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Old 06-28-2007, 06:23 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by outtarentals View Post
It's important to remember that without prop 13, many elderly homeowners in California would have to sell their homes because they couldn't afford their property taxes...
otta - the less than rich whether elderly or not are accommodated here in Minnesota through a Property Tax Refund based on income level - pretty simple.....don't hear about the elderly being forced to sell because of property tax here...


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I already pay a CA housing premium so that I can live in a place without snow and ice in the winter or heat, humidity and mosquitos as large as small planes in the summer and so that I can eat sushi rather than that awfull sounding scandinavian fish stuff that all of the Minnesotans are always talking about but I would gladly pay more taxes to have public schools and other services like those in MN (and my kids are in private schools).

MB

Think most of the property tax goes to clearing that snow and ice and futile efforts to kill those that bite..all contribute by the way to keeping the population at reasonable levels. That concoction of which you speak not only sounds awful, it smells and tastes even worse - I would much rather eat haggis

Please humor me for a moment while I share the following: What is Lutefiske? Lutefiske is a food that used to be eaten generations ago in Norway. They stopped eating it in Norway as soon as there was something better to eat. Unfortunately, Norwegians who moved to Minnesota failed to get that message. So every year, around Christmastime, you can find restaurants and churches that offer Lutefiske suppers. It's dried codfish that has been soaked in lye until the bones disolve in order to preserve it. Imagine very old codfish (the stuff the cat might not eat) softened into a jelly-like substance with lye. It smells terrible, tastes terrible, and feels terrible in your mouth. There is a natural reaction to gag - think the body's defense mechanism to avoid being poisoned.
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Old 06-28-2007, 08:46 AM   #22
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Before prop 13, property taxes went up faster than inflation.
After prop 13, property taxes went up slower than inflation.

As the condemned engineer said, when noticing a knot in the guillotine rope: "I think I know how to fix this."
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Old 06-28-2007, 09:34 AM   #23
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Before prop 13, property taxes went up faster than inflation.
After prop 13, property taxes went up slower than inflation.

As the condemned engineer said, when noticing a knot in the guillotine rope: "I think I know how to fix this."
Well, Al as old Davey Crockett once said, " There's more than one way to skin a cat".

He also said and this one I like: You may go to hell, I will go to Texas.
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Old 06-28-2007, 11:19 AM   #24
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but I would gladly pay more taxes to have public schools and other services like those in MN (and my kids are in private schools).

MB
Stick a fork in California. Most people who make the money will not agree with you. They know that California schools will never be what they were 40 or 50 years ago. They simply cannot be because of the social and demographic changes that have taken place and continue to take place.

California is losing the native middle class. It resembles more and more an international version of Mexico, or Colombia.

Find yourself a nice place in a gated community, look into armored cars and private police forces and let the good times roll!

Ha
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Old 06-28-2007, 03:41 PM   #25
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Stick a fork in California. Most people who make the money will not agree with you. They know that California schools will never be what they were 40 or 50 years ago. They simply cannot be because of the social and demographic changes that have taken place and continue to take place.

California is losing the native middle class. It resembles more and more an international version of Mexico, or Colombia.

Find yourself a nice place in a gated community, look into armored cars and private police forces and let the good times roll!

Ha
Since we're tossing out metaphorical sayings around here, why not describe attempts to fix California as "rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic"?
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Old 06-28-2007, 03:55 PM   #26
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I'd like to see a Proposition that gives $10,000 per year to every man, woman, and child who has resided in California for greater than 10 years. And everyone who has resided in CA less than 10 years will be taxed a few thousand dollars per year to pay for this new program. You know, the program to reward long-time Californians who made it the great place it is today.

Except one would have to conduct a little demographic research to set the "years of residency" requirement so that 51% of the folks will qualify for the $10,000 check. Otherwise the Prop might not get passed. Sounds kind of like a pyramid scheme now that I think about it. But that shouldn't present any long term problems, should it?
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Old 06-28-2007, 04:17 PM   #27
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Perhaps it'd be interesting to stop looking at the resulting problem (lousy schools in CA) and start looking at the real problem.

Which isnt that taxes arent high enough...its that the money isnt spent in the right places.

MA did the same crap when prop 2 1/2 was put in place. The bureaucrats laid off all the teachers, police and firemen. Then a lot of them got voted out and some of the bureaucracy was cut and most of the useful civil servants hired back.

Besides, I thought it had been established that there wasnt much of a correlation between money spent on schools and the quality of an education.

Of course, all those studies (and I wonder who could have done them : ) sort of go out the window when you look at the school scores in our new wealthy town vs our old not so wealthy town...
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Old 06-28-2007, 04:50 PM   #28
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Perhaps it'd be interesting to stop looking at the resulting problem (lousy schools in CA) and start looking at the real problem.
Ding, ding, ding!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 06-28-2007, 04:56 PM   #29
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Hey...that'll be 50c and no more IOU's!

Seriously though...california pulled in an enormous windfall in the late 90's from taxes on all of that 'unexpected' investment income, and they're pulling more in the last few years.

Did that get funneled into the schools or other worthy causes?

Ummm...NO! I was spent on more pork.

But people do like to go directly for the tax 'stick' when the quality of services suffers. And the bureaucrats know that.
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Old 06-28-2007, 05:00 PM   #30
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I lived in the Bay Area - Walnut Creek, we moved there because we thought they had some pretty good public schools relative to what was on offer (when I got to MN my definition of good changed)...the class room size for elementary was 35. ..they had closed the next door elementary school and put kids in trailers on the playground. They axed the arts and music programs and were constantly looking for more to cut. The parents were holding fundraisers to try to staunch the bleeding, I got volunteered by the principal to get an old stinking sea container from work hauled out to the playground to store sports equipment. I also had to clean it out and paint it! He did mention me in the monthly newsletter though

There was a woman at a party that was big on the benefits of Prop 13.
When I offered that I thought smaller classroom sizes were a good thing,etc. she seriously said that it was ok the way it was since they would be going to college with classrooms that had a couple hundred students in them....I went and got another drink and someone else to chat with.
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