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Old 06-04-2016, 01:57 PM   #61
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I think you're barking up the wrong tree, comrade.

We're doing our part to ensure an educated populace -- to the tune of $30k+ per year out of pocket (our family's, not the other tax payers'). At the same time, we're relieving the tax payers in our town of $40k/year (based on the school's estimate of $13k+/year per child) by not sending our kids to the public school. Then on top of that we pay about $5k/year via taxes to educate other kids whose parents send them to the public school. Mind you, we don't make more money than most other families in town. We just take fewer vacations, drive older cars, and buy fewer toys.

Pardon me if I feel our civic duty to 'educate the populace' has been fulfilled and then some.
You can drop the comrade crap. I'm very capitalist.

education is a common good that benefits all. Your choice not to use it doesn't relieve you of the duty to pay. Rising tide floats all boats, etc.

Do you also complain about maintaining the roads you don't use? Sewer pipes? See the logical inconsistency?
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Old 06-04-2016, 02:00 PM   #62
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Guys, we can disagree without being disagreeable.
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Old 06-04-2016, 02:51 PM   #63
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Guys, we can disagree without being disagreeable.
Aye -- that was my aim, but I'll double down on my efforts.
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Old 06-04-2016, 03:05 PM   #64
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You can drop the comrade crap. I'm very capitalist.

education is a common good that benefits all. Your choice not to use it doesn't relieve you of the duty to pay. Rising tide floats all boats, etc.

Do you also complain about maintaining the roads you don't use? Sewer pipes? See the logical inconsistency?
I understood your point the first time you made it. We obviously have different viewpoints on this matter, and I really don't think we'll resolve those differences in my thread. So let's move on, shall we?
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Old 06-04-2016, 03:40 PM   #65
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I understood your point the first time you made it. We obviously have different viewpoints on this matter, and I really don't think we'll resolve those differences in my thread. So let's move on, shall we?
What? You expect someone on the internet NOT to keep a pointless argument going?
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Old 06-04-2016, 04:24 PM   #66
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What? You expect someone on the internet NOT to keep a pointless argument going?
Not really, but...the moderator made me do it!
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Old 06-04-2016, 09:07 PM   #67
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Not really, but...the moderator made me do it!
Darn mods, being so... moderate!
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Old 06-05-2016, 06:35 AM   #68
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Guys, we can disagree without being disagreeable.

I would like to order a couple of million t shirts with this printed on them.
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What's the deal with 45?
Old 06-05-2016, 09:12 PM   #69
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What's the deal with 45?

Anyhoo, getting back to arguing whether to pay off the OP's mortgage, as for me, I like having my cake with the option to eat some too. I am not making extra payments but am instead building a large, flexible post-tax cushion that could be used to cover us in the event of a job loss, take time off between gigs to travel, build a bridge fund between FIRE and age 59.5 or, yes, pay off the mortgage if we decide to. For security yet a little growth, I've chosen to invest it in a conservative 20/80 balanced Vanguard Life Strategy fund, which means I'll pay some taxes. However, it returns better than cash yet will likely be there when I need it.

Good job so far, OP. Whether FIRE happens for you at 45, 50 or 55, you are creating options for your future that few you likely know in real life will have.
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Old 06-06-2016, 03:40 PM   #70
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Anyhoo, getting back to arguing whether to pay off the OP's mortgage,
Booo!

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as for me, I like having my cake with the option to eat some too. I am not making extra payments but am instead building a large, flexible post-tax cushion that could be used to cover us in the event of a job loss, take time off between gigs to travel, build a bridge fund between FIRE and age 59.5 or, yes, pay off the mortgage if we decide to. For security yet a little growth, I've chosen to invest it in a conservative 20/80 balanced Vanguard Life Strategy fund, which means I'll pay some taxes. However, it returns better than cash yet will likely be there when I need it.
I can't really argue against that approach. I prefer the "sure thing" of a paid-off mortgage and attendant ability to scale back on work hours. But I certainly understand the appeal and the flexibility of having a big wad of cash instead. We've considered doing that from time to time, and we still might decide to do so before the mortgage is gone in ~4 years.
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Old 06-06-2016, 05:25 PM   #71
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As someone who paid for 13 years, each, of parochial school for two kids, I can say it was worth it. I know our 401(k)'s would probably be bigger if we hadn't, but watching them as responsible, contributing adults makes us realize the ROI is priceless.



Keep up the good work. You have good problems - many don't.
We bit the private school tuition bullet also. It was difficult at times and a challenge but worth it as you say. 16 yrs (including 4 yrs out of state for college) x 3 = 48 years of tuition payments. I added it up once and it was a big number. $10k/yr is a LOT at that age.
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5 year update
Old 05-08-2017, 02:54 PM   #72
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5 year update

Another year, another update. I thought it might be nice to see a summary of previous years along with this year in a table. Note that I don't have the actual numbers for 2013 except mortgage and debt, so the other figures are (linearly) interpolated and appear in []:

-- 2012 -- -- [2013] -- -- 2014 -- -- 2015 -- -- 2016 -- -- 2017 --
Retirement $500k [$627k] $755k $884k $920k $1,088k
Savings $165k [$142] $120k $105k $90k $76k
Mortgage $237k $213k $188k $161k $132k $103k
Non-mortgage debt - $18k $0 $0 $0 $0 $0

It's nice to see the retirement accounts go above $1MM, and the mortgage dwindle away. Savings continue to erode due to some combination of fully funding our IRAs, paying for private school, and paying extra on the mortgage. Mortgage should be paid off in a little over 3 years, and cashflow will be substantially improved at that point. Hopefully that happens before we run out of savings. On the other hand, our savings is earning < 1%, so if most of it ends up in IRAs and/or paying down our 4.25% mortgage, so be it.

I've been thinking a lot lately about when we can pull the plug -- either for ER or (more likely) ESR. So far the numbers aren't shouting out "DO IT!!", but it's still possible that we'll E(S)R by 45 or shortly thereafter. I guess this will largely depend on what the market does in the next 4-5 years.
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Old 05-08-2017, 10:51 PM   #73
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Looks like you are making good progress but don't see anything related to expenses. How much will you need to budget for? Seems that your children are relatively young, have you planned for college?
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Old 05-09-2017, 08:09 AM   #74
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Looks like you are making good progress but don't see anything related to expenses. How much will you need to budget for? Seems that your children are relatively young, have you planned for college?
I almost put an 'Expenses' row in the table, but it's a little complicated. Our current expenses are much higher than I expect them to be in 5+ years. It goes something like this:

 --2017----2020--2021----2022----2025--
Projected Expenses--
$125k
$90k
$80k
$70k
$60k

The reasons for the decreases include: paying off the mortgage in 3 years, $10k/year gifts from parents & grandparents (for tuition) starting in ~4 years, and kids starting to graduate out of private school.

For the past few years our non-mortgage, non-tuition expenses have hovered around $55k. This includes thousands in expenses, mainly related to child-care, that should fade away in the next few years. We feel confident that we can live quite well on $55k. Tightening the belt we could get down to $45k without major hardship.

As for college, we're not going to make certain sacrifices (e.g., work full-time for the rest of our healthy lives) trying in vain to keep up with tuition inflation. If we're working at least half time, our employers will cover $10k+/year (increases with inflation) per kid for tuition. Parents & grandparents have the means and desire to help out with another $10k/year. One or two of the kids might get into an elite school tuition-free (at our expected income). We'll expect the kids to pay for 1/2, either through jobs or loans. We're not above sending them to community college for 2 years to save. Etc. Bottom line: if we are working 1/2 time, we expect to be able to cover basic expenses + tuition without issue.
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