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Re: 0% FOR LIFE!! BT credit card games
Old 01-26-2007, 06:18 PM   #21
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Re: 0% FOR LIFE!! BT credit card games

SecondCor521,

Read your thread at fatwallet. Let us know how your app-o-rama turns out. I might sign up for a ton of cards next time I get an urge to make some $$.
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Re: 0% FOR LIFE!! BT credit card games
Old 01-26-2007, 06:21 PM   #22
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Re: 0% FOR LIFE!! BT credit card games

You guys do realize that you're hosing your FICO score, yes?
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Re: 0% FOR LIFE!! BT credit card games
Old 01-26-2007, 06:23 PM   #23
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Re: 0% FOR LIFE!! BT credit card games

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute Fuzzy Bunny
You guys do realize that you're hosing your FICO score, yes?
Maybe - but who cares? What do I need credit for? I've got a house and a couple of cars and a pretty penny in the bank. I keep getting new credit cards, so obviously it isn't that bad. Even if my insurance costs doubled (I don't know if they are tied to FICO scores or not), I'd still be ahead a couple grand a year.
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Re: 0% FOR LIFE!! BT credit card games
Old 01-26-2007, 06:26 PM   #24
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Re: 0% FOR LIFE!! BT credit card games

As long as you arent applying for a new mortgage or car loan...in which case the higher rates resulting might offset your gains. And then some.
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Re: 0% FOR LIFE!! BT credit card games
Old 01-26-2007, 06:43 PM   #25
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Re: 0% FOR LIFE!! BT credit card games

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute Fuzzy Bunny
As long as you arent applying for a new mortgage or car loan...in which case the higher rates resulting might offset your gains. And then some.
credit advice from somebody that wouldnt pay a 30 dollar bill from amex and is now permanently blacklisted from a card from them...how rich seriously, the advice to read fat wallet is a good idea...take a weekend to read some threads there and see if any of this for you....there are ways to limit the affect on your credit (i.e. limiting utilization and some other stuff that is easier to just find yourself there)....
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Re: 0% FOR LIFE!! BT credit card games
Old 01-26-2007, 06:58 PM   #26
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Re: 0% FOR LIFE!! BT credit card games

Well MEOW maddy, and such effective diction too!

I eagerly await your next syllable!

Five bucks says my FICO score can kick your FICO scores ass...
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Re: 0% FOR LIFE!! BT credit card games
Old 01-26-2007, 07:28 PM   #27
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Re: 0% FOR LIFE!! BT credit card games

Come on, settle down now.

Rules on the "other topics" board:

--no IQ contests
--no FICO contests
--otherwise, the "mine is bigger than yours" contests are fine.



Pretty please.
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Re: 0% FOR LIFE!! BT credit card games
Old 01-26-2007, 08:41 PM   #28
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Re: 0% FOR LIFE!! BT credit card games

Maddy, as a practical matter, what utilization % do you keep your stoozing to? I pigged out at first and maxed out, so my FICO went to the high 600s. As the BT offers expire and I pay them down, I am considering my next round of BTs. At a minimum, I will be looking to bump my credit limits to keep utilization lower. But where is the threshhold above which you get dinged? 50%? 70%? Obviously liquidity isn;t really an issue, its just the optics I care about.
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Re: 0% FOR LIFE!! BT credit card games
Old 01-26-2007, 09:09 PM   #29
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Re: 0% FOR LIFE!! BT credit card games

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha
Pretty please.
Oh alright. Maddy just likes me.

After all, why take the trouble to school me in good principles like paying debts that arent yours?
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Re: 0% FOR LIFE!! BT credit card games
Old 01-26-2007, 09:53 PM   #30
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Re: 0% FOR LIFE!! BT credit card games

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute Fuzzy Bunny
As long as you arent applying for a new mortgage or car loan...in which case the higher rates resulting might offset your gains. And then some.
Yep. I have no plans to need good credit any time in the near future. Also, if I do need good credit, I understand that paying off the balances will restore the majority of the reduction in my credit score in as little as 30-45 days. There is a drop of maybe 5 points per inquiry from the application, but that can be offset in the long run by the amount of credit extended dropping utilization. Also, inquiries drop in importance after six to 12 months. Finally, my credit score, even with a 49% utilization on one card, was in the high 700's somewhere when I did my AOR, so it'll probably only drop into the high 600's.

Another risk is not being disciplined and using the borrowed money for something other than sticking it in high yield savings accounts.

justin, I will update my thread over at FW; you can get to it through SIS' AOR FAQ thread.

I know brewer was asking Maddy, but I keep my utilization to 50% on any given card. Right now I'm at 49% utilization on one card and about 6.6% utilization overall.

2Cor521
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Re: 0% FOR LIFE!! BT credit card games
Old 01-26-2007, 09:57 PM   #31
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Re: 0% FOR LIFE!! BT credit card games

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute Fuzzy Bunny
Sigh...the big gotcha here may be that you have to make 2 purchases each month, and usually the full high interest rate applies to THOSE purchases, and they're stuck on the "back end" of the debt, so you pay that high fee on those accumulating purchases as long as you're holding the "0%" balance.

Sure, you can buy a pack of gum twice a month at the gas station, providing they dont have a minimum purchase limit for credit cards and/or the credit card offer doesnt have a minimum purchase figure and you'd make out. But if you forget one of the two purchases, most of the time they put the full interest rate on the whole balance.

Read ALL of the fine print carefully. I've yet to see one that didnt have the potential for being way more costly than the measly benefits of floating a balance.
I agree. Does anyone really think the CC companies don't have this game figured out? They have a million ways to screw you! Here's an example: I recently opened my statement from a Wells Fargo CC that I rarely use - it had a $25.00 charge - for inactivity!! I called, had it removed (after 15 minutes of holding) and am going to cancel the card once I receive my next statement. It seems like an awful lot of juggling and gamesmanship for a few grand.
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Re: 0% FOR LIFE!! BT credit card games
Old 01-27-2007, 09:53 AM   #32
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Re: 0% FOR LIFE!! BT credit card games

Quote:
Originally Posted by justin
Maybe - but who cares? What do I need credit for? I've got a house and a couple of cars and a pretty penny in the bank. I keep getting new credit cards, so obviously it isn't that bad. Even if my insurance costs doubled (I don't know if they are tied to FICO scores or not), I'd still be ahead a couple grand a year.
This is exactly how I feel, i.e. "who cares?". I have made what is to me
a huge amount of income, just by doing a little reading/banking
and writing a few checks. Believe me, if it felt like real "work" I
would have nothing to do with it. BTW, I have not been able to
preset my own credit limits, so if I get a card with a low one I just cancel.
Also, I accept no cards requiring any purchases to qualify. Too much
screwing around. Finally, let's say you mess up and miss a "gotcha".
You can negotiate out of it if you are unyielding and assertive.
I've missed a few "details". Never cost me a dime.

JG
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Re: 0% FOR LIFE!! BT credit card games
Old 01-27-2007, 10:55 AM   #33
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Re: 0% FOR LIFE!! BT credit card games

if the balance transfer game works for you ... more power to you. i, however, am of the opinion that they (cc companies) can bring more brain power to this than can i.
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Re: 0% FOR LIFE!! BT credit card games
Old 01-27-2007, 11:14 AM   #34
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Re: 0% FOR LIFE!! BT credit card games

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute Fuzzy Bunny
Sigh...the big gotcha here may be that you have to make 2 purchases each month, and usually the full high interest rate applies to THOSE purchases, and they're stuck on the "back end" of the debt, so you pay that high fee on those accumulating purchases as long as you're holding the "0%" balance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex
Does anyone really think the CC companies don't have this game figured out? They have a million ways to screw you!
Credit Cards & Vegas Casinos.......Somebody's gonna win....USUALLY it's the "House". :

I've used the 0% to 4% BT's to dig myself out of extremely high CC debt....upper 5-digit debt. They were very effective tools....for THAT purpose. I still have a couple of VERY minor balances on 0% and 1.9% CC BT's.....they'll be paid in full in about 2 months!

And it IS a fact that those higher interest purchases will sit there until those 0% (and other low %) balances are paid off. Once the 0%'s are gone from the account....THEN those higher interest rate purchases will be paid. CC companys DO have it figured out...for THEIR benefit...NOT yours!!!

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Re: 0% FOR LIFE!! BT credit card games
Old 01-27-2007, 11:17 AM   #35
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Re: 0% FOR LIFE!! BT credit card games

John Galt told people they ought to play the rotating credit card float game:

Quote:
This seems to me to be the biggest no-brainer ever;
yet when I have explained it, many people just don't seem to
get it.
I did not reply, 'cause I just figured if it was a no-brainer for a big time investor like him, that he must be smarter than I am, 'cause I have zero confidence I would not miss at least some fine print, and then have to get into a ruckus and possibly lose money for my efforts and worry at running the scam scheme operation.

Of course, I was a bit puzzled to later read this, from the same author:
Quote:
let's say you mess up and miss a "gotcha".
You can negotiate out of it if you are unyielding and assertive.
I've missed a few "details".


Hmmm.

I know I am repeating myself at this point, but I'll just say "Thanks, but no thanks"
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Re: 0% FOR LIFE!! BT credit card games
Old 01-27-2007, 12:22 PM   #36
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Re: 0% FOR LIFE!! BT credit card games

I've been tempted to go this route, however, I'm not convinced people come out ahead as stated in many posts in the past. Maybe someone can help straighten out my thought process and assist me in understanding the numbers better:

1) I borrow 10K from Citibank at 0% for 12 months w/not BT fees nor purchase requirements (check)

2) I place borrowed 10K into a MM earning 5% interest (check)

3) I pay the minimum for the full 12 months at let's 3% of the balance - roughly $30 bucks a month. (check)

4) The borrowed 10K earns 5% - roughly $500 before taxes. Apply 28% income tax on it and net interest earned is $360 (Your mileage may vary...) (check)

5) I pay Citibank back their 10K at the end of 12 months and I've walked away with ~360.00 bucks after taxes in my pocket - yippeee!!! (check)

6) ...but I've paid the minimum for 12 months at ~30.00 which means I took $30.00 bucks from what I could've saved without having debt. Okay, so minimum payments total ~$360.00 for the term of the supposed arbitrage game.

Am I missing something here?? Please let me know, because I'd love to earn some free money

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Re: 0% FOR LIFE!! BT credit card games
Old 01-27-2007, 12:29 PM   #37
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Re: 0% FOR LIFE!! BT credit card games

cube, you may already realize this but you don't say so in your example: you only pay back $9,640 at the end of 12 months since you reduced the $10,000 by $360 with your monthly payments.

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Re: 0% FOR LIFE!! BT credit card games
Old 01-27-2007, 12:33 PM   #38
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Re: 0% FOR LIFE!! BT credit card games

Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo!
cube, you may already realize this but you don't say so in your example: you only pay back $9,640 at the end of 12 months since you reduced the $10,000 by $360 with your monthly payments.

Ooops, my blonde roots are showing. Yep, you're right. However, I could've invested the $360 using DCA over the same period into a mutual fund and probably be ahead. I dunno...someone convince me with facts and figures, please!
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Re: 0% FOR LIFE!! BT credit card games
Old 01-27-2007, 12:42 PM   #39
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Re: 0% FOR LIFE!! BT credit card games

Quote:
Originally Posted by cube_rat
Ooops, my blonde roots are showing. Yep, you're right. However, I could've invested the $360 using DCA over the same period into a mutual fund and probably be ahead. I dunno...someone convince me with facts and figures, please!
Well...you could take $360 from the $10K and invest it on day one any way you wish.

Hey, I'm not trying to convince you one way or the other. I did this last year to the tune of $20K and made a few bucks. Still, I was uncomfortable knowing I owed the money even though it was sitting securely in a $20K CD. Too much hassle for a few hundred bucks. But that's just me.

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Re: 0% FOR LIFE!! BT credit card games
Old 01-27-2007, 02:43 PM   #40
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Re: 0% FOR LIFE!! BT credit card games

Glad someone finaklly jumped in this thread an poste dup...i was surprised it took that long!

Even IF Citi 'screws' you and jacks rates up to 29% or whatever for a default or missing a purcase, PAY THEM IMMEDIATELY BY LIQUIDATING THE MM acct! Too simple.

And in response to the above post, just pay that minimum monthly payment from the MM acct, and it all goes toward principal, so there's no way the $360 is lost.

It really is a brainless act with this offer and previous Discover 0 for life offers...PAYPAL is your friend. I set up recurring pymts from me to my fianc, THREE $1 payments per month to be safe. And yes, $1 purchases do work fine.

Now, if I only had the ability to snatch up a 50k line, woo-hoo...let the games begin!

For now, I'll be saving 8.7% on 13k from an investment property HELOC...Should save me over $1k in just over a year....And the best part is that I save FOR THE LIFE of the BT.

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