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Old 06-04-2016, 12:57 PM   #61
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I think you're barking up the wrong tree, comrade.

We're doing our part to ensure an educated populace -- to the tune of $30k+ per year out of pocket (our family's, not the other tax payers'). At the same time, we're relieving the tax payers in our town of $40k/year (based on the school's estimate of $13k+/year per child) by not sending our kids to the public school. Then on top of that we pay about $5k/year via taxes to educate other kids whose parents send them to the public school. Mind you, we don't make more money than most other families in town. We just take fewer vacations, drive older cars, and buy fewer toys.

Pardon me if I feel our civic duty to 'educate the populace' has been fulfilled and then some.
You can drop the comrade crap. I'm very capitalist.

education is a common good that benefits all. Your choice not to use it doesn't relieve you of the duty to pay. Rising tide floats all boats, etc.

Do you also complain about maintaining the roads you don't use? Sewer pipes? See the logical inconsistency?
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Old 06-04-2016, 01:00 PM   #62
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Guys, we can disagree without being disagreeable.
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Old 06-04-2016, 01:51 PM   #63
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Guys, we can disagree without being disagreeable.
Aye -- that was my aim, but I'll double down on my efforts.
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Old 06-04-2016, 02:05 PM   #64
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You can drop the comrade crap. I'm very capitalist.

education is a common good that benefits all. Your choice not to use it doesn't relieve you of the duty to pay. Rising tide floats all boats, etc.

Do you also complain about maintaining the roads you don't use? Sewer pipes? See the logical inconsistency?
I understood your point the first time you made it. We obviously have different viewpoints on this matter, and I really don't think we'll resolve those differences in my thread. So let's move on, shall we?
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Old 06-04-2016, 02:40 PM   #65
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I understood your point the first time you made it. We obviously have different viewpoints on this matter, and I really don't think we'll resolve those differences in my thread. So let's move on, shall we?
What? You expect someone on the internet NOT to keep a pointless argument going?
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Old 06-04-2016, 03:24 PM   #66
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What? You expect someone on the internet NOT to keep a pointless argument going?
Not really, but...the moderator made me do it!
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Old 06-04-2016, 08:07 PM   #67
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Not really, but...the moderator made me do it!
Darn mods, being so... moderate!
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Old 06-05-2016, 05:35 AM   #68
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Guys, we can disagree without being disagreeable.

I would like to order a couple of million t shirts with this printed on them.
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What's the deal with 45?
Old 06-05-2016, 08:12 PM   #69
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What's the deal with 45?

Anyhoo, getting back to arguing whether to pay off the OP's mortgage, as for me, I like having my cake with the option to eat some too. I am not making extra payments but am instead building a large, flexible post-tax cushion that could be used to cover us in the event of a job loss, take time off between gigs to travel, build a bridge fund between FIRE and age 59.5 or, yes, pay off the mortgage if we decide to. For security yet a little growth, I've chosen to invest it in a conservative 20/80 balanced Vanguard Life Strategy fund, which means I'll pay some taxes. However, it returns better than cash yet will likely be there when I need it.

Good job so far, OP. Whether FIRE happens for you at 45, 50 or 55, you are creating options for your future that few you likely know in real life will have.
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Old 06-06-2016, 02:40 PM   #70
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Anyhoo, getting back to arguing whether to pay off the OP's mortgage,
Booo!

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as for me, I like having my cake with the option to eat some too. I am not making extra payments but am instead building a large, flexible post-tax cushion that could be used to cover us in the event of a job loss, take time off between gigs to travel, build a bridge fund between FIRE and age 59.5 or, yes, pay off the mortgage if we decide to. For security yet a little growth, I've chosen to invest it in a conservative 20/80 balanced Vanguard Life Strategy fund, which means I'll pay some taxes. However, it returns better than cash yet will likely be there when I need it.
I can't really argue against that approach. I prefer the "sure thing" of a paid-off mortgage and attendant ability to scale back on work hours. But I certainly understand the appeal and the flexibility of having a big wad of cash instead. We've considered doing that from time to time, and we still might decide to do so before the mortgage is gone in ~4 years.
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Old 06-06-2016, 04:25 PM   #71
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As someone who paid for 13 years, each, of parochial school for two kids, I can say it was worth it. I know our 401(k)'s would probably be bigger if we hadn't, but watching them as responsible, contributing adults makes us realize the ROI is priceless.



Keep up the good work. You have good problems - many don't.
We bit the private school tuition bullet also. It was difficult at times and a challenge but worth it as you say. 16 yrs (including 4 yrs out of state for college) x 3 = 48 years of tuition payments. I added it up once and it was a big number. $10k/yr is a LOT at that age.
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5 year update
Old 05-08-2017, 01:54 PM   #72
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5 year update

Another year, another update. I thought it might be nice to see a summary of previous years along with this year in a table. Note that I don't have the actual numbers for 2013 except mortgage and debt, so the other figures are (linearly) interpolated and appear in []:

-- 2012 -- -- [2013] -- -- 2014 -- -- 2015 -- -- 2016 -- -- 2017 --
Retirement $500k [$627k] $755k $884k $920k $1,088k
Savings $165k [$142] $120k $105k $90k $76k
Mortgage $237k $213k $188k $161k $132k $103k
Non-mortgage debt - $18k $0 $0 $0 $0 $0

It's nice to see the retirement accounts go above $1MM, and the mortgage dwindle away. Savings continue to erode due to some combination of fully funding our IRAs, paying for private school, and paying extra on the mortgage. Mortgage should be paid off in a little over 3 years, and cashflow will be substantially improved at that point. Hopefully that happens before we run out of savings. On the other hand, our savings is earning < 1%, so if most of it ends up in IRAs and/or paying down our 4.25% mortgage, so be it.

I've been thinking a lot lately about when we can pull the plug -- either for ER or (more likely) ESR. So far the numbers aren't shouting out "DO IT!!", but it's still possible that we'll E(S)R by 45 or shortly thereafter. I guess this will largely depend on what the market does in the next 4-5 years.
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Old 05-08-2017, 09:51 PM   #73
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Looks like you are making good progress but don't see anything related to expenses. How much will you need to budget for? Seems that your children are relatively young, have you planned for college?
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Old 05-09-2017, 07:09 AM   #74
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Looks like you are making good progress but don't see anything related to expenses. How much will you need to budget for? Seems that your children are relatively young, have you planned for college?
I almost put an 'Expenses' row in the table, but it's a little complicated. Our current expenses are much higher than I expect them to be in 5+ years. It goes something like this:

 --2017----2020--2021----2022----2025--
Projected Expenses--
$125k
$90k
$80k
$70k
$60k

The reasons for the decreases include: paying off the mortgage in 3 years, $10k/year gifts from parents & grandparents (for tuition) starting in ~4 years, and kids starting to graduate out of private school.

For the past few years our non-mortgage, non-tuition expenses have hovered around $55k. This includes thousands in expenses, mainly related to child-care, that should fade away in the next few years. We feel confident that we can live quite well on $55k. Tightening the belt we could get down to $45k without major hardship.

As for college, we're not going to make certain sacrifices (e.g., work full-time for the rest of our healthy lives) trying in vain to keep up with tuition inflation. If we're working at least half time, our employers will cover $10k+/year (increases with inflation) per kid for tuition. Parents & grandparents have the means and desire to help out with another $10k/year. One or two of the kids might get into an elite school tuition-free (at our expected income). We'll expect the kids to pay for 1/2, either through jobs or loans. We're not above sending them to community college for 2 years to save. Etc. Bottom line: if we are working 1/2 time, we expect to be able to cover basic expenses + tuition without issue.
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6 year update
Old 05-15-2018, 07:29 AM   #75
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6 year update

-- 2012 -- -- [2013] -- -- 2014 -- -- 2015 -- -- 2016 -- -- 2017 -- 2018
Retirement $500k [$627k] $755k $884k $920k $1,088k $1,272k
Savings $165k [$142] $120k $105k $90k $76k $67k
Mortgage $237k $213k $188k $161k $132k $103k $72k
Non-mortgage debt - $18k $0 $0 $0 $0 $0 $0

2017 was a fun ride in the stock market, was it not? Last year our retirement accounts (including contributions) increased by an amount that exceeded our income. And seeing our retirement accounts up > 250% over 6 years is certainly gratifying.

And now we're just over 2 years away from having the mortgage gone. That's going to be a $35k/year improvement in cashflow.
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Old 05-15-2018, 08:05 AM   #76
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Great progress! Do you have a timeline you would like to quit your work or do you like your work that you don't mind working because you wouldn't know what to do w/o it?

This year has been flattish so far. Since I check my balances semi-annually I'm not in rush to see them yet.
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Old 05-15-2018, 11:25 AM   #77
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Great progress! Do you have a timeline you would like to quit your work or do you like your work that you don't mind working because you wouldn't know what to do w/o it?
Thanks! I think we like our jobs enough to keep working at least part time indefinitely -- until we don't like the jobs anymore, or until something else comes along that seems like a more appealing use of our time.

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This year has been flattish so far. Since I check my balances semi-annually I'm not in rush to see them yet.
Yeah, I selectively check my balances frequently (when the markets are on fire), and rarely (when the markets are falling).
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Old 05-15-2018, 01:41 PM   #78
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A Bird In Hand,

I just found your thread today, and I found it very fun to read your plans from 2012 and your updates. I'm on a similar trajectory to you, just about 5 years behind you. I'm 35 now, and at least contemplating the idea of ER or ESR at 45. Honestly, healthcare and college tuition are my two big hurdles... otherwise, I think I would've already decided this was a goal and started developing a plan.

I just recently got the FIRE bug (perhaps a couple of months ago). I really haven't developed a plan, timeline, or goal... other than arbitrarily thinking that 45 might be nice and feasible. Part of he lack of direction is not really knowing what I'd want to do in retirement anyhow... Selling the house and RVing the country sounds amazing to me, but horrible to my DW.

Anyhow, keep posting your updates!

MIMH
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Old 05-15-2018, 02:20 PM   #79
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I started tracking my net worth and portfolio value starting in 2006. You have a tendency to live in the here and now, so its fun to look back and for a brief moment feel proud of your financial accomplishments.
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Old 05-15-2018, 03:32 PM   #80
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I just found your thread today, and I found it very fun to read your plans from 2012 and your updates. I'm on a similar trajectory to you, just about 5 years behind you. I'm 35 now, and at least contemplating the idea of ER or ESR at 45. Honestly, healthcare and college tuition are my two big hurdles... otherwise, I think I would've already decided this was a goal and started developing a plan.

I just recently got the FIRE bug (perhaps a couple of months ago). I really haven't developed a plan, timeline, or goal... other than arbitrarily thinking that 45 might be nice and feasible. Part of he lack of direction is not really knowing what I'd want to do in retirement anyhow... Selling the house and RVing the country sounds amazing to me, but horrible to my DW.
Thanks MIMH -- I'm glad you found this interesting!

It's never too early (or too late) to start developing a plan. In fact the planning/dreaming/imagining part of FIRE is probably half the fun, at least for those of us to whom the journey is as important as the destination.

It's definitely important to be on the same page as your DW though. Hopefully between now and whenever you FI(RE), you'll have figured out what it is you want to do when you're not working full time. The closer I get to FIRE, the more I've come to realize that I'm not sure what I'll do in retirement. I'm kind of eager to get started on ESR so I'm forced to figure out how to spend my free time...but at the same time I'm slightly concerned that I'll be bored and want to return to work full time.
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