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Old 10-23-2015, 01:21 AM   #101
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I think we could be perfectly happy on even a half an acre in coastal California in a 1.3 home, but it would not be my dream situation, even in the coastal communities. In CT, to be on the water is at least 4mm and I have friends with 10mm houses and know it is even crazier there. My wife is from Oregon and California is her dream. I can't deal with traffic, we have some in CT but nothing like what you have. The weather is awesome out there but I'm not sure I could handle no seasons. I lived in Florida and it was not for me. I think it is what you are used to. I grew up wearing wool LL Bean sweaters and docksiders. I do think my attitude is sort of west coast, I have some theories but will spare you. The reason for wanting a large property was to have a homestead type of situation, chickens, fruit trees, garden, maybe even a pond or some type of water feature. I think in California you have to be a park/ beach person. But there are some incredible parks out there...
Sustainable living is a big interest for many here in the Bay Area so even in urban areas there are some backyard chickens. We have a two different sets of friends who live in urban areas and have chickens.

The Bay Area does have traffic, though I think less than LA because of the public transportation system here. You can plan some vacations and just see what states and cities within those states suit you and your family best.
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Old 10-23-2015, 04:36 AM   #102
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RE Traffic: traffic is probably the #1 reason the DW and I would like to move to Orcas island. Here in San Diego, even though the freeways are reasonably clear, the drivers are generally still driving like maniacs, cutting each other off and tailgating at 70 mph, etc. I deliberately bought a larger vehicle, a new Toyota Highlander, last year, so that I could feel more comfortable on the freeways. I can, mostly, ignore anyone tailgating me now. The Highlander is 4500 lbs empty and is I think the most comfortable car I have ever owned. I would have probably gone even heavier, with a Sequoia, if I could have afforded the additional $10k. Also, at 6,000 lbs empty, the gas mileage is even worse. If you plan on coming to Cali you might want to consider such a beast instead of a small car.

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Old 10-23-2015, 09:35 AM   #103
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You may have conflicting wants that you need to consolidate. In other words, what's more important to you. Sustainable living or coastal property around $1.3 with large land. In Northern California, you need to go further north, closer to Oregon to get more land, you may get coastal property, but it's cold, not warm water. In Southern California, Coastal properties are very expensive, in the $10 million range or more, and not with large land either. I mean ocean front. But you can find homes within 1-2 mile off the coast, you get sea breeze, but no ocean view for about $2-$3 with less than 1/2 acre, if you lucky to find them.These are prime properties, they are not cheap, they have not been cheap since I've lived here.
Traffic is bad in Southern California, this one reason I never suggested any place in LA in the first place. But if you need to drive to LA then I agree with getting a big car, I do have a large SUV, there are lots of bad drivers on the road, some are texting while driving on the fast lane.
What about Oregon? Why not move to Oregon, at least it's closer to your wife's family and it's certainly cheaper than California. BTW, California has dry heat, so not like Florida. If you like cooler area because you are used to four seasons then Northern California is better suite for you. It's cooler than Southern California. I did live in New England for a few years so I know you will miss it. Fall color is beautiful, it's what lured me to the East Coast initially but after a few the harsh winters, I moved back to California.


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Old 10-23-2015, 09:37 AM   #104
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I think we could be perfectly happy on even a half an acre in coastal California in a 1.3 home, but it would not be my dream situation, even in the coastal communities. In CT, to be on the water is at least 4mm and I have friends with 10mm houses and know it is even crazier there. My wife is from Oregon and California is her dream. I can't deal with traffic, we have some in CT but nothing like what you have. The weather is awesome out there but I'm not sure I could handle no seasons. I lived in Florida and it was not for me. I think it is what you are used to. I grew up wearing wool LL Bean sweaters and docksiders. I do think my attitude is sort of west coast, I have some theories but will spare you. The reason for wanting a large property was to have a homestead type of situation, chickens, fruit trees, garden, maybe even a pond or some type of water feature. I think in California you have to be a park/ beach person. But there are some incredible parks out there...
If you like the seasons, don't like traffic, and want a lot of land then CA might not be the right place. FWIW, as you probably know CA weather is a lot more temperate than Florida. Some people prefer Florida weather but many Californians would view Florida as much too hot and way too humid. You will definitely need a sweater in the winter time here and even in spring/fall certainly in the evenings at least. The summers don't usually get too much hotter than 80 or so with a lot of perfect 75 degree days. However, if you want snow then you'll have to drive a couple hours to the mountains.

As far as traffic I view most of the major cities in CA as being configured differently than the Eastern seaboard cities. Generally, cities in the East Coast are dense urban cores surrounded by towns that to Californians seem quaint and almost rural. The advantages are that you don't have much traffic but a perceived disadvantage is that if you generally want access to the amenities of a major city like NYC, Boston, etc then you have to go to the urban core. CA is different as you know and a lot of Easterners don't like the lack of urban cores. Instead, Californians generally live in "suburbs" which are a lot denser than an Eastern town and blend in with the neighboring suburb which creates the "sprawl" as some would call it. The density creates a lot more traffic. However, the density also means that Californians are generally able to get a lot more amenities nearby and don't need to go to the urban core. This model is evolving though as the urban core trend has taken off over the last 10-15 years with the millenials. However, this may the reason you won't like CA as you generally won't find large lots anything close to what you are looking for at the price points you want in locations anywhere you want to be. If you look at towns you want to live in then at the price points you want you won't get the lot size you want and you will get more traffic. Anyway, these are all generalizations and I am sure there are, as always, plenty of examples that will prove me wrong.
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Old 10-23-2015, 01:07 PM   #105
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If you like the seasons, don't like traffic, and want a lot of land then CA might not be the right place. FWIW, as you probably know CA weather is a lot more temperate than Florida. Some people prefer Florida weather but many Californians would view Florida as much too hot and way too humid. You will definitely need a sweater in the winter time here and even in spring/fall certainly in the evenings at least. The summers don't usually get too much hotter than 80 or so with a lot of perfect 75 degree days. However, if you want snow then you'll have to drive a couple hours to the mountains.

As far as traffic I view most of the major cities in CA as being configured differently than the Eastern seaboard cities. Generally, cities in the East Coast are dense urban cores surrounded by towns that to Californians seem quaint and almost rural. The advantages are that you don't have much traffic but a perceived disadvantage is that if you generally want access to the amenities of a major city like NYC, Boston, etc then you have to go to the urban core. CA is different as you know and a lot of Easterners don't like the lack of urban cores. Instead, Californians generally live in "suburbs" which are a lot denser than an Eastern town and blend in with the neighboring suburb which creates the "sprawl" as some would call it. The density creates a lot more traffic. However, the density also means that Californians are generally able to get a lot more amenities nearby and don't need to go to the urban core. This model is evolving though as the urban core trend has taken off over the last 10-15 years with the millenials. However, this may the reason you won't like CA as you generally won't find large lots anything close to what you are looking for at the price points you want in locations anywhere you want to be. If you look at towns you want to live in then at the price points you want you won't get the lot size you want and you will get more traffic. Anyway, these are all generalizations and I am sure there are, as always, plenty of examples that will prove me wrong.
Yup, these are pretty much my impressions of California and this helps clarify it for me. To be retired in SoCal or outside San Fran Marin County I would probably need an extra 2mm at least. Everyone thinks that if they just had that extra million they would be set but in my case it really is the difference at least in California or Fairfield County CT. It's funny because I am sort of on that border of what most people think as "wealthy". I kind of like it that way, especially for my kids. Don't want them to think they'll have a free ride.
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Old 10-23-2015, 02:01 PM   #106
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Yup, these are pretty much my impressions of California and this helps clarify it for me. To be retired in SoCal or outside San Fran Marin County I would probably need an extra 2mm at least. Everyone thinks that if they just had that extra million they would be set but in my case it really is the difference at least in California or Fairfield County CT. It's funny because I am sort of on that border of what most people think as "wealthy". I kind of like it that way, especially for my kids. Don't want them to think they'll have a free ride.
I mentioned this before, but I think the book What Happy People Know would be material you would find interesting. Below is an excerpt from an interview with one of the authors, a Director at Canyon Ranch so he works with many people with your level of wealth and above:

"....people do expect things to make them happy. Madison Avenue has had a mantra for years: Happiness is in your next purchase. That's a great marketing concept, because it's never-ending. There will always be one more purchase.

Once I understand that I'm being set up to keep looking for satisfaction-or whatever it is I think will make me happy-in a never-ending succession of purchases, I'm not going to think that the new sports car, or the new home on the beach or in the mountains, or this or that, is going to bring happiness, because I begin to understand that happiness isn't in things."

"Research shows that having more does not make us happier, either as a society or as individuals, once our basic needs have been met. In fact, in my own work, I often observe an inverse relationship between money and happiness: The more materialistic we are, the less happy we are. I see so many instances of things owning people, as opposed to people owning things. When people have a lot of material things, they begin to worry about upkeep and management and maintenance and staff. The list goes on and on."

Article: What-Happy-People-Know
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Old 10-27-2015, 08:33 AM   #107
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I live in culver city (close to work in Santa Monica). It's got great schools and semi reasonable housing (1m for about 2500 sqrt and 7500sqft lot). DW and I looked all over the west LA area and it was the best considering schools, cost, proximity to beach. I'm about 2 miles from the ocean and there's biking/walking along Arroyos so no traffic.

Family lives in inland empire. Different in weather is pretty rapid. CC ranges from about 50-80 peak to trough. Yorba Linda is more like 40-100. Those 10-20 degrees make a big difference ... And that's why it's so much cheaper.

Rancho Polos Verdes is super nice. We almost bought a place there but commute is brutal because of limited freeway access... But if you can pick your hours it's scenery is impressive and you can get decent housing with great schools as well.

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Old 11-01-2015, 12:01 PM   #108
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Coastal area, $1.3 and large garden w chickens.

Take a look at the east side of Hood Canal (WA) or perhaps Gold Beach, Oregon
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Old 11-01-2015, 12:22 PM   #109
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Hood Canal used to be a superfund toxic waste site. See:http://cumulis.epa.gov/supercpad/cur...cfm?id=1001121

I'd approach this with caution.
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Old 11-01-2015, 02:38 PM   #110
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I honestly believe that is more risk from septic systems than actions of the navy.
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Old 11-01-2015, 03:25 PM   #111
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Getting back to the school pressure issue for kids, I saw this article today in Salon on busy kids and the culture of achievement. The mom / author even lives in one of the San Francisco suburbs mentioned in this thread.

We're destroying our kids for nothing: Too much homework, too many tests, too much needless pressure

"So, while it’s true that resilient children need to cope with risk and failure as a part of life, we’ve set up their childhoods as a destructive march to likely defeat. “Success” equates to attending the most prestigious college and then netting the big house and the high-paying job. Winning the education race, we’re told, is the way to get there. Rather than building their resilience, such a high-stakes education drives our children to chronic insecurity. Fear. Anxiety. Disconnection. Loneliness. Record rates of depression."
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Old 11-03-2015, 07:54 PM   #112
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Getting back to the school pressure issue for kids, I saw this article today in Salon on busy kids and the culture of achievement. The mom / author even lives in one of the San Francisco suburbs mentioned in this thread.

We're destroying our kids for nothing: Too much homework, too many tests, too much needless pressure

"So, while it’s true that resilient children need to cope with risk and failure as a part of life, we’ve set up their childhoods as a destructive march to likely defeat. “Success” equates to attending the most prestigious college and then netting the big house and the high-paying job. Winning the education race, we’re told, is the way to get there. Rather than building their resilience, such a high-stakes education drives our children to chronic insecurity. Fear. Anxiety. Disconnection. Loneliness. Record rates of depression."
This is so relevant to what our concern is here in CT. We had a dinner party scheduled at our place Saturday and literally everyone has some sports function or activity until 8:30 pm. At least two of the couples oldest children are 1st grade, I mean I think your kindergartner is going to be ok missing a hockey practice one night. I love these guys but when dad played baseball and football for Harvard and is installing an ice rink so his kids can practice at home, it puts things in perspective how uber competitive it is here. My middle son has expressed some interest in sports but I am not going to be one of these Dads that forces him into something or makes him feel inadequate. My younger guy at two has the build of a mini linebacker and loves anything involving balls, so I would be willing to bet money that he follows that path and the same for my daughter, but I worry about all the pressure.
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Old 11-03-2015, 08:52 PM   #113
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This is so relevant to what our concern is here in CT. We had a dinner party scheduled at our place Saturday and literally everyone has some sports function or activity until 8:30 pm. At least two of the couples oldest children are 1st grade, I mean I think your kindergartner is going to be ok missing a hockey practice one night
Work long hours all week and be at kids sports practices and games all weekend - the New American Dream? I found the video below funny and all too true (foul language warning) - Lewis Black rants on kids soccer tournaments:

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Old 11-03-2015, 08:56 PM   #114
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This is so relevant to what our concern is here in CT. We had a dinner party scheduled at our place Saturday and literally everyone has some sports function or activity until 8:30 pm. At least two of the couples oldest children are 1st grade, I mean I think your kindergartner is going to be ok missing a hockey practice one night. I love these guys but when dad played baseball and football for Harvard and is installing an ice rink so his kids can practice at home, it puts things in perspective how uber competitive it is here. My middle son has expressed some interest in sports but I am not going to be one of these Dads that forces him into something or makes home feel inadequate. My younger guy at two has the build of a mini linebacker and loves anything involving balls, so I would be willing to bet money that he follows that path and the same for my daughter, but I worry about all the pressure.
Yes, the stress is out of control -- with much of it inflicted by parents or at least enabled by parents who aren't aware/in tune enough to help their kids understand that you need balance in your life.

I've seen stupid stuff in our community. Highlight: 4th graders riding carbon bikes with clipless pedals and aero sunglasses in the kids end of school mini-tri. I wondered how his parents felt as he passed the girl who's bike had a basket, bell and the half flat tires? Proud? If so, why??

That said, if you live in a neighborhood where some lunatic is installing an ice rink so his 1st grader can practice, i would get the heck out of there ASAP. That's nutty -- both in terms of cost and in terms of the implied pressure on the kids. If they decide they don't want to be Wayne Gretzsky, what will daddy do with his ice rink??
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Old 11-04-2015, 06:18 AM   #115
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Work long hours all week and be at kids sports practices and games all weekend - the New American Dream? I found the video below funny and all too true (foul language warning) - Lewis Black rants on kids soccer tournaments:
Too funny. Lewis Black defined our lives as soccer parents. And we also did the hockey thing, when all ice time for practices was at 5am on Saturday mornings.
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Old 11-04-2015, 07:01 AM   #116
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The terms "competitive" and "success" are pretty interesting.

Competing for what and successful by which measure .

I think much of this is rational within a lunatic framework.

My kids are very young (1 & 3) and my only expectation is that they are kind, considerate and thoughtful. I plan to expose them to lots of different things and I hope they find something they feel passionate about and if they don't... That's ok too.

So many co-workers are trying to get their kids to do x, y, z to get "an advantage." The irony is most of those people aren't doing what they love and the "more" they are trying to get is primarily so their kids won't have to do that . It all seems kinda crazy to me.

Mostly I want my kids to do something that they love and that is at least "society neutral."

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Old 11-04-2015, 10:31 AM   #117
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Too funny. Lewis Black defined our lives as soccer parents. And we also did the hockey thing, when all ice time for practices was at 5am on Saturday mornings.
I used to be the team mom many years, so I guess I am guilty of perpetuating the lunatic framework. Some weekends my husband and I would not only have worked all week, we would be in different cities on Saturday with different kids, different teams. That was nuts.

I can now report back a decade later that not winning the state soccer championship in middle school did not permanently scar any of the neighborhood kids for life, and it has not been a question on any post college job application, so maybe we all should have chilled out and gone hiking instead.
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Old 11-04-2015, 01:58 PM   #118
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I've seen stupid stuff in our community. Highlight: 4th graders riding carbon bikes with clipless pedals and aero sunglasses in the kids end of school mini-tri. I wondered how his parents felt as he passed the girl who's bike had a basket, bell and the half flat tires? Proud? If so, why??
Blame the race organizers not the parents. Clearly the poor little girl with the old fashioned bike should have been banished to the servant's triathlon. The kids with the proper carbon bikes should never have been forced to see this - poor dears.
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Old 11-04-2015, 07:23 PM   #119
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Too funny. Lewis Black defined our lives as soccer parents. And we also did the hockey thing, when all ice time for practices was at 5am on Saturday mornings.
Hilarious, love it!
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Old 11-04-2015, 07:45 PM   #120
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That said, if you live in a neighborhood where some lunatic is installing an ice rink so his 1st grader can practice, i would get the heck out of there ASAP. That's nutty -- both in terms of cost and in terms of the implied pressure on the kids. If they decide they don't want to be Wayne Gretzsky, what will daddy do with his ice rink??
Interesting. Back in the dark ages of my youth in Chicago, we had one neighbor who did a so-so job of laying down some ice on the vacant lot next to his house and who built a couple of wooden goals (with no net, you just had to see the puck pass through). It was great! I wore out several pairs of hand-me-down skates over the winters he did that.

We'd have pick-up games every weekend. Sometimes, if enough of us could convince our parents that our homework was done (not hard, we went to the Chicago Public Schools) even a weekday short-handed game in the winter evening darkness with only a nearby porch light illuminating the area.

Never considered the dad that did this a "lunatic." He was our hero.

What kind of activities do you consider appropriate and facilitate for your kids?
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