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Re: Will my plan work?
Old 12-14-2005, 12:21 PM   #21
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Re: Will my plan work?

Lost Wages Las Vegas has a lot of differnet kinds of jobs. The casino jobs tend to pay pretty low unless you get into dealer positions in the High Roller areas were you can make a ton on tips. LV is expanding very very fast as you no doubt know. That makes for lots of jobs in the service sector. I don't know what area of work would interest you or how much you want (need) to make to get buy.

Income taxes and RE taxes should be a lot lower in LV due to the gaming industry. Housing prices are going up pretty fast and contractors are backup up for months with all the building going on.

Walking away from a $20k (additional?) pension is certainly a personal issue. I left a lot on the table when I did my ER the first time. I am still working on FI and we are shooting for ER in two years with no need to ever work again unless we want to for fun. We think the extra two years is worth the peace of mind we will have by sucking it up and staying in the working world for another 24 months. DW has invested 20 years of her life in the same company and wants to get her hard earned retirement benefits. A small pension and almost free healthcare insurance for life is worth the price of admission to us.

Waiting also means not drawing on our savings or investments until we have to. Each month we don't draw on them, and actually adding to them, will provide a nice cushion in our income when we do need to live on it. Be plan on keeping close to our current standard of living, with some reductions in some area, for several more years. After that who knows? As long as we have the funds we can travel as much as we feel like it and also help out the grandkids and kids as needed.

These comments are not intended to say you are not doing the right thing; rather, they are only to share our way of thinking which is unique to us. We each have to plow our own fields and what works for you may not work for me.

We see it as something we Want to do to make our lives very easy when we do ER. Some see ER in a different light and that is what makes us all different.
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Re: Will my plan work?
Old 12-14-2005, 12:52 PM   #22
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Re: Will my plan work?

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Originally Posted by SteveR
Lost Wages
Income taxes and RE taxes should be a lot lower in LV due to the gaming industry.* Housing prices are going up pretty fast and contractors are backup up for months with all the building going on.*

Walking away from a $20k (additional?) pension is certainly a personal issue.* I left a lot on the table when I did my ER the first time.* I am still working on FI and we are shooting for ER in two years with no need to ever work again unless we want to for fun.* We think the extra two years is worth the peace of mind we will have by sucking it up and staying in the working world for another 24 months.* DW has invested 20 years of her life in the same company and wants to get her hard earned retirement benefits.* A small pension and almost free healthcare insurance for life is worth the price of admission to us.*
The 20K is in addition to the 30K or so I would get by walking now.

Four years makes a such a difference due to penalty in state pension system. But 30k is like taking SWR from a 750000 dollar stash anyhow.

I wasnt doing much planning, since I thought I would hang around and get the 50K at the end of 30 years. But each day I would tell my friend, "if they would give me 30 or 40 K right now, plus health bennies, I would jump right now" Ive said this many times.

Ive been abused and bullied on the job, demoralized, all sorts of psyche trauma that I became involved in a workabuse/bully program on the web that took me to London and SF many times. I can lecture on workabuse, but there is no money in it, and very few people would beleive what I say. They stopped bothering me a few years ago but trauma of being isolated and demoralized has given me a bad taste. I cope with this using spirituality. Ive also had trouble with my son who at the time I was "battling" at work, has alcohol problems and tried to skewer my wife and myself twice.


That also leaves marks on your psyche. We are 2 damaged souls, but we are survivors.

The workplace is nothing more than a system consisting of a pecking order with the narcissists on top, and the drones below them defferring power on up and sucking contempt on down. A mddle manager simply sucks up to his bossman, and throws comtempt downward to his subordinates. Its a game, and its an abusive one. I can give you a great website on this, all you need do is ask

It took me a few years to integrate/hardwire these concepts into my mind, but the abuse and humiliation I suffered here stays with you, even though things have calmed down. The last incident this past April caused me to break out in hives and shake like a leaf for a few months. I made a quick decision this past july when overlooking Vegas from the clubhouse of the retirement comm I bought into. I said "things have got to change"

Now that I feel more secure, my nerves have calmed down, I realized that I may be able to stick it out another 4 years. I keep thinking I made an error, and I close on the vegas house next month. Yeah, I can hang onto it for 4 years..

But who knows?

I dont work hard, am left alone, but when will the next insane thing come and work on my already fragile psyche? When will my already sensitive mind be rattled? Abuse leaves very bad scars you never heal from. Some days I feel like I can conquor the world, some days I feel like shooting myself (especially when thinking of the 20)

So there is no right decision. but I do know Im paid well but bored out of my skull and I look at the new community and city of Vegas as an opportunity to "reinvent" myself, to try something different, to meet new people, a new environment. I picked vegas simply cause it has the entertainment/tourist industry, so much opportunity to do many things. Im a forensic accountant by trade, but dont care to do that.

I like the idea of a new house, a pool club, sunshine each day, day trips by car to other places. My wife has no financial ties here, so all is resting on me, and she is willing to do some work. I would love to buck out with a full 50K pension, but not everything works out. So its a matter of when I sell my house.

Some think Im crazy walking away from money, some say to go for it. The fellow who was murdered spoke to me about the foolishness of walking away from good pay and pension. Interesting, then he was murdered. There is no right answer, life is a chance at getting some happiness, we die anyhow
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Re: Will my plan work?
Old 12-14-2005, 12:56 PM   #23
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Re: Will my plan work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter76
Don't forget that if you're depreciating your real estate, you might have a sizable recapture gain once you sell a house or two for college...
Wrong, wrong, wrong-- very common tax trap for blissfully ignorant rental-property owners.

The IRS assumes that you've been depreciating your rental property and will expect you to pay the depreciation recapture. *You will ALWAYS have depreciation recapture when you sell a rental property. *You will pay the depreciation recapture whether you've actually been depreciating the property or not, so failure to depreciate is not an excuse. *

It's not logical, but it's the IRS' rule.

A 1031 exchange is one way to deal with this issue, but it only delays the inevitable reckoning.
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Re: Will my plan work?
Old 12-14-2005, 02:06 PM   #24
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Re: Will my plan work?

Jug,

You sound like a man wrongfully imprisioned that is making a scratch on the wall for each day that passes by like the Count of Monti Cristo.

You have to do what is best for you and your wife. Staying in a toxic environment will take years off your life. Get out and don't look back. There are lots of things you and your wife can do to make some $$ in Vegas. I am sorry you had to endure so much in your job and in your personal life.

Like the Count, you too can escape the prison and make a new life for yourself.
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Re: Will my plan work?
Old 12-14-2005, 02:14 PM   #25
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Re: Will my plan work?

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Originally Posted by jug
Dont think it doesnt bother me loosing out on the 20k if I wait just another 4 years or so.* *With the 20K more, I wouldnt even be thinking about how to invest money safely for income.* I fight with my mind each nite, then I feel better in the day time.

I bought the house in vegas after having a rough situation at work that has finally calmed down.* But I already made my bed, might as well take the leap.

But on the other hand, after 50, your health is iffy. My wife fortunately simply says,

"you bought the other house, so lets look at this as an adventure, we are not broke, and we can always work part time if things get tight."* She is all for it.

There is no perfect decision, some have less, some have more, but we all have limited health and time.
jug

You and your wife sound pretty sharp to me. I think you will be fine.

JG
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Re: Will my plan work?
Old 12-14-2005, 03:14 PM   #26
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Re: Will my plan work?

Mike,

I looked through the posts but couldn't find the answer to this. Maybe I didn't look close enough. What are you "netting" on the rental properties after all expenses (taxes, upkeep, interest, etc)?
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Re: Will my plan work?
Old 12-14-2005, 05:48 PM   #27
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Re: Will my plan work?

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Originally Posted by MRGALT2U
You and your wife sound pretty sharp to me.* I think you will be fine.

JG
Thanks to you and Steve for the good words, encouragement is always appreciated. Its funny, the ones who pooh pooh my plans are those that usually know the price of everything, but the value of nothing. They are the unfortunate ones, afraid to live life to the fullest, which in itself takes some risk.

Sometimes playing it a bit too safe takes the fun out of life. The worst thing that can happen is I go broke, but the pension and SS will roll in anyhow, so I at least will eat.
thanks again
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Re: Will my plan work?
Old 12-14-2005, 06:42 PM   #28
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Re: Will my plan work?

Jug

I am in the same position with my pension.

If I stay 4 more years the 31K pension is more like 41K 10 more a year.

However I am so sick of the job the commute etc and my wife is all for the selling of the house and the move to North Carolina from New Jersey.

Heck just last week a commission recommended that they the state of New Jersey change the pension formula get rid of early retirements and other cost savings ideas that would only really ef me with my luck if I decide to stay!

The House will be on the market 1st week in January, heck the Xmas tree will come down and the for sale sign goes up!

I am pumped!
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Re: Will my plan work?
Old 12-14-2005, 09:43 PM   #29
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Re: Will my plan work?

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Originally Posted by newguy88
Jug

I am in the same position with my pension.

If I stay 4 more years the 31K pension is more like 41K 10 more a year.

However I am so sick of the job the commute etc and my wife is all for the selling of the house and the move to North Carolina from New Jersey.

Heck just last week a commission recommended that they the state of New Jersey change the pension formula get rid of early retirements and other cost savings ideas that would only really ef me with my luck if I decide to stay!

The House will be on the market 1st week in January, heck the Xmas tree will come down and the for sale sign goes up!

I am pumped!
You sound like you are also fed up and want to find out what you really want to do. It happens to many of us in this stage of middle life, we burn out, the thrill is gone, and perhaps we are not following our passion, but just working on something we fell into in order to pay the bills.

I believe our passions exist within our dreams, what our hands and minds yearn to do, what we dream about. I think when we see that crack of daylight, the opportunity to escape our present situations, we should run through the crack, since if we wait, the crack may not widen, and will close up, and our chance to follow our dreams and passions will be lost.
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Re: Will my plan work?
Old 12-14-2005, 11:43 PM   #30
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Re: Will my plan work?



Jug - I agree. A month ago I helped to bury one of greatest people I have ever met - a mentor and friend. It brought home how short life may be. Working for Feds I see people every day hanging on a little longer to pad the pension. Most of them are wrecks when they leave. Many don't last 5 years before they are dead or disabled. Scares the crap out of me.

Like alot of people I was trained for one job, research, then gradually was pushed into jobs I was not trained for, including management and administration. Last 2 years were miserable. Not as bad as yours, but affected every part of my life. I drank too much, couldn't sleep, hurt my family life and friendships. When I finally realized that my investment numbers were good, I quit my admin. job and went back to research. After a month of decompression I have started to enjoy life again! I have been pressured and threatened a couple of times since then to get back in, but I told them to stick it. That is the real power of financial independence to me.

Viva Las Vegas!

Peter76 - Not sure on my Wife's pension. I would like to see her quit before it is even a factor so we can have fun together. But that is up to her. 30k rental is gross. A more precise statement would have been that we are living without my income as a test.

Selling a rental straight out is painful. I estimate that about 25% will go to someone else. We may sell main residence (500k tax free!) and just move to a rental for a couple of years. We havn't gotten to that bridge yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TargaDave
Mike,

I looked through the posts but couldn't find the answer to this. Maybe I didn't look close enough. What are you "netting" on the rental properties after all expenses (taxes, upkeep, interest, etc)?
Targa,

Net rental numbers are always tricky, but are probably in the 20k range, depending on tax benefits, maint and repair costs for a given year. I have not payed that much attention to the income side. I always thought that anything past breaking even was bonus bucks. I should probably look harder at that in the near future.

Also someone asked about 'early out'. Yes it will be an early out. Not sure if it will be DSR or VERA, but current fiscal crisis in Congress is pressuring many domestic agencies to offer these to anyone that wants one.

Thanks - Mike
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Re: Will my plan work?
Old 12-15-2005, 03:26 AM   #31
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Re: Will my plan work?

Jug
I read your post and could only think of a comment made to me a few years back about life: "It's not a dress rehearsal".
No reason you shouldn't go, if that's what you want, especially since you are going to something (new house, new town, new life) and have a spouse who is with you on it.
Twenty grand a year is a nice hunk of change, but the idea of "just one more" and next thing you know the ship has left and you're still standing on the dock.
A nice shot of sunshine wouldn't be too bad right now.
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Re: Will my plan work?
Old 12-15-2005, 04:45 AM   #32
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Re: Will my plan work?

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Originally Posted by uncledrz
Jug
I read your post and could only think of a comment made to me a few years back about life:* "It's not a dress rehearsal".* *
No reason you shouldn't go, if that's what you want, especially since you are going to something (new house, new town, new life) and have a spouse who is with you on it.*
Twenty grand a year is a nice hunk of change, but the idea of "just one more" and next thing you know the ship has left and you're still standing on the dock.

A nice shot of sunshine wouldn't be too bad right now.
Unceldrz
Trust me, its a very big battle within my head.* Just before I get up in the morning,* I lay in the dark, and I say "what am I crazy or something?"

I make easy money just showing up, I can buy what I want, I dont have to scrimp or worry about anything financial.* I dont ever want to be compelled to work again"

These are my thoughts in the morning darkness, wanting to kick myself.

Then as the day goes on, I feel better, more adventurous and realize how boring things are where I am, how Ive been thrown out of the loop at work.* But on the other hand, no one is really watching me or bothering, they just leave me be.

If I wait the four years, I will have a pension that will essentially leave me in the same place without worrying about earning enough in the market or bank to supplement my pension.

Its really tough, since there is no perfect answer, and I think that perhaps once I get over the "shock" of quitting my job and moving to another part of the country, I will feel better and perhaps fall into a situation that Im enjoying, perhaps the money situation will be better than I thought, perhaps my outlook on life will change for the better.* Right now Im like a drone on autopilot coming into work.

In reality, if people leave me alone, I dont mind getting up to work, its actually traveling home that bothers me, I think its the same old same old.

Ive always liked getting up and going somewhere early, always believed in getting out of the house, makes me feel alive, but I never ever want to be compeled to do it, I just want to do it.

Its a tough place to be.* If I wait, I might miss the boat.* Quitting a job with a partial pension and moving across the country is going into the unknown.* It is dark when I type this, maybe the chemistry will change as the sun comes up.* Interesting observation.

jug
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Re: Will my plan work?
Old 12-15-2005, 07:29 AM   #33
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Re: Will my plan work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jug
...In reality, if people leave me alone, I dont mind getting up to work, its actually traveling home that bothers me, I think its the same old same old....

jug
This strikes me as a little odd. Are you saying you are more uphappy about going home at the end of the day than getting up and going into work at a boring dead end job? If so, then retirement may make you very unhappy since you will most likely be home more than you have been. If being home is an issue for you I have serious concerns about you having a successful retirement. If I am reading this wrong I apologize, but this sentence just struck my as odd.
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Re: Will my plan work?
Old 12-15-2005, 08:16 AM   #34
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Re: Will my plan work?

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Originally Posted by SteveR
This strikes me as a little odd.* Are you saying you are more uphappy about going home at the end of the day than getting up and going into work at a boring dead end job?* If so, then retirement may make you very unhappy since you will most likely be home more than you have been.* If being home is an issue for you I have serious concerns about you having a successful retirement.* *If I am reading this wrong I apologize, but this sentence just struck my as odd.
That is good insight on your part. No, Im glad you are having this discussion with me. This is something that I have to look into. Like I said, the job is very boring, but the reason I dont like the trip home is that perhaps it is just the schlep home, since I have no energy, or perhaps it is the boring life at home. I dont look forward to much at home and there isnt much to do in my area, no intellectual stimulation in my suburb.

Most of the stuff that does interest me is in Manhattan where I work, but to stay there and participate and meet new people is hard, since it is a long schlep home once the rush hour is over.

I would like a hobby, I do jog, but when you get up at 6 am, get in at 9, then get home in the darkness at about 6, you dont have much energy to get inbovled with anything. I need to jog to maintain my mental and physical health, or whats left of it.

Ive been so involved with issues involving workabuse, and abuse in general, that I didnt develop any hobbies to take on except for my jogging and walking.

My wife sits and freakin watches TV all night long, and she doesnt seem to want to talk much or analyse things with me.

But you have a very good point about my bordem. Im going out to the new house this Jan, perhaps the neighborhood and newness of the area will stimulate me somewhat.

Not only is the question financial, the question about ER is also what to do with the time. Im trying to bank that I would fall into a situation where I can adjust the time I spend more economically to concentrate on new interests.

I need to develop new things, since most of my life I was battling problems with my nerves and mind, and didnt have time to sit down and get into something, save for jogging which doesnt take much thought.

Its a hard question about when to retire, Im taking a financial risk if I go now, but if I wait 4 years, Im taking a risk that I may not be around or in good health to enjoy it. Im turning 53 now and my mental health goes from good to lousy.

My physical health could be iffy too, since I dont know what damage has been done to my body from the psyche abuse. My wife has the same problem. We were almost killed several times by our son who was on alcohol, I work near ground zero, have no idea what that did to me. I take blood pressure and nerve meds, my doc says Im pretty healthy, just have problems with my mind that affects my bp, I was born with this tendency I guess. So I really dont know.

I feel good now, can run 5 miles now, but I see people my age dropping dead.

My wife just called and told me her nerves are also shot from her job which is very stressful, but she works 10 minutes from home Its weird, maybe we both need to say F--k you to the world, move to Vegas and live like freakin hippies
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Re: Will my plan work?
Old 12-15-2005, 08:43 AM   #35
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Re: Will my plan work?

Jug

I have to say the NYC metro area is just too darn crowded.

I mean I grew up in the Bronx in the late 50s and early 60s moved to the NJ suburbs and basically have spent the last 27+ years commuting to and from the job as a teacher in 4 different public school systems . The last 18 in Newark, NJ.

My 115 mile round trip drive these days on the interstate rt 78 is just , well AWFUL!

9/11 did not help. Watching the buildings fall from my classroom window was well ...

Now my kids are grown one a doctor and married the other a professional with a wife and hey like you said maybe head out with the wife and live like hippies!!

Hey I will be 50 in april.

In my case it IS time.

I tell the wife to sell the house everyday.

She is ready right when the Xmas tree comes down, the for sale sign goes in the window.

Take my 300,000 profit buy a place for cash in the raleigh area get a part time job selling kayaks and coach a private school track team.

Lets take our early pensions 4 more years of this and who knows what other blood pressure meds we will be on!
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Re: Will my plan work?
Old 12-15-2005, 08:45 AM   #36
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Re: Will my plan work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jug

My wife sits and freakin watches TV all night long, and she doesnt seem to want to talk much or analyse things with me.


jug
Some of us would love to be in that situation. *

Speaking of people dying...............first I wanted to outlive Custer (38).
Then, I wanted to outlive Caesar (56). *Now, I have tied Hemingway
(61). *Not too sure of my next goal. *

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Re: Will my plan work?
Old 12-15-2005, 09:36 AM   #37
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Re: Will my plan work?

Jug, do you have the option of taking a leave of absence to get your arms around all your issues? That might be the best thing. Maybe you could get a leave for health reasons--too stressed out.
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Re: Will my plan work?
Old 12-15-2005, 11:37 AM   #38
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Re: Will my plan work?

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Jug, do you have the option of taking a leave of absence to get your arms around all your issues?* That might be the best thing.* Maybe you could get a leave for health reasons--too stressed out.*
In reality, my wife and I both need probably six months off to deal with things, you are very correct. After going to school, 7 years in college plus work, then 26 years work, the only long term period I had off was 2 months in a hospital after suffering a severe breakdown in 89. Dont get me wrong, I do take vacations, but in the middle of life alot of us need a few months sabatical to re-create ourselves.

These bastards in the white house tell us to pull our selves up by the bootstraps, but they never lived our lives. My next time Im opting to be born in France, women, wine, 6 weeks off, med care, and a more civilized life, despite their riots

American people need a break, and this is the reason this board exists, because people are looking to escape the everyday hell other people (bosses, control freaks, narcissists, assine work rules, burnout, and all the other sh-t thrown at us by an archaic feudal system fueled by our obsession with overspending on crap) vampires create for us. If work were a pleasure and we had a sense of community, there would be no need for the FIRE board.

The leave of absence might do it, my friend was suggesting it this morning, he said dont quit, just cut out for a while.

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Re: Will my plan work?
Old 12-15-2005, 03:02 PM   #39
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Re: Will my plan work?

One suggestion. ...I was once in a very difficult job situation, two people had nervous breakdowns and I was probably next. Something right out of the Cain Mutiny.
Anyway I'm convinced that what kept me sane at the time was...running. I started slowly and kept it up. My best year I missed 8 days, and I was averaging 8-10 miles a day at the peak. But I ran at lunch and it broke the day into 2 manageable parts. And eventually my whole attitude shifted. Most people who know me now say (and correctly, I think) that I am one of the happiest persons they know. They do not know about the dark days I went through.
Anyway, keep running or meditating or something that opens that part of yourself, we often have more resources within us than we are consciously or rationally aware of.
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Re: Will my plan work?
Old 12-15-2005, 03:16 PM   #40
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Re: Will my plan work?

Jug, you need some time away from the office! Take that leave and get refreshed. The work environment is harsh and right now you sound on the edge. Take the time to heal and do things that are fun and meaningful. You need a break!
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