the joys of retiring abroad

[Chuckanut]

You know, escaping the US health care system was not one of my main reasons for retiring abroad. Now that I have done so however, it is the single biggest benefit that I have experienced here.

As I said in a post on another thread, the difference between Europe and the USA is how they view freedom. Europeans want 'freedom from' - things like hunger, poverty, bad health, etc. Americans tend to want 'fredom to' - do things as they wish, when they wish with nobody telling them no.

 

[Khufu]

As I said in a post on another thread, the difference between Europe and the USA is how they view freedom. Europeans want 'freedom from' - things like hunger, poverty, bad health, etc. Americans tend to want 'fredom to' - do things as they wish, when they wish with nobody telling them no.

Perhaps, but it seems to me unlikely that the differences in the social welfare systems are the necessary expression of cultural differences. Instead, the political processes have been captured by vested economic interests. With respect to health care, once the providers and insurers have managed to sequester 17% of the the biggest GDP in history, they are more than adequately funded to defend that stake.

 

[stoutboy]

Not convinced. THIS American would like the freedom to live his life w/o the specter of financial ruin caused by medical catastrophe looming over him...

As I said in a post on another thread, the difference between Europe and the USA is how they view freedom. Europeans want 'freedom from' - things like hunger, poverty, bad health, etc. Americans tend to want 'fredom to' - do things as they wish, when they wish with nobody telling them no.

 

[ItDontMeanAThing]

The reason I ask is that most expats I know who have relocated there (mostly ex-State Department types) go to Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai, or other cities in the north.

Do they live there year around? Many of the people I know who live there leave for the 2-3 month burning season.

Feb. this year in Chiang Mai. The official daily stats for particulate matter are scarier than the photo.

 

[ERD50]

... Americans simply don't realize how ridiculous their system is when compared to 99% of foreign systems.

I'm tired of talk along those lines. We get it, we get it, we get it. We spend more, we have less to show for it. Too many people need to go to ER to get care. We get it.

Getting something positive done about it is the problem.


I do enjoy all the talk from people living outside the US. Great to her the 'on the ground' details. Lots of pluses, some challenges. Not for everyone, but still fun to listen in.

-ERD50

 

[stoutboy]

They live there most of the year, with maybe 3-4 months back in the US each year. For the most part, they are males with Thai wives. So the wife can own land and they build really nice homes there. Also, they don't live in the cities, but outside somewhat, so the pollution and traffic issues don't affect them so much. Very lovely countryside up there.

Do they live there year around? Many of the people I know who live there leave for the 2-3 month burning season.

Feb. this year in Chiang Mai. The official daily stats for particulate matter are scarier than the photo.

 

[yakers]

In Cambodia right now, can't imagine living here for an extended period. But Viet Nam might work. Actually, have to get back to California and tend to DW's mom who is failing. Can't travel much until that resolves. In asia it seems pretty easy to get meds over the counter without a prescription. Not sure if that works for everything but everything we have needed so far.

 

[stoutboy]

I agree: nothing stands out about Cambodia. It has a wilding element that lurks just beneath everyone's calm exterior. Vietnam would be awesome, I think, especially if you could speak Vietnamese. Laos has great potential as a retirement destination if they could ramp up the quality of health care.

In Cambodia right now, can't imagine living here for an extended period. But Viet Nam might work. Actually, have to get back to California and tend to DW's mom who is failing. Can't travel much until that resolves. In asia it seems pretty easy to get meds over the counter without a prescription. Not sure if that works for everything but everything we have needed so far.

 

[Billy]

This is a very informative thread and I’m glad to see it here. From our personal experience, the comments made here about the Thai culture and personal relationship approach rings true. Also, the excellent Thai medical care we have received, both in BKK and in Chiang Mai, is a very positive feature of living in Thailand.


Another thing on the topic of medical care which I find to be of value, is the availability of Chinese acupuncture, Ayurvedic medicine and massage therapy. Not every physical condition needs an X-ray, MRI, some pharmaceuticals or surgery. Having these options readily accessible is a plus.


I did have a question for the Australians here on the forum because I don’t know the answer. I did not see this topic specifically addressed so far in the thread, only the Medicare feature of Australia’s benefits. One of our Readers sent us the following note, and I’d like to know more about this subject if someone could inform me.


There are only 17 countries that have reciprocal social security agreements with Thailand. Australia is not one of them which is why we are not entitled to our "Aussie" pension if we continue to live here. Anyone considering retiring in Thailand needs to check if their particular home country is on the list. Americans, Brits are OK they get their pensions wherever they decide to hang their hats which is a wonderful thing. I know most of your followers would be American but as you have followers far and wide it might be worth mentioning to the general population this anomaly in the system so everyone knows to suss it out and do not get a helluva shock like we did.

Cheers!
M


Thanks for any insight.

Best,
Akaisha

 

[YoungSaver]

Interesting read. Your budget blows my mind, and I'm also a ThaiVisa member.

For people reading this thread and thinking of retiring to Thailand, this thread is not a typical story of expats in Thailand that I have met.

 

[KeyserSoze]

Interesting read. Your budget blows my mind, and I'm also a ThaiVisa member.

For people reading this thread and thinking of retiring to Thailand, this thread is not a typical story of expats in Thailand that I have met.

The story may not be typical, but neither are most farang that retire to Thailand. Most farang I know that live in Thailand have a very comfortable life. Even the ones who have limited assets. It's all about realistic expectations and not partying all the time. It sounds like Khufu has covered his bases and is enjoying his time in Bangers. That is all anyone can ask for.

Khufu, I know many go "bare" when it comes to health insurance as the costs of medical care in Thailand is very low compared to the west. That is until you have an ongoing health issue or an accident of some type. Full coverage insurance at any private hospital in Thailand can be obtained very reasonably. One friend that is in his mid 50s and lives in BKK told me that he pays 25,000 baht per year for full coverage. This allows him treatment in any private or public hospital in Thailand. Something to consider.

 

[YoungSaver]

The story may not be typical, but neither are most farang that retire to Thailand. Most farang I know that live in Thailand have a very comfortable life. Even the ones who have limited assets. It's all about realistic expectations and not partying all the time. It sounds like Khufu has covered his bases and is enjoying his time in Bangers. That is all anyone can ask for.

100% agreed. It takes a "different" type of thinking to retire abroad.
I just didn't want people to think they needed $3000-$4000 a month to retire in Bangkok. $1000 a month is possible, but $1500 a month in Bangkok would be comfortable living.

 

[KeyserSoze]

100% agreed. It takes a "different" type of thinking to retire abroad.
I just didn't want people to think they needed $3000-$4000 a month to retire in Bangkok. $1000 a month is possible, but $1500 a month in Bangkok would be comfortable living.

I agree completely as I know people living comfortably in BKK on $1500 a month and others where $5,000 per month is not enough. This is part of the reason I am in a quandary on when to pull the trigger and take ER. When I feel I am ready, I will be retiring to Thailand also. Most likely in Chiang Mai or Hua Hin. The quandary I am in is that I don't consider myself FI at this point in time, even with an estimated $5,000USD per month in drawdown available to me. Yes, this is more than enough to live a reasonable middle-classed western lifestyle just about anywhere, in today's dollars, but I have a very bad feeling that a wave of inflation is just around the corner. We are feeling it now in the US. Inflation is running at a high rate in Thailand also, coupled with the strength of the baht compared to the USD. This is where I am stuck, so I keep doing the 9 to 5 for MegaCorp and accumulating $$$.

BTW, you may recognize my nic from TV also.

 

[YoungSaver]

BTW, you may recognize my nic from TV also.

I certainly do.

 

[Sarah in SC]

Khufu, thanks for the update. I'm curious about how you might handle health emergencies while traveling back to the US, without coverage. I recognize that these would be rare and/or unlikely, but this story got me to thinking about how difficult it might be to handle a medical emergency here without insurance.

Baby Gracee Broom's unexpected arrival in the US leaves Brisbane family with massive medical bill | The Courier-Mail

"SHE'S "amazing Gracee'' to her parents and family. But little Gracee Broom is becoming better known as "the million-dollar baby''. Her unexpected February 12 arrival at 24 1/2 weeks, while her parents were on the "honeymoon they never had'' in the US, has left the Brisbane family facing massive medical bills that could cost more than AU$1 million."

 

[obgyn65]

Very refreshing thread. Thank you for sharing your experience, Khufu.

 

[Khufu]

Khufu, thanks for the update. I'm curious about how you might handle health emergencies while traveling back to the US, without coverage. I recognize that these would be rare and/or unlikely, but this story got me to thinking about how difficult it might be to handle a medical emergency here without insurance.

Just back in town and noticed your question. Yes, health care coverage on trips back to the US is indeed the sticking point. My current plan is to buy traveler's insurance for my wife who is younger. For myself, I will just shoulder the risk for the next couple of years and then sign up for Medicare.

 

[Khufu]

Khufu, I know many go "bare" when it comes to health insurance as the costs of medical care in Thailand is very low compared to the west. That is until you have an ongoing health issue or an accident of some type. Full coverage insurance at any private hospital in Thailand can be obtained very reasonably. One friend that is in his mid 50s and lives in BKK told me that he pays 25,000 baht per year for full coverage. This allows him treatment in any private or public hospital in Thailand. Something to consider.

Thanks for the suggestion which I will look into. My understanding is that coverage here stops are age 75 or sooner. Renewals are not guaranteed even until then. So, the coverage you imagine that you are buying may turn out to be illusory when you need it. I am in my 60's, by the way. The general approach I follow with insurance is that you should only be willing to pay a company to take your risk if you cannot afford to bear it yourself. So, fire insurance is worthwhile, but not laptop or travel insurance. Living for the first time in a low-cost health care economy changes the equation.

 

[Ozziedreamer]

This is a very informative thread and I’m glad to see it here. From our personal experience, the comments made here about the Thai culture and personal relationship approach rings true. Also, the excellent Thai medical care we have received, both in BKK and in Chiang Mai, is a very positive feature of living in Thailand.


Another thing on the topic of medical care which I find to be of value, is the availability of Chinese acupuncture, Ayurvedic medicine and massage therapy. Not every physical condition needs an X-ray, MRI, some pharmaceuticals or surgery. Having these options readily accessible is a plus.


I did have a question for the Australians here on the forum because I don’t know the answer. I did not see this topic specifically addressed so far in the thread, only the Medicare feature of Australia’s benefits. One of our Readers sent us the following note, and I’d like to know more about this subject if someone could inform me.


There are only 17 countries that have reciprocal social security agreements with Thailand. Australia is not one of them which is why we are not entitled to our "Aussie" pension if we continue to live here. Anyone considering retiring in Thailand needs to check if their particular home country is on the list. Americans, Brits are OK they get their pensions wherever they decide to hang their hats which is a wonderful thing. I know most of your followers would be American but as you have followers far and wide it might be worth mentioning to the general population this anomaly in the system so everyone knows to suss it out and do not get a helluva shock like we did.

Cheers!
M


Thanks for any insight.

Best,
Akaisha

Just responding to your question on Aussie pensions. There is a long running thread on Thai Visa on the subject at Australian Aged Pension - Visas and migration to other countries - Thailand Forum - Page 27

The long and the short of it is this as I understand it: You can receive the Aussie pension (albeit at a reduced rate) in Thailand. However depending on how long you have been out of Oz before becoming of an age eligible for the Aussie pension, you may be deemed to be non resident by Centrelink (the govt body) meaning you have to live back in Australia for 2 years full time once you apply for the pension, before you can then leave and go back again to Thailand to live (ie pension becomes portable after 2 years living in Oz).

More info here:
How Long Can My Pension Be Paid While I Am Absent Australia

Also extracted from this webpage
Age Pension

You can generally get Age Pension for the total period of absence regardless of whether you leave permanently or temporarily. However, the rate of Pension Supplement you receive will reduce immediately on departure if you leave permanently, or after 13 weeks if you leave temporarily . Your rate of Age Pension and Pension Supplement may change again if you remain outside Australia for more than 26 weeks. If you are travelling to New Zealand, your rate may be affected by the Social Security Agreement between Australia and New Zealand.


Personal Disclaimer. I am well away from the Aussie Pension age, so do not claim to be an expert. I am also hoping not to have to rely on it when I get to that age. So not claiming to be an expert and best to check with Centrelink (apparently they have an office in Hobart specifically set up to to deal with international queries - this is detailed in the TV thread)

 

[Ozziedreamer]

Very refreshing thread. Thank you for sharing your experience, Khufu.

Yes, great thread Khufu. Hope you can keep it updated from time to time.

 

[Billy]

Thank you OzzieDreamer for this information. I'll check into it a little more and let my Readers know.

I appreciate your time and effort in getting back to me about this!

Best,
Akaisha