2014, 01:56 PM   #50
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I agree.

I realize this is a controversial topic... (to pay off mortgage or not). For me, I added extra principal each month. That did two things - paid down the mortgage fairly quickly AND got me used to living on less. I did not cut back on other savings like 401k, etc. Since it went out automatically (I set up my mortgage payments to take the extra principal) it was similar to the 401k - it was something that happened, and I got used to it.

My mortgage payment had been $1400/month. I started paying 2500/month... so $1100 extra per month. Amazing how quickly the CA size mortgage shrunk. At one point we had an extra stream of income (for about 11 months) - we applied that entire $1000/month to the mortgage so we were paying $3500/month.... it really got knocked down in that period.

My mortgage was small enough to lump sum it when I retired. Not having that payment as part of my spending is a huge thing... gives me a lot more flexibility in options to tighten my belt if there's a market downturn. I'm a big believer in reducing as many fixed monthly costs as possible. The mortgage is usually your biggest fixed cost. (Now, for me, it's health insurance.)
One consideration regarding paying off a mortgage is that when it's late in the amortization schedule (like 3 maybe 4 years left) it might not be worth selling investment assets to pay it off. That's why we haven't, but might reconsider paying it off next year when it's less than 30K lump sum balance remaining for psychological reasons (since we plan to retire by next year or sooner).

BUT paying extra principle in the earlier years of the amortization schedule, when interest vs. principle payment is higher, IMO makes complete sense to do.
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Old 11-16-2014, 01:50 AM   #51
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Are you factoring in no more paying into SS, lower state and federal income taxes, and no more job and commute costs? These were pretty hefty decreases for us in annual expenses going into semi-ER.
Besides the house, my biggest expenses are golf, finance support of my parents, and dining out. As I age, they will be reduced a la Bernicke spending model. I still do a lot of LBYM. E.g, I take company shuttle to work, have only one car, have no smartphone, pack lunch to work, ...

I thought about paying off the house but with $380k to go, I have to use my investment money to pay it off. If I move to Roseville, I can probably buy house with cash from selling the house in Bay Area. That will reduce expense quite a bit. But I don't want to think about moving out of Bay Area yet.
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Old 11-16-2014, 12:18 PM   #52
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Besides the house, my biggest expenses are golf, finance support of my parents, and dining out. As I age, they will be reduced a la Bernicke spending model. I still do a lot of LBYM. E.g, I take company shuttle to work, have only one car, have no smartphone, pack lunch to work, ...

I thought about paying off the house but with $380k to go, I have to use my investment money to pay it off. If I move to Roseville, I can probably buy house with cash from selling the house in Bay Area. That will reduce expense quite a bit. But I don't want to think about moving out of Bay Area yet.
Your other option is to stay in the area and downsize or move out of town a bit but not as far as Roseville. You have lots of options. A couple from one of our clubs just moved to a condo near a small golf course that didn't cost much more than the current equity in your home.
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Old 11-18-2014, 03:15 PM   #53
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I can relate to your situation. Our numbers are very close, Approx. $1.8 mil in 401k, IRA, etc. + Home $250k. No mortgage or debt. Me 53, DH 57. He does have a pension $35k a year. Goal is $120k in spending in retirement Can reduce but would cut into our travel/fun budget. But same situation with politics at work. But our goal is to work until 4/1/2018. We both make good salaries, and I want to buffer our stash so we don't have to give up our fun/travel budget. We could live on less but we would rather keep plugging away for 3 years and ensure a more comfortable retirement. We do enjoy life now too. Generally, 1 overseas trip a year and a couple in the US a year. The increase in our stash will also help with any surprises along the way.
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Old 11-22-2014, 10:35 AM   #54
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Thanks for your input. My parents are separated and have no asset. In fact, I supplement their SS income on monthly basis. My current yearly expense includes my financial support to them. DM may end up with Alzheimer. I think I am good to assume that medicaid will take care of their LTC fully?
well they will make sure they survive. but I know they didn't pay for lots of meds, so don't expect it to take care of everything. I paid for my Grandma's Alzheimers meds that weren't approved as then at least when I saw her she had some idea of who I was. They paid for certain drugs but those didn't help her.. so you may want to factor that in.. but that's LOT less expensive then trying to figure out how to pay $40-50K for a nursing home.
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