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Re: Suffering from Burnout - Can I FIRE?
Old 04-19-2006, 02:13 AM   #21
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Re: Suffering from Burnout - Can I FIRE?

It's kind of interesting that my son's old pshchiatrist (we've still been seeing him even though my son has gone off the deep end IQ 150 living homeless on the streets in downtown Portland) advice is that since we've got the means, the very worst case scenerio is that I take a few years off and if I get bored with the recording studio or teaching, I can always go back to work at a lower stresss position.

What I want to do is to teach part time (my father was a University Professor) and to continue to do "charity studiot and record label" i.e. give talented people access to Professional recording who despite their immesne artistic gifts have been unable to make a dime even if given 2 nickles. If I make health insurance money from teaching and break even from the studio I'll be an extremely happy camper.

Actually what I really want is to do whatever it takes to stop having daily stress-tension headaches and high blood pressure. I don;t get headaches when I'm not at work and I start getting them the second day back to work. Same pattern for the last 8 years. It's getting very old/

Thanks,

Bob
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Re: Suffering from Burnout - Can I FIRE?
Old 04-19-2006, 08:04 PM   #22
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Re: Suffering from Burnout - Can I FIRE?

Bob,
I think you've done all the planning you need to at this point. Time to make a change! You've got a great vision for what you'd do in ER. And maybe there would be more time to reach out to your son -- it must be a terrible burden for you, and although I am sure you have done everything imaginable to help him already, ER is bound to give you time and energy which might suggest some new approach or possibility.

Good luck with your decision. I remember the headaches, too. Haven't had any in a long time.
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Re: Suffering from Burnout - Can I FIRE?
Old 04-20-2006, 11:36 AM   #23
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Re: Suffering from Burnout - Can I FIRE?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluehero
It's kind of interesting that my son's old pshchiatrist (we've still been seeing him even though my son has gone off the deep end IQ 150 living homeless on the streets in downtown Portland) advice is that since we've got the means, the very worst case scenerio is that I take a few years off and if I get bored with the recording studio or teaching, I can always go back to work at a lower stresss position.
Blue, I think that perhaps the trouble with your son is getting to you, perhaps subconsciously you are bothered by the thought of your son being homeless and in trouble.

I have a similar situation, son is 27, but the freakin mind of a 15 year old, takes his frustrations out on wife and myself, we pay his rent, he is going for his masters in history to teach, but can't control or figure out his spending.

We threw him out of house when he was 21 for being too violent.

Both wife and myself are burned out from his abuse, among other abusive people at family and work, have a bit less than you in assets, but are looking to break away from everyone and everything and just live like there is no tomorrow.

So I think that perhaps what you experiencing with your son, combined with the corporate BS among other things is causing your headaches.

However, you are in my opinion in good shape to ER.

jug

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Re: Suffering from Burnout - Can I FIRE?
Old 04-20-2006, 11:47 PM   #24
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Re: Suffering from Burnout - Can I FIRE?

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Originally Posted by bluehero
I already own all the toys I need ( and my wife would say many more than I need),* Do I have enough, given some restraint and proper financanical management) to leave the stress of the corporate world behind?
Blue,

I myself walked away from corporate world upper mgt 10 days ago.

Thoughts of ER have been languishing in my mind these past 2-3 yrs but my point-of-inflection came in a 6.30pm high level project management meeting three mths ago involving 20 stressed-out, miserable grown men/women with nothing in common and bent on either being/looking important or in the process of launching sick pseudo-corporate cynisms against each other or, for those at the receiving end, busily deflecting these BS attacks with even bigger BS's .....* wow, the flashback is making me sick ......

So there I was sitting on the edge of my connolly leather chair in the wood-panelled boardroom looking out the window at the clear late afternoon sky and I began to truly wonder .... "what on earth am I doing here?" "Who are these wretched people in their ostentatious suits and skirts and cufflinks and rolexes and toupees and bad hairdos?" "Everyone in this room is obviously suffering from job stress ("sell more, sell more; build more, build more; get more, get more; .... ), sleep/s*x deprivation, hates each others' guts, have zero real interest in the issues discussed, has zero tolerance for anything and overreacts over trivial matters, and basically are destroying their very life and soul as they put up with yet another day of this ...."

While sandwiched between the SVP Sales and the Group CTO (essentially two toxic a**h****) arguing over issues of even less relevance, I did the umpteenth SWR calcs on my laptop (... yup, camouflaged by my sporadic "ah ha" and "uh umm" and "gee whizz" utterances at whatever was deliberated) and determined that I won't be living on tapioca and salted fish if I ER'd right there and then. I said "bingo," got up, excused myself, drove out of the 50 storey corp. HQ and took leave for three days.* Came back on Monday and negotiated a severance package and said adios on April 10.

Still early days, but I think this must be one of my best (... and potentially life saving) decisions I've ever made.* * I'm free, happy, relaxed, and the feeling of being unencumbered by other humans for the sake of a paycheck is priceless.*

Nowadays, my only memory of MegaCorp seems to be "how the heck did I tolerated the powder-keg profit-worshipping environment and those sad, sad people for soooo loooooong" I still have access to my executive parking lot, two luxurious office suites in two different subsidiaries with secretaries and a coterie of courtiers until mid-July but (... to my own amazement) I don't miss the office or the perks or the status even one bit. I've not set foot in the building, let alone my office, since that fateful April 10. I've not even bothered to pack up my stuff. Of course, lazying in my back patio sipping pinata colada between bouts of gardening and goofing off sure beats driving 50km downtown to get to the office.

My advise: sometimes you just have to let go and traverse in semi-unchartered waters to find true happiness and peace of mind. And your million plus portfolio should make this process easier than the majority out there.

Good luck.






* *
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Re: Suffering from Burnout - Can I FIRE?
Old 04-21-2006, 12:20 AM   #25
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Re: Suffering from Burnout - Can I FIRE?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Under FIRE
I myself walked away from corporate world upper mgt 10 days ago.
Looks like a "Best Of..." post to me!
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Re: Suffering from Burnout - Can I FIRE?
Old 04-21-2006, 12:39 AM   #26
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Re: Suffering from Burnout - Can I FIRE?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
Looks like a "Best Of..." post to me!
Seconded!

FWIW, I made my ER decision in the spring and arranged my exit for June of that fateful year. It was looking out the window that did it for me, too. Nothing lets you feel the full weight of the BS bucket like a beautful spring day.
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Re: Suffering from Burnout - Can I FIRE?
Old 04-21-2006, 06:56 AM   #27
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Re: Suffering from Burnout - Can I FIRE?

Wow! Awesome post. Wonder why the a**h***s never have an epiphany and quit?!
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Re: Suffering from Burnout - Can I FIRE?
Old 04-21-2006, 07:35 AM   #28
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Re: Suffering from Burnout - Can I FIRE?

Under Fire --
This is literature! I especially loved the part about doing the calcs under the table and literally getting up and leaving the toxic waste dump in mid-meeting. Priceless.!

Welcome to the Board -- we're the Survivors, btw. In the game of life, the people who _leave_ the island are the winners...
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Re: Suffering from Burnout - Can I FIRE?
Old 04-21-2006, 08:46 AM   #29
 
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Re: Suffering from Burnout - Can I FIRE?

BlueHero,

Know that if you want to, you can retire right now. Just knowing that should help the stress a little, right?

I'd go further and say that with your budding anti-consumerism feelings, you could reduce your living expenses, and retire with no worries. Perhaps the alternative is a heart attack.

So, I'd say... let's see, what are the words I'm looking for? Oh yeah: Groovy, man, go for it.
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Re: Suffering from Burnout - Can I FIRE?
Old 04-21-2006, 09:02 AM   #30
 
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Re: Suffering from Burnout - Can I FIRE?

P.S. Nice studio, like the HooDoo tracks. Sounds like you have things to keep you busy and happy in retirement. Do you know Dave Fleschner?
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Re: Suffering from Burnout - Can I FIRE?
Old 04-21-2006, 10:39 PM   #31
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Re: Suffering from Burnout - Can I FIRE?

Under fire - Wow! can I relate to

"a 6.30pm high level project management meeting three mths ago involving 20 stressed-out, miserable grown men/women with nothing in common and bent on either being/looking important or in the process of launching sick pseudo-corporate cynisms against each other or, for those at the receiving end, busily deflecting these BS attacks with even bigger BS's ...."

The combination of the stress of the issue with my son, while less than they were a year ago, and the stressess at work are just pushing me over the edge. I can;t handle hte daily headaches anymore (did I mention thta they compeltly disappeared during my 3 month sabatical I took last summer?)

I am going to spend the weekend composing my retirement letter. I have June 6th as a target date I find date of the liberation of Europe from tyrany to have an appealing parrallel. (and I have a large bonus tied to me being an employee on June 1 :-)

I want to thank everyone for ht esupport you've show in helping me clarify my feelings and make a decision that I knew had to be made.

TromboneAl- It's a whole lot nicer now. I havn't had time to update the site in a long time. We have 3 albums in production now. They'll get done a whole lot faster when I can atcually have time to play with them :-)

Best regards,

Bob



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Re: Suffering from Burnout - Can I FIRE?
Old 04-22-2006, 07:37 AM   #32
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Re: Suffering from Burnout - Can I FIRE?

Blue Hero-

Congratulations on making the decision to ER! Sounds as thought this will be just the ticket for you. Can you take some time off between now and V-day? I'm thinking you have to have some earned sick or vacation days you will need to use just to keep your strength up till then (V-day)!

Best of luck to you on Monday!

Jane
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Re: Suffering from Burnout - Can I FIRE?
Old 04-22-2006, 10:51 AM   #33
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Re: Suffering from Burnout - Can I FIRE?

I had those deja vu moments in staff meetings, where you look around with a "how did I get here?" feeling. Even if the discussion was something that was actually substantitive and important in the real world, it didn't necessarily feel important to ME.

Retirement is ever so much nicer, and today marks the end of my first 8 months of it. I've no regrets about taking some financial hit in order to ER and get out with most of my faculties intact.

cheers,
Michael
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Re: Suffering from Burnout - Can I FIRE?
Old 04-22-2006, 03:33 PM   #34
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Re: Suffering from Burnout - Can I FIRE?

Blue Hero,
I am guessing you've the savvy to submit your resignation letter after June 1, right? Would hate to have your sense of fairness in giving them ample 'notice' be turned into the 'gift' of early retirement 2 weeks early. In some companies, they escort you out of the office the day you offer your resignation. Wouldn't want to let the pending bonus payment give any of your machiavellian superiors an incentive to use that particular method on you pre-June 1!
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Re: Suffering from Burnout - Can I FIRE?
Old 04-23-2006, 02:32 AM   #35
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Re: Suffering from Burnout - Can I FIRE?

June 1 is a very common retirement date since one of the last days of May is always the last day of the fiscal year. The executive bounus plan is a very rock solid legal contract. And they could not terminate after a notification of retirement for employees under this plan for any reason other than gross misconduct or illegal activity. If they are feeling particularly vindictive, they could give me a lousy performance rating whcih would reduce the bonus percentage a few points. But I don;t see this as a real viable scenario. I intend to leave on good terms to leave open the possibility of consulting in the future. If they did, then I have a strong legal document on my side and they are not anxious about generating bad press.

In the official HR website, the company requests 6-8 weeks of notification for retirement. Which would be next week. Still soemhting to think about. Thanks!!!!
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Re: Suffering from Burnout - Can I FIRE?
Old 04-23-2006, 01:54 PM   #36
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Re: Suffering from Burnout - Can I FIRE?

Bluehero,
It might not be construed as a 'notice of retirement' if you are early retiring -- they might think of this category just for 65-year-olds or 30-year-with-the-company types.. WIll the executive bonus still be paid to you if you merely terminate voluntarily (to go work at another company, for instance). This is the scenario they will most likely view your termination under, and it would be important to know you aren't going to get dinged in the pool as someone leaving who can't do anything about it. Imagine if you were going to go work for a competitor -- would they also have to pay you out on a full prorata, and especially if you were not actually employed on June 1?

I am not trying to make you paranoid, but based on the nimwits you work with, I wouldn't put anything past them. "Your" bonus could quickly be turned into 'more for us' in the minds of this type of person.

Still your need to give notice and keep good relations is such that I understand the issue and you may end up needing to consider something like giving notice June 1 and working part time/using up some vacation etc over the ensuing weeks/ negotiating a July 1 exit -- that sort of thing. After all, to keep them all happy, you'll be needing to start recruiting/training a replacement etc. which can take time.

It may all seem like a drag to keep this thing strung out an extra six weeks or whatever, but once you've mentally made the decision to leave, taken some personal days and vaca/sick days in May, and started to breathe the air of freedom, you may find it isn't so bad to keep puttering away through those final weeks. Anyway, good luck with your logistics! You are ER-bound and that is the bottom line...

(PS: beware the lunch date in May where your boss's boss and his/her boss take you out to lunch and try to jolly you back into a new, interesting, guaranteed-BS-free position overseeing your old boss or in some other interesting part of the company... it's been known to happen...)
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Re: Suffering from Burnout - Can I FIRE?
Old 04-24-2006, 12:40 AM   #37
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Re: Suffering from Burnout - Can I FIRE?

I really don't expect them to get nasty. In fact, I actually hold a few cards that I may be able to negotiate an even more lucrative departure package. I am the Senior Manager of Quantitative Methods & Decision Support for Global Operations. I am responsible for global operaitons analysis and performance assessment. My professional degrees are in Decsision Sciences and Statistics. I have developed many operations analysis and forecasting models that are far more sophisticated than the Executive Management can understand(they involve real math & statistics :-). They work very well and my reports are very heavily relied on in the boardroom.

I have a small staff of 2 analysts who by the fickle finger of fate are also leaving the company this month due to spouses getting better jobs out of state. As soon as I found out I have been actively recruiting at local Universities (which is how I inadvertantly lined up the adjunct teaching position for this fall). We landed 2 very good prospects, a BS Operations Management and an MBA. One is starting in 3 weeks the other in mid June. While both are top of class candidates with great potential, neither has the technical background to fully understand the methodologies nor do they have the experience to interpret the results or provide any meaningful analysis(until trained)

I didn;t plan for this happen, I expected to turn the reins over to the existing analysts who would have been able to hold the ship on course until a replacement manager was found. However, with the new scenaerio me leaving on June 6 would be a very bad thing from the companies point of view. Especially since the transition between fiscal years is always complicated.

If I wait until June to inform them, it could easily be percevied as an attempt to scr*w them. If I tell them now, I might be able to create more of a win-win atmosphere and negotiate an additional severence package to hang around part time to train the new troops.

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Re: Suffering from Burnout - Can I FIRE?
Old 04-24-2006, 05:30 AM   #38
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Re: Suffering from Burnout - Can I FIRE?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluehero
I really don't expect them to get nasty. In fact, I actually hold a few cards that I may be able to negotiate an even more lucrative departure package...

...If I wait until June to inform them, it could easily be percevied as an attempt to scr*w them. If I tell them now, I might be able to create more of a win-win atmosphere and negotiate an additional severence package to hang around part time to train the new troops.
blue,

I was in a very similar situation when I pulled the ripcord last year, timing my retirement for the first of May due to bonus and stock option payouts. I wrestled with the notification issue, and decided to give several months advance warning, telling the company of my plans in late December. It turned out fine for me, as I was able to do what you mentioned above, agreeing to help with the transition to my replacement and parting on good terms with all.

However, every situation is different and unique. ESRBob's cautionary words are wise ones, but only you know the hearts and minds of those in a position to do you harm...or good.

Best of luck with your decision.
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Re: Suffering from Burnout - Can I FIRE?
Old 04-24-2006, 09:48 PM   #39
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Re: Suffering from Burnout - Can I FIRE?

Blue,
I think you're in the catbird seat -- you are doing something highly technical and needed by senior mgmt, and your two supporting players are leaving/have just left.

I don't think they'll get funny with you.

I came out of the ranks of management and finance where everybody always knew how to do your job better than you did, and everyone was 'disposable'.

Nobody is going to escort you out of the office with the security guard saying 'we'll send your stuff after the movers put it all in boxes'. (This never happened to me, but was the norm for certain types of jobs on Wall Street for many years -- may still be).

I agree that springing a rapid resignation on them would be bad. I would steel yourself, though, for the fact that they'll try to talk you out of ER. They need you pretty badly right now. They are about to find out how badly, and so are you! Have fun with this one! 8)
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Re: Suffering from Burnout - Can I FIRE?
Old 04-29-2006, 02:07 AM   #40
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Re: Suffering from Burnout - Can I FIRE?

OK, I've finally finished the retirement letter with a last day of June 1 and I am planning on turning it in on Monday. I fully expect them to have a cow and say I can't leave at least until the new college hires are fully trained to run the system. Since the methods and proceedures are all fully documented (good old ISO 9000 for you) I feel no moral obligation to stay and train the new troops.

However, as we all know there is a big differece between ISO compliant documentation and actually being able to successfully run a complex process like the analysis of operations metrics from a mutinational corp.(nothing ever goes as planned). When they do put the hard court press on, I am inclined to say my June 1 date is firm, but am open to discussing a severance package(to include more than just salary) to stay on part time for a couple of months until a new manager is recruited and the new troops have things under control.

Is this an underhanded tactic or just reality of Mega Corp business? I have a hard time seeing a downside since the worst they can do is say no and I'm free on June 1.

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