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Old 09-06-2015, 03:54 PM   #41
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Apparently she thinks that buying More real estate is a good plan.

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Old 09-06-2015, 04:06 PM   #42
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My workable plan is online sales. I took this ebay gig from making 7K a year to 45K a year in two years.
Clarification - you took it from 7k gross sales to 45k gross sales - but by your own admission have not turned a profit. If you don't turn a profit, you can't represent it (or plan on it) as income

Even the IRS has rules about "hobby jobs" - where if you never turn a profit in a period of time, they stop allowing business deductions. Be careful with this.
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Old 09-06-2015, 04:14 PM   #43
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Clarification - you took it from 7k gross sales to 45k gross sales - but by your own admission have not turned a profit. If you don't turn a profit, you can't represent it (or plan on it) as income

Even the IRS has rules about "hobby jobs" - where if you never turn a profit in a period of time, they stop allowing business deductions. Be careful with this.
Yes it was a hobby. I was just selling coupons at the time and it was only making $700 a month but ebay restricted coupon sales so I opened a corporation so I could buy from jewelry wholesalers.

Thanks for the warning on this. Do you know how many years it is they expect you to be profitable by? My accountant has warned me of this but said that if you are attempting to make a profit that it shouldn't be a problem. Maybe I need to research this further.
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Old 09-06-2015, 04:20 PM   #44
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Yes it was a hobby. I was just selling coupons at the time and it was only making $700 a month but ebay restricted coupon sales so I opened a corporation so I could buy from jewelry wholesalers.

Thanks for the warning on this. Do you know how many years it is they expect you to be profitable by? My accountant has warned me of this but said that if you are attempting to make a profit that it shouldn't be a problem. Maybe I need to research this further.
A 20 second google search provides this irs.gov link.
Business or Hobby? Answer Has Implications for Deductions
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Old 09-06-2015, 04:37 PM   #45
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A 20 second google search provides this irs.gov link.
Business or Hobby? Answer Has Implications for Deductions
Thanks I already googled it when mentioned.
I guess that's why the accountant said there was intent to make a profit.
I started the corporation for my real estate sales but when our market turned to a cash only market I DBA'd it to change to online sales instead. So although it's a new business it's an old corporation that had profits at one time.
Maybe I need to start a new corporation from scratch.
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Old 09-06-2015, 04:41 PM   #46
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Given your back is a bit against the wall, you may want to consider getting a court directed division of the property with both of your mom and you on title. Not sure about your state's laws but legal aid attorney could advise.
Typically, when real estate is held by two or more parties and they can not agree on sale, court requires either one party to buy out the other or a sale, where funds are evenly divided.
While you would be giving up part of your equity, you would be freeing yourself on ongoing expenses for property taxes, insurance, and repairs plus getting the liquidity to pay off your credit card. Tough message to your Mom but it sounds like you have moved on.
Nwsteve
I've thought about that a few years ago and probably should have done it sooner but I'd hate to go to war with Mom at the end of her life. I do feel as if this was a divorce of sorts and I am the one who got the shaft. But she is my Mom after all and even if she doesn't consider my needs I still consider hers. I wish emotions weren't in the mix here but they are.
I think nwsteve's suggestion is your best option to keep afloat. That's going to put you at loggerheads with your mom but it seems like in your case, you're going to have to choose between keeping your mom happy and risk destitution yourself, or considering your own welfare.
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Old 09-06-2015, 04:45 PM   #47
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eBay can be a great money maker but it can be a bit dangerous to rely on one online source for 100% of your income. They can kick you out for non compliance (fairly or not), raise their rates, a competitor can undercut you or 100 other things can make your income disappear overnight. It is tough to have to make fixed overhead payments like a mortgage on a variable income.

I am not sure from what you wrote so far you have enough money to support yourself much longer at your current burn rate let alone your mom without running completely out of money before too long. It is good to try to make more money but eBay is pretty competitive and you can't count on that idea to solve your financial issues, especially given your limited ability to work.

I think your first step should be lowering your overhead and talking to an elder care attorney and social worker. I agree with the other posters who suggested you get your mom out of the $375K house one way or another. She could live to be 100 and you would be broke before then. Maybe you could support her in a nice park model in a 55+ community or look into entitlement programs for whatever she can qualify for. You don't have to abandon her but the reality is when the main breadwinner in a family loses $100K type career expenses cannot remain the same. I have a friend of a friend who always found great places for his elderly mother to live and paid for by Medicaid or other types of entitlement programs. A lot of millionaire next door types live in houses that cost less than $375K.
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Old 09-06-2015, 05:11 PM   #48
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I agree with daylatedollarshort that you need to discuss this with an elder law attorney. Right now, with cash in the bank you have options. As the cash dwindles, so do your options. The two homes are simply not sustainable and eventually someone, either you and your mom or the bank will, after they foreclose. So you need to discuss with the elder law attorney how to make that sale happen.

Here is one site to find an attorney, or call the local bar association, or if you have an attorney ask for a referral.

ElderLawAnswers
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Old 09-06-2015, 05:22 PM   #49
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........ You don't have to abandon her but the reality is when the main breadwinner in a family loses $100K type career expenses cannot remain the same. ........
On airplanes, they tell you to put on your own oxygen mask first, then the kid's. That is because if you pass out, you can't help them later.
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Old 09-06-2015, 05:42 PM   #50
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As many other have noted, seeing an elder care attorney is important. How you handle the disposition of assets now may affect your mother's eligibility for benefits later. There is a 5 year look back period for Medicaid long-term care assistance.

Counties in Florida have a department on aging. You can contact them and you will be assigned a caseworker to help navigate the bureaucracy.

Does your mother understand that your situation is unsustainable? If YOU cannot convince her that it is, is there someone else (your brother, other family, friends) that could help her see the light and agree to let go of the real estate?

You WILL get through this.
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Old 09-06-2015, 06:02 PM   #51
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I think nwsteve's suggestion is your best option to keep afloat. That's going to put you at loggerheads with your mom but it seems like in your case, you're going to have to choose between keeping your mom happy and risk destitution yourself, or considering your own welfare.
In the Latin Immigrant community children are expected to take care of their parents at all costs. I am the daughter of a Latin Immigrant. I wish it were so easy to just do it the American way, I feel very American because I was born and raised in this country but traditions in our culture go deep on this subject.

The rational is that they sacrificed their lives to bring us here for a better life so we sort of owe it to them. I know that's a hard concept for most Americans to grasp but in essence I have to pay her back for my freedom so to speak.

And as a single lady even more so since I have no family obligations. So I have become the unofficial meal ticket. When I lived with my Mom which I did for 35 years she would ask me several times a year to turn over my paycheck to her as she had done with her parents. She felt she could manage the finances much better than I was since she saw me spending lots of money. Yes I did spend lots of money but I was also making lots and wanted to travel and have a nice car and home. But when I woke up and realized what I was doing it was too late. Our lives were too intertwined. She would be happy for me to move back in with her and that's always an option but in her mind she is the Queen Bee. I hope I am not sounding so selfish but at this stage of my life I do not want to fight with nor have to ask permission to live my life as I see fit. Single latin ladies must do as their parents see even if they are 80. It's a crazy culture.
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Old 09-06-2015, 06:12 PM   #52
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eBay can be a great money maker but it can be a bit dangerous to rely on one online source for 100% of your income. They can kick you out for non compliance (fairly or not), raise their rates, a competitor can undercut you or 100 other things can make your income disappear overnight. It is tough to have to make fixed overhead payments like a mortgage on a variable income.

I am not sure from what you wrote so far you have enough money to support yourself much longer at your current burn rate let alone your mom without running completely out of money before too long. It is good to try to make more money but eBay is pretty competitive and you can't count on that idea to solve your financial issues, especially given your limited ability to work.

I think your first step should be lowering your overhead and talking to an elder care attorney and social worker. I agree with the other posters who suggested you get your mom out of the $375K house one way or another. She could live to be 100 and you would be broke before then. Maybe you could support her in a nice park model in a 55+ community or look into entitlement programs for whatever she can qualify for. You don't have to abandon her but the reality is when the main breadwinner in a family loses $100K type career expenses cannot remain the same. I have a friend of a friend who always found great places for his elderly mother to live and paid for by Medicaid or other types of entitlement programs. A lot of millionaire next door types live in houses that cost less than $375K.
I know what you are saying about ebay as I am involved with several ebay groups on Facebook and it has happened to a few of them. Mostly over problems that could have been addressed in the categories that they are selling in. I doubt it would happen in the category I sell in since there are no brand names involved, it's all generic one of a kind for the most part merchandise because I and Mom make a lot of it. Many of the people you see losing their livelihood on ebay and Amazon is because they sold fakes without realizing it as some of the suppliers may have sold them counterfeit goods or they were just not practicing best business practices and not servicing their customers correctly. The majority of people that I know have been selling since the site began and have never had a problem with their accounts. But if it ever happened there are ways to get around that problem using stealth accounts. It's a pain in the butt but many have had to go that route since there is no other sales channel for the items they sell. Hopefully it will never come to that.

I'd say I have enough to sustain me for 6 months if my sales continue as they are and I am going into 4th quarter so that shouldn't be a problem until the end of the year in the least and possibly further along into the new year.

And Mom would never move to a mobile home. We don't even have many here anyway since they are dwindling due to hurricane codes. The option for her would be a condo in a senior community. We have lots of those but they are in the next county up and she would have to give up her medical clinic doctors and she's of course again not willing to do that. It's her medicare paid social club where she hangs out at the gym, takes computer classes, learns knitting, eats lunch and gets her toe nails done. Why would she give that up? They even have birthday parties and all sorts of other parties for their members. But you are right she could very well live to be 100 with that kind of health care. LOL
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Old 09-06-2015, 06:12 PM   #53
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I hope I am not sounding so selfish but at this stage of my life I do not want to fight with nor have to ask permission to live my life as I see fit. Single latin ladies must do as their parents see even if they are 80. It's a crazy culture.
You are not being selfish for wanting to live your own life. However, the culture, and how anyone feels about it, is not going to change the math.

Eventually and inevitably, sure as tomorrow's sunrise (although hopefully not quite so soon) one or both of the homes is going to be sold, either by you and your mom or the bank after it forecloses.

See the attorney. Perhaps he/she will come up with a workable solution or get your mom to understand that she cannot stay where she is.
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Old 09-06-2015, 06:23 PM   #54
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I agree with daylatedollarshort that you need to discuss this with an elder law attorney. Right now, with cash in the bank you have options. As the cash dwindles, so do your options. The two homes are simply not sustainable and eventually someone, either you and your mom or the bank will, after they foreclose. So you need to discuss with the elder law attorney how to make that sale happen.

Here is one site to find an attorney, or call the local bar association, or if you have an attorney ask for a referral.

ElderLawAnswers
Thanks for the link. Interesting reading.
I'm going to be busy.

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You are not being selfish for wanting to live your own life. However, the culture, and how anyone feels about it, is not going to change the math.

Eventually and inevitably, sure as tomorrow's sunrise (although hopefully not quite so soon) one or both of the homes is going to be sold, either by you and your mom or the bank after it forecloses.

See the attorney. Perhaps he/she will come up with a workable solution or get your mom to understand that she cannot stay where she is.
Oh I wouldn't let it get to that point.
If I had to I could rent out my place and just move to a cheaper place.
We could potentially drop the homeowners insurance again on the house although I agree that's extremely risky but we didn't have it for 5 years while Mom controlled her own finances.

I still can take that 457 money out and kick this can down the road.
Hopefully ebay will pick up by then and all my hard work pays off but so much is out of my full control.
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Old 09-06-2015, 06:25 PM   #55
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On airplanes, they tell you to put on your own oxygen mask first, then the kid's. That is because if you pass out, you can't help them later.
LOL. I am certainly the parent now in this situation, but this kid is a total brat and is having a temper tantrum every time the subject is brought up.
I know it's a cop out but right now it's hard for me to deal with her and all my own personal health issues at the same time.
I just don't have it in me anymore.
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Old 09-06-2015, 06:33 PM   #56
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As many other have noted, seeing an elder care attorney is important. How you handle the disposition of assets now may affect your mother's eligibility for benefits later. There is a 5 year look back period for Medicaid long-term care assistance.

Counties in Florida have a department on aging. You can contact them and you will be assigned a caseworker to help navigate the bureaucracy.

Does your mother understand that your situation is unsustainable? If YOU cannot convince her that it is, is there someone else (your brother, other family, friends) that could help her see the light and agree to let go of the real estate?

You WILL get through this.
My Dad was a veteran so I believe she would qualify for VA assistance if she became disabled. I've vaguely looked into it but by getting her the $2K a month assistance and having the county waive the property taxes I think if she was to become disabled I'd actually be better off than I am now. LOL.

Right now her sister my 89 year old Auntie fell and broke her hip. She is in a rehab hospital right now and she owns no home since she was living with Mom. She gets a little more in SS than Mom and gets a small mortgage. I don't really have much faith that she will be walking again though. I'm going to see how it plays out with her and going to a permanent nursing home situation. I'm hoping that once Mom sees how well she does without any assets that she will understand that having paper assets is of no use to her if she's in need of care.
Although I am a nurse I have told her that I cannot and will not be able to take care of her if something happens to her. I've also told her to do the same with me should I become incapacitated and just put me out to pasture too.

That 5 year look back from what I understand can be taken care of by a lawyer with a Lady Bird deed. My sister in law had to do that with her Mother who was on dialysis and blind in the end of her years and when she died they were able to sell the home without a problem of the nursing home getting everything.
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Old 09-06-2015, 06:56 PM   #57
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And Mom would never move to a mobile home. We don't even have many here anyway since they are dwindling due to hurricane codes. The option for her would be a condo in a senior community. We have lots of those but they are in the next county up and she would have to give up her medical clinic doctors and she's of course again not willing to do that. It's her medicare paid social club where she hangs out at the gym, takes computer classes, learns knitting, eats lunch and gets her toe nails done. Why would she give that up? They even have birthday parties and all sorts of other parties for their members. But you are right she could very well live to be 100 with that kind of health care. LOL
As Walt said, there is your culture, and there is what your mom is willing or not willing to do, there's you not wanting to live with your mom and then there's math. Math always wins out in the end.
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Old 09-06-2015, 08:33 PM   #58
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In the Latin Immigrant community children are expected to take care of their parents at all costs. I am the daughter of a Latin Immigrant. I wish it were so easy to just do it the American way, I feel very American because I was born and raised in this country but traditions in our culture go deep on this subject.

The rational is that they sacrificed their lives to bring us here for a better life so we sort of owe it to them. I know that's a hard concept for most Americans to grasp but in essence I have to pay her back for my freedom so to speak.

And as a single lady even more so since I have no family obligations. So I have become the unofficial meal ticket. When I lived with my Mom which I did for 35 years she would ask me several times a year to turn over my paycheck to her as she had done with her parents. She felt she could manage the finances much better than I was since she saw me spending lots of money. Yes I did spend lots of money but I was also making lots and wanted to travel and have a nice car and home. But when I woke up and realized what I was doing it was too late. Our lives were too intertwined. She would be happy for me to move back in with her and that's always an option but in her mind she is the Queen Bee. I hope I am not sounding so selfish but at this stage of my life I do not want to fight with nor have to ask permission to live my life as I see fit. Single latin ladies must do as their parents see even if they are 80. It's a crazy culture.
I'm Asian and grew up in the Philippines. The cultural norms are actually pretty similar.

Prior to my maternal grandmother's death, my mom was sending her money every month and helped her with unexpected hospital bills. She was living independently in a condo but after her last hospitalization and needing 24/7 care, we convinced her to live with my aunt so my aunt can have greater oversight on her care and expenses. I also send my paternal grandmother money every month to pay for her meds so I know about being obligated to help your elders.

And yes, I actually still live with my parents. My mom and I are the primary breadwinners in the family. I expect that to continue even after I retire so I'm taking measures now to ensure I can continue helping support them. It's a good thing I don't plan on getting married.

That said, I don't cede my entire paycheck to her although I do give her more than half of my take-home pay apart from paying for utilities and vehicle expenses. Admittedly, mom is much, much more frugal than I so savings rate will likely be a lot higher if I let her manage my money. Alas, she's also extremely risk averse so long run, inflation will probably eat away at the savings so I manage her 457 investments.

I really hope you're successful in your ebay business. However, I have to say your current situation makes me nervous.
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Old 09-06-2015, 10:37 PM   #59
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My workable plan is online sales. I took this ebay gig from making 7K a year to 45K a year in two years.......

I'm also a realtor too, but since I cannot drive much have not done much with it lately..........have toyed with doing hard money lending. I'm a member of a local real estate investors club and they pay 10% a year for partnering up with their auction purchases.
(1) If all went well with your online sales - what do you think your yearly profit (not gross) could be given your current time / ability to work?

(2) I'd be very reluctant to further real estate investment unless it is sure to provide a steady income with little risk of needing large amounts of cash to fix issues in the properties.....I'm not into real estate so you probably have a much better feel for this... but I haven't got the feeling that is typical situation for new investments.

I really hope all works out well for you but, as others have said, your situation looks very concerning to me. Hopefully some of the posted comments/ideas will be helpful.
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Old 09-06-2015, 11:52 PM   #60
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Thanks for the link. Interesting reading.
I'm going to be busy.



Oh I wouldn't let it get to that point.
If I had to I could rent out my place and just move to a cheaper place.
We could potentially drop the homeowners insurance again on the house although I agree that's extremely risky but we didn't have it for 5 years while Mom controlled her own finances.

I still can take that 457 money out and kick this can down the road.
Hopefully ebay will pick up by then and all my hard work pays off but so much is out of my full control.
All of these answers are terrible choices that you are thinking are answers because they are quick, easy and you don't see the Bigger problem they create.
You rent out your place and move to a cheaper place (by the time you subtract your rent from the other costs of your place you are still losing money each month and now risk of damage by tenants.)

Drop homeowners insurance - nice that you skipped by earlier for 5 years, but it just takes 1 hurricane to destroy the house and you lose everything.

Take out 457 money, you possibly pay penalty, no longer have the savings, and then go bankrupt and end up with nothing. By keeping your money within Retirement accounts it is sheltered from bankruptcy (which is where you are headed).
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