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Old 11-29-2009, 03:58 PM   #41
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brogan007..let me guess..."You are from Nigeria? and you have a secret that we don't know..? yada.yada.yada.
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Old 11-29-2009, 04:00 PM   #42
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I am fine if you move away.
Me too. Heck, I'll even help him pack!
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Old 11-29-2009, 04:02 PM   #43
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And here is the pitch...
And then, just when I was getting ready to swing for the fence...

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No pitch. Nothing to sell.
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Old 11-29-2009, 04:03 PM   #44
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Wow, you guys must all be Americans to be so closed minded.
Debate is an essential tool in a democracy....pity you guys don't seem to undersatnd it.
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Old 11-29-2009, 04:03 PM   #45
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It seems that the cult of "we can beat the market" is alive & kicking here.
You don't seem to read very well. The people here will be the first to call out anyone that thinks they can beat the market consistently.
Frankly, I am planning on slightly less than historical market returns over the long term.
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Old 11-29-2009, 04:08 PM   #46
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Wow, you guys must all be Americans to be so closed minded.
Debate is an essential tool in a democracy....pity you guys don't seem to undersatnd it.
Wait, don't tell me. You're an expatriate Frenchman temporarily living in Nevada. I knew there must be some secret to your penetrating insight.
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Old 11-29-2009, 04:08 PM   #47
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Wow, you guys must all be Americans to be so closed minded.
Debate is an essential tool in a democracy....pity you guys don't seem to undersatnd it.

And you must be a...

Ah, never mind. Say hello to the other creatures in my ignore list. Cannot be bothered to wait for the inevitable sales pitch.
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Old 11-29-2009, 04:09 PM   #48
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Wow, you guys must all be Americans to be so closed minded.
Debate is an essential tool in a democracy....pity you guys don't seem to undersatnd it.
We are very interested in debate. Do you have anything to back up your position? Numbers, calculations, etc?
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Old 11-29-2009, 04:11 PM   #49
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Yes, some facts would be nice. The "I know I'm right" arguement doesn't hold much weight in a serious discussion - unless the purpose of the discussion is simply to troll.
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Old 11-29-2009, 04:12 PM   #50
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Wow, you guys must all be Americans to be so closed minded.
Actually, I'm Canadian and therefore legally can move myself and my assets to another country and avoid have no obligation to pay Canadian income tax. To do that I give up a lot of the advantages (and there are many) of being a good tax paying resident of the Arctic Wastelands.
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Old 11-29-2009, 04:13 PM   #51
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brogan007 buy or sell what you want or if you want to leave... Go right ahead. It's all about choices. We make choices every day of our lives. Some choose to save, some choose to spend, some choose to structure fianancial matters to retire early, some choose to work until they die. It is a series of choices and chance that determine our lot in life. Thrift and effort and doing with a little less along the way allow many here to have more time and money. Whining just doesn't cut it. If you don't like the options then move on to a new game or place. The choice is yours. I am happy that my choices allowed me to retire at 50 which was 5 years ago. I still have no need or desire to return to work. Now, if the government makes it too ugly I may choose to change my location. But, that is my choice.
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Old 11-29-2009, 04:14 PM   #52
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Wow, you guys must all be Americans to be so closed minded.
Perfect way to get into our good graces so we'll want to listen to you. Bravo!
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Old 11-29-2009, 04:14 PM   #53
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....the world of investing has changed. Buy & hold Index funds are history.
Okay, I'll bite...what should we be buying?
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Old 11-29-2009, 06:34 PM   #54
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Okay, I'll bite...what should we be buying?

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...
Brings me back to my original concept...there is no answer, even worse if you have to carry the load of bankrupt citizens.
I smile at folks when they try to argue ...."There's no major problem, buy an Index Fund and forget it"
Jeez Loiuse.
btw...many US citizens have already disconnected & are living an expatriate lifestyle, not subject to US tax. I feel this is the answer.
.....
Brogan seems to claim his answer, if there is one, is heading off the grid - out of The Matrix. I guess his answer would be to buy seeds, ammo, and MREs. I'm too lazy to go all full pioneer - I like dental care and grocery stores. His choice to do as he wishes - if he's fully cognizant of the penalties he's welcome to try evading and avoiding taxes. Railing against people who are doing just fine working their own plans seems kind of silly - maybe he's just looking for validation for his untested plan?

Oh, BTW, considered NZ a few years back - turns out I was too old and would have had to buy my way into the country. Doable, but the more I read on the expat newsgroup the less attractive and free it seemed. No offense to any Kiwis, and the "tall poppy gets cut" culture has some attractions, but it really didn't sound all that Shire-like to me.
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Old 11-29-2009, 07:16 PM   #55
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I like dental care...
Ah! We all know dental care is overrated. Just have them all pulled, slap on full dentures and one is set for life.
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Old 11-29-2009, 07:22 PM   #56
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Going back to the subject, the best way to guarantee there is "no hope" is to assume there IS no hope.
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"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)

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Old 11-29-2009, 07:38 PM   #57
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Darn, I was sure we could bring brogan around...not. I don't know that I have ever seen anyone change his/her mind substantially in any online forum, but it's entertaining to try and we all usually learn something in the process.
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Old 11-29-2009, 07:57 PM   #58
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Old 11-29-2009, 08:36 PM   #59
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brogan - you have a point. For the average Joe retirement isn't really an option.

However, if any particular Joe chooses to moderate his behavior, maybe fund the retirement account before buying the big screen tv or the $150 cable package, then yeah its entirely doable.
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Old 11-29-2009, 11:16 PM   #60
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