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sales guys/gals at the end of the line--thoughts?
Old 04-26-2017, 07:33 AM   #1
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sales guys/gals at the end of the line--thoughts?

Trying to decide if another change is worth the effort given the short time left. I'm currently in a countdown mode with an arbitrarily 2020 completely done date. Working through my first 6 months of trial budget, and doing pretty good, excluding infrequent and discretionary expenses (cars, vacations, tuition etc). The trial is at $5K a month and includes a $2700 mortgage. Gross income is very high in comparison.

My current income source is from an extremely unstable company, and it has me worrying that it can end at any moment and for any reason. The current dilemma I'm facing is should I just continue to ride this horse, and let the path it takes determine my fate? If the old nag fails to get me to the finish line scramble to find another ride for a few more years? Or should I take the time and effort and start looking for another ride?

Some background: Just got back from a short 1 week vacation which was out of country. So the normal "vacation" checking of e-mails and returning phone calls wasn't working real well. The demands for updates began about the 4th day, and even when saying I was away on holiday didn't stop until the second day upon returning.

Now I'm on my 3rd day back and my requests back to management for action items are being ignored. THEY ARE ON THE SAME ACCOUNTS THEY WERE ASKING FOR ACTION. So as many in the sales game understand management in action can kill more deals than you can win by proactive activity on your own. This is filling my BS bucket to the brim, and if I wasn't close to the end would definitely have me looking to jump ship.

Given my advanced age, and desire not to become an employee, switching horses is very difficult. I believe that I can muddle through even if the income source is lost and a replacement isn't found, though it would mean for the first time in many years having to cut back back my lifestyle. I'm leaning towards sticking it out as long as possible, and let the old nag die under my weight, but seek the guidance and wisdom of others.

I guess the positive thing is I no longer feel like I want to do 1 more big thing in my career.
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Old 04-26-2017, 08:37 AM   #2
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I'm leaning towards sticking it out as long as possible, and let the old nag die under my weight, but seek the guidance and wisdom of others.
I would ride it out.

I am not in sales, but I can tell you that finding a job when you are 50+ is very difficult 10x.

Jobs in my field is scarce in NJ as manufacturing has moved overseas and the only ones available are those that are contract and require a 90-minute commute one-way.

I have been also looking for "minimum wage" job as well, and that has not been going well either. I just was on an interview yesterday, and as soon as the hiring manager saw me and learned that I had a B.S. she immediately became disinterested.
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Old 04-26-2017, 09:31 AM   #3
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I'd ride it out but not let the stress get to me. Just do things the way you think they should be done and let others yell. The worst that could happen is they let you go early and you trim your lifestyle unless you can find another job.

Another option is to apply for other jobs in your spare time and go interview if anything looks promising. May find a surprize, who knows. Late in my career, I might consider part time jobs as well as full time. Less stress and a nice transition to future retirement.
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Old 04-26-2017, 09:42 AM   #4
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I don't necessarily buy into the concept that the 50+ crowd should have a hard time finding work. In the sales business, depending on the type of sales and the industry you work in, having long term relationships with customers can be worth its weight in gold. Newcomers have to break into the industry and gain credibility with people who they have never met with previously.

There are of course many variables here. Depending on the type of product or service you are selling, how well established your company is, and how much competition you have, it may or may not be valuable to bring a book of business with you. In my industry, I would never hire someone young to do sales because they would have no credibility with our clients. Having a few gray hairs is always valued here.

My other thought on the 50+ issue is that people who are very good at what they do generally are sought after by many employers and rarely have to work hard to find a new job. For those who are average or just mediocre, the 50+ factor can certainly make it more difficult to seek new employment.

I have no idea how "good" the OP is at sales. They would know best how practical seeking new employment might be. But if the company they are working for is a sinking ship, I would imagine that it could be difficult to continue to sustain a high sales volume there and it may be time to move on.
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Old 04-26-2017, 10:19 AM   #5
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If you can ER, you should. I had a 2020 plan too, and moved it up to 2014 because we could. I haven't regretted it for a second.

I also belatedly realized that we didn't need our net worth to keep increasing until we die. We needed to move from a smart savings mentality to a smart spending mentality and had always planned using our retirement assets as though we'd live forever. We have a ton of retirement savings and rental real estate assets we are planning on leaving behind to family members in our trust - we have no children of our own - and at some point we always could, if needed, start to liquidate our retirement assets and use them for ourselves. Doh!

When I looked at how even a modest annual distribution impacted our retirement income, it made a big difference in monthly income without really changing anything other than how much cash ended up in our trust.

If you really need to keep w**king, and can cultivate new opportunities that don't require you to start over in a new industry, why not look around while you're working? It's usually easier than when you're unemployed. You said this company was sketchy - it sounds like it - and if you are a high producing, well-networked salesman, age isn't important, only results.

Good luck with your plans!
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Old 04-26-2017, 10:25 AM   #6
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I would mentally give them my middle finger then carry on. Don't let it stress you.
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Old 04-26-2017, 10:44 AM   #7
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I don't necessarily buy into the concept that the 50+ crowd should have a hard time finding work.
If you have tried looking for a job at age 50+, try it now. And do it without using your contacts.
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sales guys/gals at the end of the line--thoughts?
Old 04-26-2017, 03:47 PM   #8
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sales guys/gals at the end of the line--thoughts?

I think the answer lies in whether your assets could sustain s $5,000/mo withdrawal now, without exceeding a SWR of say 3.5%, or if you would need 3 more years of saving at your current rate in order to reach that $5,000/month withdrawal.

Other factors to consider are HI costs after retirement, downsizing and/or moving to a lower cost of livivg area, necessary large purchases in your future, such as a new roof, auto, major repairs, etc. In other words how much wiggle room do you need? If you could make it work now, I'd stay with the current unstable job as long as you can, knowing that you are basically FI now. Having that knowledge may well increase your tolerance levels.
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Old 04-26-2017, 06:24 PM   #9
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I would mentally give them my middle finger then carry on. Don't let it stress you.
Love your thought process.

Been stressing a customer quality issue on and off since January. Right guy at the company solved it in 2 minutes to the customers satisfaction. I spent many hours this week alone trying to get the two minutes.

This is what I mean about unstable situation. Even looping him and the national sales manager in didn't get the job done. 4:45 he was answering questions through my CSR, and said he would take a call. 5:08 action plan established, and 90% confidence it will solve a multi year intermittent issue.

50+ job hunting. Fortunately still under 50, but I can tell you job hunting is a hell of lot harder then selling. Even with this half arse company I built about a 1.4 million pipe line (almost the same as the book i started with) in 16 months from their leads.

Hunted for jobs 3 times since college. NEVER EVER WAS IT EASY! The last hunt was a total buzz kill! I had gone from rocking the world to zero in 60 seconds flat.
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Old 04-26-2017, 06:50 PM   #10
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I think the answer lies in whether your assets could sustain s $5,000/mo withdrawal now, without exceeding a SWR of say 3.5%, or if you would need 3 more years of saving at your current rate in order to reach that $5,000/month withdrawal.
90% confidence level I could have the income go to zero and make it through by moving assets to income. It would be an uncomfortable few years until January 2020 when an annuity kicks in, but we could make it work. It also might delay my wife's departure date, until the kids are out of college. Pushing the start of our next chapter in life into 2022 as opposed to September 2019.

I guess one way to put it is I would rather cut my lifestyle, than take a job that only netted $5K after tax, given the stress and demands of the job.

Probably the only real concern is college for the kids. Facing over $140K+++ over the next 5 years, while carrying everything else makes me want to capture the final $$$. Given 1/3 to taxes, 1/3 to the college, and 1/3 to live on, you can see how I can muddle through if needed. Losing the drop will cut 1/3 off the top.
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Old 05-01-2017, 07:53 AM   #11
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I don't necessarily buy into the concept that the 50+ crowd should have a hard time finding work. In the sales business, depending on the type of sales and the industry you work in, having long term relationships with customers can be worth its weight in gold. Newcomers have to break into the industry and gain credibility with people who they have never met with previously.
Tell that to Willy Loman.
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