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Old 09-06-2015, 11:38 AM   #21
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OP - Please do NOT buy any more real estate. I know as I own a number of properties and its a lousy way to make $$$ given that you cannot do any repairs yourself so you are at the mercy of repairmen. Plus the effort involved in renting, and it ties up too much cash.
Like earlier poster said, index funds are better especially as you get worse healthwise.

Any other siblings who can help your mom ?
I have a brother but he's not willing to give Mom cash.
He's smarter and stronger than I am. I don't blame him because Mom is a compulsive catalog shopper buying lots of crap she doesn't need. I've tried the making her feel guilty for spending while making me pay, but it just doesn't sink in.

And I know real estate doesn't have the best returns but I haven't done that great in mutual funds either. I live in Miami and the rents are thru the roof here lately. Not sure how long that will last but there are a ton of companies building lots of high end apartment complexes here. Seems that affordable housing is not worth the effort of these companies which makes bread and butter land lording a worthwhile effort.

I have a property manager and he's pretty reasonable at only 6%. I'm so much happier having him manage these properties for me now. I don't know my tenants, don't care to know them and he deposits the profits into my bank accounts every month. He's getting me more rent than I was getting myself which more than covers his fees and he hasn't really done many repairs yet and the ones he did I was expecting to do.

For the most part those two apartments were in pretty decent shape with new appliances, ACs and kitchen and bath cabinets. They are 35 year old condos but they are in desirable areas so they rent very quickly. We literally have one moving in and out in the same day. Will it continue? I have no idea but right now I feel it's probably the best place I could put my money. I'm just not that up to speed on mutual funds and stocks.
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Old 09-06-2015, 11:38 AM   #22
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This does seem like the most logical solution.
I'd even be open to moving there myself and getting Mom a senior housing arrangement but she refuses to move.
The reason why I even have a second mortgage on my place was that the house needed a 30K roof put on it and I didn't have the cash at the time because she pitched a fit and we closed the equity line that I had been using on that home to borrow against to keep my expenses at a manageable amount. Since losing that equity line everything has gone south as far as monthly payments. Now with no income I doubt I'd get that line re-opened and she wouldn't agree to it anyway. I feel like I'm being held hostage until something happens to them both. I just hope the nursing home doesn't try to take the home as collateral for her care in the future. If that happened then I'd really be screwed. At that point I'd just move into it and be stuck with it for the rest of my life. I really should do some estate planning with her but she feels that if we talk about these issues then she will somehow magically die the next day. Living in denial is an art she has perfected to a T. Sadly thanks to me and my stupidity in trying to be a good and fair daughter.
You are talking like the house your mom lives in, is not your property.
If it's your property, sell it, worst case is she moves in with you.

If it's your property it cannot be used as collateral for nursing home as your mom does not own it (and you should NOT co-sign for her for anything).

You should look into what assistance your mother qualifies for, since her SS is so low (or does she have other pension income?). This will take pressure off you to pay for stuff.
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Old 09-06-2015, 11:44 AM   #23
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Given your back is a bit against the wall, you may want to consider getting a court directed division of the property with both of your mom and you on title. Not sure about your state's laws but legal aid attorney could advise.
Typically, when real estate is held by two or more parties and they can not agree on sale, court requires either one party to buy out the other or a sale, where funds are evenly divided.
While you would be giving up part of your equity, you would be freeing yourself on ongoing expenses for property taxes, insurance, and repairs plus getting the liquidity to pay off your credit card. Tough message to your Mom but it sounds like you have moved on.
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Old 09-06-2015, 11:46 AM   #24
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I would not recommend you get into buying stocks in general, but as an alternative to real estate which requires lots of work and has high risk (imagine a tenant trashes your place, I've seen it happen to the tune of $30K).

I would only recommend Vanguard funds as the expenses are low, you never want to pay more than 0.30% management fee for a mutual fund.
They have funds and ETF's, either would be fine and I use both.
Some Vanguard ETF's are super low cost like VTI which is 0.05% annual fee.
They are at www.vanguard.com
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Old 09-06-2015, 11:59 AM   #25
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You are talking like the house your mom lives in, is not your property.
If it's your property, sell it, worst case is she moves in with you.

If it's your property it cannot be used as collateral for nursing home as your mom does not own it (and you should NOT co-sign for her for anything).

You should look into what assistance your mother qualifies for, since her SS is so low (or does she have other pension income?). This will take pressure off you to pay for stuff.
Well it's both of ours on paper.
I purchased it with my credit and paid it off with profits from an apartment building that I sold at the height of the market here.
I also used some of those profits to buy the place where I live now which is a downtown condo. The prices are already past the pre-market crash so I'd hate to sell right at this moment since I see lots of foreign activity going on here.

The only way I could sell it is with her cooperation or if she loses her mental faculties and I become her guardian. Luckily Mom is sharp as a tack mentally so at least I know I am probably not facing an Alzheimers situation but getting her to agree to fix this just is not happening. I guess her thinking is that she doesn't have much time left on this planet and the time that she does have will be spent as she well sees fit regardless of what burden she creates. I've been shocked at how selfish some old people become until I had to experience it for myself.

And since I live in a 1 bedroom downtown loft condo there is no suitable living arrangement for both of us here. I struggle with the stairs myself but can still manage it, if she moved here it would be an accident waiting to happen for sure.

Mom needs to divest entirely to get any form of aid. She's not willing to do that, trust me I have tried talking sense into her but she refuses. I've even offered to help her buy something that she could take a reverse mortgage on with say half the profits from the house which would give me enough cash to stabilize my situation and hers but that just makes too much sense. She said she'd consider moving when she turns 80 if her sister dies or goes into a nursing home which is one year away. Like I said before I think I am stuck until she is good and ready to move. Auntie fell and broke her hip and is in a rehab hospital right now so maybe she may never return and Mom might consider a move earlier but I'm not holding my breath.
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Old 09-06-2015, 12:04 PM   #26
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Given your back is a bit against the wall, you may want to consider getting a court directed division of the property with both of your mom and you on title. Not sure about your state's laws but legal aid attorney could advise.
Typically, when real estate is held by two or more parties and they can not agree on sale, court requires either one party to buy out the other or a sale, where funds are evenly divided.
While you would be giving up part of your equity, you would be freeing yourself on ongoing expenses for property taxes, insurance, and repairs plus getting the liquidity to pay off your credit card. Tough message to your Mom but it sounds like you have moved on.
Nwsteve
I've thought about that a few years ago and probably should have done it sooner but I'd hate to go to war with Mom at the end of her life. I do feel as if this was a divorce of sorts and I am the one who got the shaft. But she is my Mom after all and even if she doesn't consider my needs I still consider hers. I wish emotions weren't in the mix here but they are.

I created this mess by thinking I was doing the right thing in case I were to die so she would be taken care of. You kind of think like that when you work ICU nursing and see death every day. I really didn't look at the consequences had I not been able to work anymore since I had disability insurance. Never thought I would exhaust the policy. I never expected that. Just thought more along the lines of dying and the what ifs.
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Old 09-06-2015, 12:10 PM   #27
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I would not recommend you get into buying stocks in general, but as an alternative to real estate which requires lots of work and has high risk (imagine a tenant trashes your place, I've seen it happen to the tune of $30K).

I would only recommend Vanguard funds as the expenses are low, you never want to pay more than 0.30% management fee for a mutual fund.
They have funds and ETF's, either would be fine and I use both.
Some Vanguard ETF's are super low cost like VTI which is 0.05% annual fee.
They are at www.vanguard.com
Oh I had the nightmare tenant from hell already once.
I owned a duplex and they ran off the back tenant and then while I was evicting them they stole all the appliances and left the water on in the apartments so that everything flooded. They tore out the cabinets and wiring.
Cost me around $20K to fix everything.
Luckily I sold that property for a tiny profit despite all the headaches but after that I stopped owning in marginal neighborhoods. So yeah I get the it can happen to you. And this is a reason why I have not been too keen on renting out my paid off house. I put high end finishes in that house since it was mine and if it was ruined by a tenant would probably cost me more than $30K to repair even if I went with basics. Just don't want to risk it.

I'll have to check out Vanguard.
I know that I can self direct into some mutual funds with my state pension money but just haven't bothered to study it since I've been in a mental fog for a while. The easiest thing to do was the self balancing fund and it seemed to be doing okay until this last little crash. Luckily it will is ahead $10K over last years balance but that's only a 5% return where it was more on track to be 15%. But what can you do?
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Old 09-06-2015, 12:18 PM   #28
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Have you kept your RN current? I would suggest possibly supplementing your income with a PT or FT gig with either a large insurance company such as Aetna or Anthem, or a small boutique such as Emmi Solutions. They all have work at home jobs for RNs, care manager, wellness, chronic disease support and management, outreach, etc.
The company will set you up with the computer etc., and you work your hours and that's it.


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Old 09-06-2015, 12:26 PM   #29
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My business has not been profitable on paper but that's because I have reinvested the money to buy more inventory and equipment that I would need going forward. I've attended a lot of trade shows this past year to make contacts. I think I have enough inventory to double my gross and with not spending on inventory should be able to make more of a profit. My biggest expense is actually postage.
The mom situation is like a divorce settlement.
I say that I am paying her lifetime alimony and child support. LOL
This sounds like a rationalization to me. The business either cashflows or it doesn't. Sounds like it doesn't. That means your time is being put in for LESS than zero. If you turn a net profit - that's good... if you don't then it is time to relook at that.

As far as paying your mom 1099. I can see that - but that would be MORE cash going out... making the business even more negative.

As the details are coming out (vs the OP), your situation is looking less and less rosy. You have jointly titled assets (vs saying you owned them and no mention of your mother on the title). You have a partner (mom) who is uncooperative with selling, buying you out, or letting you withdraw your equity. Basically - it sounds like you need to get a job.

I understand you have medical issues - but there have to be some INCOME producing activities you can participate in. You say you want out of the medical field but I'm not sure you can be so choosy when it looks like you are spending more than you have coming in. I don't see any way around this unless you can make the ebay business profitable enough ON PAPER (and real life) to cover your expenses.

I know all this sounds harsh. But it sounds like you need a reality check.

Step one: Tear up the credit cards.
Step two: find cheaper insurance with the new year. Look into the ACA (Obamacare) insurance - it will likely be much cheaper than the $1100/month you're paying.
Step three - sell what you can to pay off debt.
Step four - find a way to make a profit in your business. It doesn't matter if you sell an item for $100 if your expenses to make and sell it are $101.... You need to cut costs in the products, or sell for higher prices.

I do wish you all the best. I was in over my head in my late 20's due to bad spending habits. The fear of losing my job (and having it all crash in on me when I wouldn't be able to service the debt) caused me a lot of angst. I was able to turn depression into resolve (with the help of some therapy, I'll admit) and pay off the debt and build my savings. But the first thing you have to do is make a realistic plan and work it without fail.
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Old 09-06-2015, 12:32 PM   #30
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Well it's both of ours on paper.
I purchased it with my credit and paid it off with profits from an apartment building that I sold at the height of the market here.
I also used some of those profits to buy the place where I live now which is a downtown condo. The prices are already past the pre-market crash so I'd hate to sell right at this moment since I see lots of foreign activity going on here.
Excuse me for asking, but why is her name on the paper? Doesn't that give her legal right to half of the property?
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Old 09-06-2015, 12:55 PM   #31
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Have you kept your RN current? I would suggest possibly supplementing your income with a PT or FT gig with either a large insurance company such as Aetna or Anthem, or a small boutique such as Emmi Solutions. They all have work at home jobs for RNs, care manager, wellness, chronic disease support and management, outreach, etc.
The company will set you up with the computer etc., and you work your hours and that's it.


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I No longer have my license.
In order to reinstate it now I'd have to go back and do a recertification internship which physically I just can no longer do.
Plus I take narcotics now for pain which would make me fail any employment screening tests.

I've done case management in the past part time for an insurance company and it was definitely not something I would go back to. You do have to meet quotas and I just do not feel that I can do that any longer.

I can totally understand the advice to just go back to what you know, but with all that has happened to me in the past 3 years I just have a different outlook on my 3rd age. I had a plan and worked hard at it for almost 30 years only to see the whole thing almost come crashing down.

I realize that I need to work, and I want to, but I don't want to work for anyone else. Online selling allows me to work when I can, whether that be at 2am because I cannot sleep or 5pm after I have taken my 2 hour nap. No medical employer will allow you that flexibility. And when I think I cannot keep up with shipping I just close my store for a few days until I feel better. I'm just sorry that I didn't put in more time and effort on ebay while I was working as I'd be in a totally different place right now cash flow wise.
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Old 09-06-2015, 01:01 PM   #32
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You sound like a good person being taken advantage of by less good people.

Find out if you can get legal aide or something to know what to do to cut off your mother, and make it stick. If she has little money, she will certainly qualify for housing aide, some of which is excellent.

Anyway, this is a lifeboat situation and your mother feels that she can bring along her lifetime accumulations at your risk.

When people treat you badly, they cancel your obligations to them.

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Old 09-06-2015, 01:09 PM   #33
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This sounds like a rationalization to me. The business either cashflows or it doesn't. Sounds like it doesn't. That means your time is being put in for LESS than zero. If you turn a net profit - that's good... if you don't then it is time to relook at that.

Well I could not allow it to cash flow because I was getting disability income from my insurance company. Call it working the system but I paid almost 30 years of premiums and needed that return on that investment for my future since I was too young to start cashing in all my retirement money and leaving myself penniless in my old age.


As far as paying your mom 1099. I can see that - but that would be MORE cash going out... making the business even more negative.

The reason why I'd do this is to let Mom see that there is no free lunch.
If she wants the help she's gotta do her part and paying her own taxes is part of her part. It's more of a psychological thing than reality I know but dealing with a 79 year old stubborn lady needs a little psychological manipulation
.

As the details are coming out (vs the OP), your situation is looking less and less rosy. You have jointly titled assets (vs saying you owned them and no mention of your mother on the title). You have a partner (mom) who is uncooperative with selling, buying you out, or letting you withdraw your equity. Basically - it sounds like you need to get a job.

I can appreciate that and I've hired myself. No job is really going to hire me given my physical limitations and age.


I understand you have medical issues - but there have to be some INCOME producing activities you can participate in. You say you want out of the medical field but I'm not sure you can be so choosy when it looks like you are spending more than you have coming in. I don't see any way around this unless you can make the ebay business profitable enough ON PAPER (and real life) to cover your expenses.

I know all this sounds harsh. But it sounds like you need a reality check.

Not harsh. I'm aware that my situation is not sustainable without a huge stroke of luck in my ebay business. If not then I will sell my home and just rent somewhere else cheaper until Mom passes away which admittedly may be after me at the rate I am going. LOL


Step one: Tear up the credit cards.
Step two: find cheaper insurance with the new year. Look into the ACA (Obamacare) insurance - it will likely be much cheaper than the $1100/month you're paying.

I am paying $500 now. It was only the first year that I was paying $1100 but since have switched to the cheaper plan. I had the more expensive plan while I was working so it had to continue for the first year until open enrollment so I could switch to the HMO. I live in FL and the ACA plans are horrible. I need medication coverage and I know $500 seems a lot but if I were to pay my own meds that would be more than $1500 a month right there. It's actually cheaper to pay the retirement insurance and pay $35 for medication copays than to try to go it with ACA and a piece meal plan. I am pretty much uninsurable. Our governor opted out of the exchanges so the plans are as much as regular insurance and cover nothing.


Step three - sell what you can to pay off debt.
Step four - find a way to make a profit in your business. It doesn't matter if you sell an item for $100 if your expenses to make and sell it are $101.... You need to cut costs in the products, or sell for higher prices.

I do wish you all the best. I was in over my head in my late 20's due to bad spending habits. The fear of losing my job (and having it all crash in on me when I wouldn't be able to service the debt) caused me a lot of angst. I was able to turn depression into resolve (with the help of some therapy, I'll admit) and pay off the debt and build my savings. But the first thing you have to do is make a realistic plan and work it without fail.
And you hit it on the head with the depression issue.
It was like I fell into a pit for 3 years and am just now scratching my way out.
Not only being sick but facing several surgeries in one year really took it's toll on me and I'm possibly facing another surgery if the pain management clinic cannot fix me. But I am optimistic as you can see that if I hang on long enough that the numbers will improve for me. They have to and if they don't then I will just move into my rental apartment, kick out the tenants and sell the house but that is totally my last resort as I don't want to live in the suburbs.
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Old 09-06-2015, 01:15 PM   #34
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Excuse me for asking, but why is her name on the paper? Doesn't that give her legal right to half of the property?
Yes it sure does give her all legal rights.
Her name is on the title because I felt like it was the right thing to do at the time since you just never know when you are going to die and didn't want her to have to deal with inheriting my assets.

I do not have any children and my heirs are just a niece and nephew.
I didn't want my brother to take control of everything and leave Mom with no way to take care of herself.

Never thought that plan would backfire but sad to say that a selfish elderly parent situation has done exactly that. When my Dad died, me being the oldest sort of assumed his position financially. She was more than happy to allow that to happen and she stopped working early on. I am a bit of a sucker with her and it's definitely been to my detriment.

Honestly it would have never been an issue if I was still working on that 30 year hospital pension plan and gotten my properties paid off by my true retirement age. Before all this happened I had no credit card debt at all. I always paid in full every month. Obviously I cannot do that anymore.
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Old 09-06-2015, 01:19 PM   #35
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You sound like a good person being taken advantage of by less good people.

Find out if you can get legal aide or something to know what to do to cut off your mother, and make it stick. If she has little money, she will certainly qualify for housing aide, some of which is excellent.

Anyway, this is a lifeboat situation and your mother feels that she can bring along her lifetime accumulations at your risk.

When people treat you badly, they cancel your obligations to them.

Ha
True assessment and to be honest with you I was blind until it was too late to undo this scenario.

At this point I just don't want to fight mom til death do us part.
I see this so much in other friends and family and although I am the one suffering on this I'd rather suck it up than wage an all out war on her.
Not that I haven't thought about it!
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Old 09-06-2015, 01:43 PM   #36
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With all due respect I've seen some excellent advice given, but each time you seem to come up with a reply as to why you cannot follow the particular suggestion. Maybe you should re-read and reconsider some of them?
On a practical side, there are attorneys who represent disability clients solely on contingency. I was one of those bad guys (I worked for an insurance company paying disability benefits) and handled appeals. If you tell me where you live, I can make some inquiries and maybe find a law firm to help you out.
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Old 09-06-2015, 02:31 PM   #37
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I echo Mustang's comments. Maybe also would be worthwhile for you to describe what YOU think is a workable plan for yourself is and search for comments from the group. Right now, your situation seems unworkable due to limitations you have on what you are willing to do. So unless your eBay work becomes extremely profitable, you seem to be headed to bankruptcy. Have you estimated how much income you could realistically expect from that work and if that's enough for your needs?



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Old 09-06-2015, 03:35 PM   #38
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I echo Mustang's comments. Maybe also would be worthwhile for you to describe what YOU think is a workable plan for yourself is and search for comments from the group. Right now, your situation seems unworkable due to limitations you have on what you are willing to do. So unless your eBay work becomes extremely profitable, you seem to be headed to bankruptcy. Have you estimated how much income you could realistically expect from that work and if that's enough for your needs?



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Apparently she thinks that buying More real estate is a good plan.

Getting Cash flow out of a self directed IRA
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Old 09-06-2015, 03:45 PM   #39
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With all due respect I've seen some excellent advice given, but each time you seem to come up with a reply as to why you cannot follow the particular suggestion. Maybe you should re-read and reconsider some of them?
On a practical side, there are attorneys who represent disability clients solely on contingency. I was one of those bad guys (I worked for an insurance company paying disability benefits) and handled appeals. If you tell me where you live, I can make some inquiries and maybe find a law firm to help you out.
It's not that I don't want to follow suggestions I have already thought of most of those suggestions on my own and even though they seem totally rational and to many I agree, I am stuck with another person's desires and control of my destiny to an extent. Especially when it comes to selling assets.

I live in Miami. I do have 6 months to appeal the insurance companies decision and am doing some further medical testing, but I still don't see how any of what they find would stop me from qualifying for a $10 an hour job. Dealing with the disability company has been just as stressful for me as has been dealing with my illnesses and I've got to start focusing on getting back to whatever will be my new normal life.

I realize now that I should have hired the attorney when I first went out on disability and I'd have my SSA by now. That is still pending so hopefully it will come thru. I did use the group that the insurance company suggested to do the SSA but of course they denied me the first time. SSA has called me several times so am hoping that it will eventually come thru and I can get some more cash flow. I'm 50 now so it looks like I move into the grid. My doctors have been bombarded with paperwork requests. We shall see.
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Old 09-06-2015, 03:53 PM   #40
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I echo Mustang's comments. Maybe also would be worthwhile for you to describe what YOU think is a workable plan for yourself is and search for comments from the group. Right now, your situation seems unworkable due to limitations you have on what you are willing to do. So unless your eBay work becomes extremely profitable, you seem to be headed to bankruptcy. Have you estimated how much income you could realistically expect from that work and if that's enough for your needs?



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My workable plan is online sales. I took this ebay gig from making 7K a year to 45K a year in two years. But I've had to hire people to do some things for me in the past but now that I'm getting out of my mental fog feel that I can do some of those things for myself.

I'm also a realtor too, but since I cannot drive much have not done much with it lately. I used to make 30K part time a year selling and renting real estate.
I mostly dealt with rental properties which is why I seem fixated on them to you guys. It's not that I am, it's just all that I have been comfortable with over the years. I've made most of money on real estate as opposed to mutual funds.

I no longer want to deal with tenants and toilets myself and have toyed with doing hard money lending. I'm a member of a local real estate investors club and they pay 10% a year for partnering up with their auction purchases. To me 10% isn't bad but I've not totally moved into being comfortable with the idea of risking the 200K I have just yet.
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