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Well Off 52 Yr old Married with 3 Teenagers seeks Opinions and Wisdom
Old 02-23-2016, 12:10 PM   #21
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Well Off 52 Yr old Married with 3 Teenagers seeks Opinions and Wisdom

Not to be contrarian, but our friend who is also European, retired at 45 with three teenagers and has now gone back to work. I'm sure money was not his problem. In 2015, he earned north of $100 million, yes it's not a typo. I think he must be bored after a few years off.


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Old 02-23-2016, 12:54 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by papadad111 View Post
I'll be a contrarian. Keep working. You need a few million more to really enjoy life. Especially in your euro tax situation and ability to live globally.

Plus, if you stroke out while on a business trip you'll get some life insurance payout from Megacorp to leave behind a nice big legacy to your wife and kids. They'll smile at the picture of you on the wall.

....wondering what dad was really like ...

Go ahead. Keep at it ...

Or you could retire now, volunteer in the kids school from time to time to get and stay involved in their lives, do some good charity with the pot you've accumulated in the places you choose to live, Enjoy life.

OK, OK, nice post.
I believe I am sufficiently involved in my kids life. That is where you all assume wrong. It is NOT impossible to not be retired and be a reasonably good parent who enjoys the kids.

I get the charity thing, a good suggestion. That is exactly what I will do after retirement. Teaching would be great as well, but only to smart, motivated students.

One more pushback on this board: There seems to be too much focus on the monetary, financial aspect. The conventional wisdom here seems to be to retire as soon as you can financially do so.
Let me take that to the extreme: If you are born rich, as per the logic on this board, you should never work, but just move directly from kindergarden to retirement. I am sure that is not what you are trying to say.

Do not get overly defensive on me, but for me there are relevant non financial aspects of retirement.
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Old 02-23-2016, 01:01 PM   #23
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Let me take that to the extreme: If you are born rich, as per the logic on this board, you should never work, but just move directly from kindergarden to retirement.
Not a bad plan. Why put up with the BS of work at all? You could do whatever you wanted. Become an eccentric rich dude.
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Old 02-23-2016, 01:02 PM   #24
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One more pushback on this board: There seems to be too much focus on the monetary, financial aspect. The conventional wisdom here seems to be to retire as soon as you can financially do so.

Let me take that to the extreme: If you are born rich, as per the logic on this board, you should never work, but just move directly from kindergarden to retirement. I am sure that is not what you are trying to say.
If I'd been a trust fund baby, I'd probably have studied something like paleography, archaeology or linguistics. Not having to choose work that assures you a decent living is very freeing. Others with different interest and abilities might decide to become a social worker or a concert pianist. Similarly, the OP's financial position allows for many ways to have a fulfilling, productive life.

I always wondered, though, about people with multi-million compensation packages who just kept at it. The CEO who joined the company where I was working 20 years ago made $17 million his first year (public information). He's still there. I joked at the time that I'd work one year at that job and then find something else to do for the rest of my life.
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Old 02-23-2016, 01:05 PM   #25
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If you still like to work, then weigh the trade-offs. But don't let your young family give you a reason not to pull the ripcord when you are ready. The sooner you do, the more time you have to float and enjoy the ride.
I will take that advice 100%, thank you.
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Old 02-23-2016, 01:08 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Mexpet View Post
One more pushback on this board: There seems to be too much focus on the monetary, financial aspect. The conventional wisdom here seems to be to retire as soon as you can financially do so.
Let me take that to the extreme: If you are born rich, as per the logic on this board, you should never work, but just move directly from kindergarden to retirement. I am sure that is not what you are trying to say.

Do not get overly defensive on me, but for me there are relevant non financial aspects of retirement.
Welcome to the fourm, Mexpet. No need to push back on that point, I most everyone here will agree that finances are not the goal, just the threshold you must pass in order to retire. If you enjoy your work and feel your time spent there is a good use, then by all means, continue. Most of us here have found that life after work is quite enjoyable and there are indeed very few who wish to leave the retired life and return to work.
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Old 02-23-2016, 02:09 PM   #27
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If I were a trust fund baby I would be involved in film, either as a film maker or invest in companies making films, like Oracle's daughter.


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Old 02-23-2016, 02:18 PM   #28
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One more pushback on this board: There seems to be too much focus on the monetary, financial aspect. The conventional wisdom here seems to be to retire as soon as you can financially do so.
Let me take that to the extreme: If you are born rich, as per the logic on this board, you should never work, but just move directly from kindergarden to retirement. I am sure that is not what you are trying to say.

Do not get overly defensive on me, but for me there are relevant non financial aspects of retirement.
The FI in FIRE is for financially independent, and as others have noted, for many that is the main goal - not the RE. The FI gives you the ability to make a choice what is right for you. Some people love their job and enjoy the opportunity to be exposed to the people they meet and work and/or do something they think is important (or just enjoyable). But many people find the stress of their work is detrimental to their life, or the often "round the clock" hours takes a toll on their health or family life.

Clearly you have the ability to make a choice that works for you and your family. if you enjoy your life as is, then continue to enjoy it and know that you have the freedom to walk away from work when you want to. However, I don't think that quitting would set a bad example. Kids learn what they see, and in such instance, your kids would see the benefits of setting a goal and achieving it. Plus they'll see the freedom that can come from living below your means and the ability to contribute to the world in ways other than simply by a paid job.
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Old 02-23-2016, 03:51 PM   #29
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Hi Mexpet,


I agree with KatieK that many of us are first and foremost focused on the FI, and then the RE. And we do focus on the non-monetary - head over to the Travel forum or the "Other Topics" forum and see we talk about all kinds of things.


But, of course, the monetary aspect is a large part of it, because most of us haven't been able to amass $11M.


The FI gives you freedom - freedom to not work, or freedom to work if you want at whatever you want. If I had been born rich, maybe I would have had a different career or taken some more risks - I have a nice, safe, gov't job that I enjoy, but ask me if I would have loved to become a travel photographer or an adventure tour guide 20 years ago.....if I didn't feel the need to have a steady job to pay the bills.
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Old 02-23-2016, 04:09 PM   #30
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FWIW - I am younger than you with younger children at home. I was working in an extremely intense, high-stress field making lots of money. I enjoyed the work but it was taking its toll on me.

My assets had grown very nicely and I started to realize I didn't NEED to work anymore. That itself was very liberating. However, I still enjoyed my line of work and was hesitant to walk away completely as there is no going back. So, I decided to go PT.

My life has changed dramatically since I made that decision. Yes I now make substantially less, but my family and friends have seen the change in me. I now have the time and patience I did not have previously. My relationships with my wife and kids have become much stronger. . .that is priceless.
I just wanted to comment on this because this is exactly how I'm feeling in my extremely stressful but well paying IT job. However, I'm not FI yet but really wish I was so I could do the same thing. Finding PT work in IT will be difficult but I'm fine with another career job etc as long as it's decent - hopefully a few more years (non 2015/2016 like though).

And to the OP - with your wealth please retire...vacate the position for someone else and enjoy your time with the family as much as you can. Also with your hobbies etc I don't know how you're spending $150k per year. May be overestimating the needs unless you plan to do some very specific things during retirement.
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Old 02-23-2016, 04:44 PM   #31
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... One more pushback on this board: There seems to be too much focus on the monetary, financial aspect. The conventional wisdom here seems to be to retire as soon as you can financially do so ...
IMO it appears that way on this forum b/c that's the ticket to entry. IOW, one cannot simply 'do whatever you want' under normal circumstances without a substantial financial safety net; it's not that people don't do that, but most like that don't post here -- that would be a more Mr Money Moustache approach for example.

ER.org adherents tend to be a fiscally conservative LBYM lot, and they practiced what they preach .. and now proselytize that to others; so the point of view is skewed that way (e.g., make sure you have the $ first, etc.) and it's worth keeping that inherent bias in mind.

If you remove that constraint, then people here (and I suspect elsewhere on these sorts of fora) will tell you that they would have done work that was psychically remunerative even if it was not financially so.

To your question, and in my experience, the non-financial aspect of RE is harder than the numbers for many reasons, the least of which is societal and potentially familial or filial expectations.

FWIW, there are plenty of worthy and absorbing things to do that don't pay well - or indeed at all- out there. That kind of work and the freedom to set your own schedule - working for 3-4 months at a consulting type of project or similar and then taking off for 6 months to see some part of the world that interests you ,etc - are often stepping stone outlets for people who have the FI part done but are unsure or uncertain of the RE side of things.

I do not know, nor have I ever met, anyone who is retired or partially retired, who regrets leaving their traditional employment - even among people who had fulfilling and in many cases impactful careers.
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Old 02-23-2016, 04:59 PM   #32
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We are Europeans, so no world wide taxes for us, and I could see myself retiring in Costa Rica ( no income taxes on income earned outsideCosta Rica), or in Mexico ( we know and like Puerto Vallarta and San Miguel de Allende, as we have been living in Mexico for the last 4 years), any experiences on moving to a warm climate, not to lower cost of living, but to increase quality of life? I would love to hear about great retirement destinations.
How about Guanajuato?
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Well Off 52 Yr old Married with 3 Teenagers seeks Opinions and Wisdom
Old 02-23-2016, 06:03 PM   #33
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Well Off 52 Yr old Married with 3 Teenagers seeks Opinions and Wisdom

It might be good idea to continue working for the next 4 years until kids start college. It will be much easier to decide on retirement location once kids are out of the house. Than retire only when you are mentally/emotionally ready. Since money is no object consider having two places. My pick will be Germany to enjoy Alps, and place in Naples, Florida to enjoy beach.


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Old 02-23-2016, 06:33 PM   #34
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I dunno.... the bad example you will be setting for your kids is that if you work hard, make sacrifices, live below your means, save a lot and invest well that you can retire in your early 50s and enjoy life...... I think you could do a lot worse than that!
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Happiness vs Retirement or Financial Independence
Old 02-24-2016, 12:43 AM   #35
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Happiness vs Retirement or Financial Independence

Let me try to summarize, what I learned.

Retiring early with kids still at home is probably not a bad example, if managed responsibly. Check!!!


However, we are looking for different things:
You want Early Retirement and Financial Independence whereas i seek more happiness - very different things!

Financial Independence - I believe (after having reflected on it) I have always been financially independent, even when I did not have any money. I always spent less money than I had, or I always made more money than I needed.it just never was a big motivator.

So, FI is obviously not what I am after. If i wanted to be a photographer, I would have become one, by the way. If I wanted to be a beach bump, I would have become one.
I think I am trying to maximize happiness, not retire early. And yes, may be this is the wrong forum. For me early-retirement.orgwas not synonymous money.
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Old 02-24-2016, 07:24 AM   #36
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What is Happines?
http://www.happify.com/hd/what-is-happiness-anyway/


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Old 02-24-2016, 09:26 AM   #37
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The FI is a means to an end, it brings freedom to make choices without the pressure of a career or job (depending on how you look at what you do for compensation). Admittendy, this forum leans toward the FI part of the equation as the "happy ending" is extremely individualistic.


I accepted an early retirement offer at age 50 with 1 and 3 year old sons. Was floundering with the decision when it occurred to me that I could be a regular part of their daily lives much more so than if I continued my career. Absolutely the happiest period of my 66 years.


Have I ever stopped working? Not really. Between volunteer activities (Treasurer of a swimming pool club, treasurer of Cub and Boy Scouts, treasurer of a soccer club, soccer coach, etc) and 15 years as part-time at a CPA firm, the boys have always seen me being involved.......going to meetings or going to work. None of the above activities, even the ones that pay, are done for the money but for my desires (and generally pay about a fourth of what I received as an engineer). But they are all on MY terms.
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Old 02-24-2016, 12:16 PM   #38
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@Mexpet ... it seems you're already FI and can't tell whether RE will make you 'happier' or not. This is a very fair observation, but candidly probably beyond the assessment of this community, as pointed out indirectly by a number of posts to this thread.

You say you've always been FI and indeed based on the numbers at the OP, you are by any measure. You also note that it's not about career choices, since you could have done anything you wanted and made a decent living at it ...

Ok, fair enough. But if all that's true, then all you're left to do (really) is look hard in the mirror and talk w your SO about what you want out of life, IMO. You clearly have the assets to do that and take your time doing so. It may be that you are happiest doing exactly what you are (and have been doing) for many years, but that may also not be the case.

What I see inherent in many posts here is the idea that you can chose to continue on the path you're on, but at FI, one should be making a conscious, volitional choice in that regard.

Best of luck to you.
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Old 02-24-2016, 03:16 PM   #39
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One more pushback on this board: There seems to be too much focus on the monetary, financial aspect. The conventional wisdom here seems to be to retire as soon as you can financially do so.
Let me take that to the extreme: If you are born rich, as per the logic on this board, you should never work, but just move directly from kindergarden to retirement. I am sure that is not what you are trying to say.
Maybe for some... I am FI and I work and pretty much enjoy it.

I can also tell you that I feel much more relaxed as FI then before, since I do not need to give a F$%^. It actually makes my work even more enjoyable
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Old 02-24-2016, 06:25 PM   #40
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Mexpet,

Congratulations on your savings and lifetime of accomplishments. I don't have much to add regarding warm retirement destinations. I do think it's good you are considering how your lifestyle impacts the character of your children and how this will impact their ability to lead independent, productive, and fulfilling lives.

Like other posters, I believe that spending more time with you kids can have a positive impact in general. Since it's probably obvious to them that you have the financial aspects well under control, increasing quality family time (retirement, part-time w*rk, less demanding job etc.) can underscore the importance of family relationship as a priority once basic financial survival needs have been met.

Have you read "The Milionaire Next Door" (TMND)?? A couple of chapters in this book may be of interest because they discuss the challenges of financial successful parents raising independent, productive children that aren't handicapped by co-dependence and entitlement. Chapter 5 "Economic Outpatient Care" and Chapter 6 "Affirmative Action, Family Style" may be of greatest interest. Chapter 6 also discusses "Rules for Affluent Parents & Productive Children". I'm not sure if any of this is even relevant to your situation, but it's a good general discussion of the potential challenges and ideas for addressing them.

FB
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