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Old 03-31-2008, 06:22 AM   #21
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my net worth is substantial,
We were hoping a planner could handle numbers. What is substantial? 10K or 6M?
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Old 03-31-2008, 08:45 AM   #22
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All very good points about the Life insurance. I was merely answer a question based on the the information in the question. Although, I would venture to say, the individuals who realized such a small return were not in DIVIDEND PAYING, WHOLE LIFE Insurance form a Mutual Company (not a Stock Company). I provide my clients with documentation
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Old 03-31-2008, 09:25 AM   #23
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I would venture to say those of you who realized such small returns in your policies will never understand how to competely formulate a true finacial plan. I would also make the statement, you probably did not read the question that was asked to me. I answered the question based on the information provided. Those of you who stated the negatives are not talking about true DIVIDEND PAYING WHOLE LIFE INSURANCE from a MUTUAL COMPANY, sounds to me as though you were not in a whole life policy. I do not beleive in life insurance as the star of a financial plan, you all made that assumption on your own. I use a Macro Economic approach in my planning, which incorporates the basic economic principals of always get more back than the dollar you put forth, and always try to avoid irrevocable transfers of wealth. If you are as smart as you think (or present to the world), you would not have implemented such a policy to earn 9 basis points, nor would you be able to factor in commission as a cost to the policy holder, as the commission is not taken directly from the plolicy performance. Also 4.9% return before taxes put you behind inflation, I hope you feel good about that. I manage money first and foremost for my clients, I have taken the time to understand how life insurance IS AN ASSET ON YOUR PERSONAL BALANCE SHEET. Do you have a PERSONAL BALANCE SHEET? I would say maybe ONE percent of individuals have a Personal Balance SHeet, if you do not, there is no way you can understand how all the financial decision you are faced with are highly correlated. If you can not understand these basic points you have a great deal of work to do. If you are not in the business of Financial Planner, then you are exaclty like a wine expert,... you just have an opinion. I submit that Opinion Based Planning is not in any persons best interest. If this site is opinion based, no one will acheive anythng. As far the 2 week bet goes, I will take you up on that, what kind of planner would I be if I gave up on educating everyone that needs helps, or has a question.
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Old 03-31-2008, 09:27 AM   #24
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Welcome to the forum and thanks for your offer of possible financial assistance.,You may be noticing that people take their money very seriously around here which may account for the baptism of fire, cynicism and sarcasm instead of the normal polite welcome.I admire your coolness under pressure.Lets hope some good advice will be upcoming in the future because people here really take their money very very seriously.
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Old 03-31-2008, 09:40 AM   #25
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Old 03-31-2008, 09:40 AM   #26
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jambo101, thank you for the perspective. This my first go at a site like this, and I know in my heart and mind I can be of some help to everyone I speak too, just as I learn from those who speak to me. The "baptism by fire" comment was very accurate, and I too understand money and people are sensitive and serious. I look forward to future lamb-bastings!! I am confident in my work, but make no mistakes, there a lot of bad planners out there and I understand, advise is not always taken favorably.
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Old 03-31-2008, 09:51 AM   #27
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Paul:

Thanks for trying to help out. We can always use valid wisdom in optimizing our financial picture. That's why most of us are here.

You stated in your OP however:

1 - "Every person (and their financial viewpoint) is different. Not earth shattering news, I'm sure, but basic beginning point! If there was one product, or one way, it would be easy to be a planner. There is no one single solution, nor is there one book, or concept that can fit perfectly into all plans."

2 - You then blanket answered that Whole Life was an optimal investment "based on the information provided".

It seems the you started out here with philosophies that contradict each other.

Don't be too surprised at the negative reactions....Right or wrong, credibility continues to be something your profession struggles with.
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Old 03-31-2008, 09:53 AM   #28
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PaulK....

Most on this board are not your normal distribution of people in general... some here have done very well and can probably plan better than you...

You read a few who had a life insurance policy that did bad and then talk about how 'bad' they are, but more than likely it was a 'financial planner' who got them into it... I know that is what happened to me 30 years ago.... but I got wise in 2 years and got out..

Show some real life examples... so far all I read from you is a sales pitch... and my dad was a great salesman so I know one when I hear one...

But..... it will be wasted on me.... and probably others as no matter what you can come up with, the cost and fees 'more than likely' is HIGH. .... if I am wrong, tell me what it is?

And what is the 1, 5, and 10 year return on some of your clients... or do you have any that have been in it 10 years?
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Old 03-31-2008, 10:01 AM   #29
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If you are not in the business of Financial Planner, then you are exaclty like a wine expert,... you just have an opinion.
Spelling, grammar and punctuation errors aside, you are saying that no one but a FP is an "expert" in financial planning? If so, that is a very bold and challenging statement to put forth on a personal finance forum filled with very successful DIY types.

I predict you, like 90+% of the other FPs and insurance salesmen who have shown up here with an air of superiority to sell your services "help", will have a short and bumpy experience. The few FPs who have hung around had two characteristics: they tried to understand the culture of the board before wading in to "help" and they had a sense of humor. At this point I'd say you were short in both areas.
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Old 03-31-2008, 10:03 AM   #30
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Wow how did I miss this gem of the thread!
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Old 03-31-2008, 10:05 AM   #31
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jambo101, thank you for the perspective. This my first go at a site like this, and I know in my heart and mind I can be of some help to everyone I speak too, just as I learn from those who speak to me. The "baptism by fire" comment was very accurate, and I too understand money and people are sensitive and serious. I look forward to future lamb-bastings!! I am confident in my work, but make no mistakes, there a lot of bad planners out there and I understand, advise is not always taken favorably.
I am not inclined to take 'advice' from someone who can't even spell it.
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Old 03-31-2008, 11:13 AM   #32
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REWahoo, my spelling, grammer and punctuation, do fall short and it is something I work on. I would say the shortest thing on this thread is you!
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Old 03-31-2008, 11:19 AM   #33
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REWahoo, my spelling, grammer and punctuation, do fall short and it is something I work on. I would say the shortest thing on this thread is you!
The correct spelling is grammar, but as long as you are working on it....

And as to my "shortness", I'll have you know I can dance with the same girls as you. I may not be able to look around much when I do, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.
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Old 03-31-2008, 11:22 AM   #34
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IJUBA, I understand your view of my answer (which is not popular at all), and I have no issues with disagreement, as there is no on right answer for all questions. However, there are corect answers for questions with limited information avaiable at the time of the occurance. As I mentined before, Life Insurance is not the backbone of my practice, it has certain and possibly limited applications, and it should not be discounted as a solution, and certainly should be examined as ONE option to consider when examining complete financial planning.
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Old 03-31-2008, 11:25 AM   #35
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I will never spell grammer with an "e" again, thanks for the help, and a big thanks for that "dancing" mental picture!! That came through loud and clear! LOL
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Old 03-31-2008, 11:29 AM   #36
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Sounds to me like either completely articulate a situation to which whole life insurance is the financial answer - with historical data - or admit it is not an astute investment.
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Old 03-31-2008, 11:35 AM   #37
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Texas Proud, in a previous message I mentioned this is my first go at any time of online discussion. I am not a "Salesguy", I know this as I used to be one a long time ago in the Data Communications world. I got in to this business, as a number of years ago, I lost EVERYTHING I had worked for. It was my fault, I promised my self to learn the business, and then try to listen and help, yes HELP others. I am not above it all, I do not feel superior to anyone. I am confident in my knowledge and my abilities. It will take time for evreyone here to understand me, some will never, that is OK! One can only be guided their lifes past experiences to navigate the future.
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Old 03-31-2008, 11:40 AM   #38
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Thank you for the kind offer of FP services, but I already have a FP. Me.

I get a 100% COLA'd check every month. I have medical, dental, prescription, vision coverage for 30% of the group premium, for life, this becomes secondary to Medicare at 65.

We have zero debt and some bones in the bank/investments. It's not enough to buy a private intercontinental jet, but I think we'll manage.

What, me worry?
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Old 03-31-2008, 11:46 AM   #39
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I am not a "Salesguy", I know this as I used to be one a long time ago in the Data Communications world.
For your own benefit you should probably get off here and start dialing for leads. People here won't even buy new clothes; do you think there is any chance we might buy something from you? Even if you are the smartest financial product salesman in the world. There are way greener pastures.

Ha
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Old 03-31-2008, 11:56 AM   #40
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retire48in2008, Whole Life is includable in a complete financial plan. Breifly, as a begining to your question, here are 16 reason which WL provides, and NO other vehilce completely provides; (some are obvious) Premature Death Benefit, Disabilty Payout, Protection from Creditors, Increasing Death Benefit, Builds Net Worth, Generates a Conservative Rate of Return, Minimal Risk, Liquidity, Tax Advantage accumulation, Alternate Credit Source, Tax Advantage Withdrawals, Income Tax Free at Death, Form of Saving, Systematic, Flexible Funding Options, Flexible Distribution Options. Make NO mistake, I am not stating to use WL as your only planning tool. It is used to provide peace of mind, while contributing to your entire portfolio on a limited percentage of your entire portfolio, while avoiding an irrevocable transfer of wealth, which Term insurance clearly can not accomplish.
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