Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-24-2011, 08:29 PM   #41
Full time employment: Posting here.
RetiredGypsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonidas View Post
[And then there were all the "gee, I didn't know that was against the law" people - caught many of them when we started asking the questions about their sex lives.]
Unless it was sex with a minor or a goat, what someone does in the privacy of their bedroom can prevent them from getting a job?

Quote:
Originally Posted by glippy View Post
I'm not surprised, I'd bet greater than 80% of it is drugs.
According to stats from the feds, it's about 50% in jail for drugs. I can't get the Bureau of Justice Statistics site to load, but maybe someone else will have better luck:

Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS)

Fitting though. Trying to stop sex and drugs have been the two largest failures and stupidest measures ever taken on by this country in terms of law enforcement. At least they stopped before they hit rock and roll, but just barely.
__________________

__________________
I'm free and I like it!
RetiredGypsy is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 03-24-2011, 08:32 PM   #42
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Leonidas's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Where the stars at night are big and bright
Posts: 2,847
Quote:
Originally Posted by NW-Bound View Post
Give us some examples of class a and class b misdemeanors.
The difference is mostly one of increasing seriousness of the activity based on the amount of pecuniary loss, injuries sustained, status of the victim, etc.

For example. Wander about in public flashing your private parts and it's a case of indecent exposure (class B). But, find yourself a partner and engage in sexual activity out in the public eye, and it's called Lewd Conduct (class A).

If you got upset at someone and threaten to kick their ass - that's Assault Class C. If you touch someone (no pain/no injury) in an offensive or provocative manner, that's Assault Class C. Do either of those to an elderly person and it becomes Assault Class B. If you cause injury (pain) in the course of touching someone, and the offense is Assault Class A. Do it to a public servant and it become a Third Degree Felony. Do it to the wrong public servant and you would spend some time in the jail ward at the county hospital.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M Paquette View Post
I should probably note that most of our local law enforcement folks are a bit saner, and would have kept this mess away from Dudley Do-Right the DA and handled it quietly. Sometimes people take 'by the book' a little too much to heart, and wind up causing more harm than good.
I don't know where you live, but many states have a mandatory arrest law on domestic violence cases. That's not the law in Texas, but many departments have more restrictive policy that makes arrest mandatory. No officer is going to risk his job if the law and evidence tell him he can make an arrest and policy mandates that arrest. Some states have made laws in which the prosecution will continue even if the victim recants the original allegations and appears as a witness for the defense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hakuna matata View Post
Okay now you have me curious. What possible reason would an employer want to know about your sex life? And what would be illegal? And more importantly how could they prove it? Or are you talking sodomy laws--are they even enforceable?
The law is the law, and having law breakers enforce laws would seem - silly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NW-Bound View Post
It's probably about prostitution, sex with a minor, or something like that. Or so I hope.
We don't have to go into all the gory details, do we? Just think of it this way: It's kinky if you use a feather as a sex toy. It's perverted if you use the whole chicken.
__________________

__________________
There is no pleasure in having nothing to do; the fun is having lots to do and not doing it. - Andrew Jackson
Leonidas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2011, 08:32 PM   #43
Recycles dryer sheets
glippy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: New England
Posts: 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by RetiredGypsy View Post

According to stats from the feds, it's about 50% in jail for drugs. I can't get the Bureau of Justice Statistics site to load, but maybe someone else will have better luck.
Well that's people in jail. Not people with criminal records. I assume criminal record simply means an arrest. I'm sure a lot of people with minor drug possession charges never do time, so won't be reflected in the prison population, but will be reflected in the population of people with criminal records due to the arrest.
__________________
glippy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2011, 08:43 PM   #44
Full time employment: Posting here.
RetiredGypsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 895
Quote:
Originally Posted by glippy View Post
Well that's people in jail. Not people with criminal records. I assume criminal record simply means an arrest. I'm sure a lot of people with minor drug possession charges never do time, so won't be reflected in the prison population, but will be reflected in the population of people with criminal records due to the arrest.
I was just adding information, not trying to say you're wrong.

It was one (among many) nice things about the military, that you could practically get a waiver for anything that wasn't too bad on your record. It has allowed a whole lot of people to have brighter futures than they otherwise may have.
__________________
I'm free and I like it!
RetiredGypsy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2011, 08:57 PM   #45
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Ally's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,190
We have to do criminal background checks on everyone at work every 2 yrs. I'm not really surprised at the statistics.
__________________
Ally is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2011, 08:58 PM   #46
Moderator Emeritus
Martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: minnesota
Posts: 13,212
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy29 View Post
There's a difference between habitual "career" stupid/criminal behavior and a one-and-done stupid non-violent mistake committed in one's youth. IMO, it really sucks that we've become such a scarlet letter society that one dumb, nonviolent transgression from decades ago that someone has learned from and never repeated stays with them as a scarlet letter for life. What incentive is there for people to learn from a mistake and better themselves if there are no second chances any more? Seems like we're making crime and reoffending a more attractive option by doing so.

Frankly, I think nonviolent first offense misdemeanor conviction records should be sealed after about 7-10 years, and never again disclosed to potential employers, insurers or credit providers unless someone offends again.
Absolutely agree.
__________________
.


No more lawyer stuff, no more political stuff, so no more CYA

Martha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2011, 09:39 PM   #47
Recycles dryer sheets
hakuna matata's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Small town outside of Seattle
Posts: 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonidas View Post
The law is the law, and having law breakers enforce laws would seem - silly.
So how many people have your arrested for the following?

I?m Under Arrest for What? Fifty Bizarre U.S. Laws - DivineCaroline-

I hope Nords has a boat there in Hawaii!

So there aren't any police out there who have violated the sodomy law (which I believe most states and jurisdictions have since repealed, but they were in place at some point). Interesting, I didn't know our boys in blue were so....er not silly.

But maybe I am obtuse (not the first time I have been accused of that!) but other then sodomy (or obvious things such as sex with a minor/prostitute, etc.) I honestly can't think of anything sexual that could be against the law. Maybe I am naive? I mean I agree having lawbreakers enforce the law would be silly--but what is against the law in the privacy of my bedroom. I needs to know so I can make sure I am staying on the straight and narrow! I mean what if my wife is making me break the law, I have to inform her right away!
__________________
"There is only one success: to be able to spend your life in your own way. ~Christopher Morley
hakuna matata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2011, 10:32 PM   #48
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,617
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonidas View Post
We don't have to go into all the gory details, do we? Just think of it this way: It's kinky if you use a feather as a sex toy. It's perverted if you use the whole chicken.
I'm tellin' ya, Leo, ya gotta start writin' this stuff down with an outline and chapter headings. A book agent would be able to turn you into a modern version of both Joseph Wambaugh and "Ed McBain". At the very least a Cosmo magazine article titled "How I Met My Wife".

Quote:
Originally Posted by hakuna matata View Post
I hope Nords has a boat there in Hawaii!
My boats shot torpedoes & missiles, so somehow the authorities never got around to checking my license...
__________________
*
*

The book written on E-R.org, "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement", on sale now! For more info see "About Me" in my profile.
I don't spend much time here anymore, so please send me a PM. Thanks.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2011, 11:12 PM   #49
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
NW-Bound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 19,431
Quote:
Originally Posted by hakuna matata View Post
Thanks for posting the above.
Arizona: Cutting down a cactus may earn you a twenty-five-year prison term.
I think this was meant to prevent the destruction of natural flora on public land. As such, what is so bizarre about it?

But, consider the following:
Virginia: Tickling a woman is unlawful.
I have had female forum members telling me via PMs or "Thank You" notes that my posts made them laugh or giggle. Would that be considered "verbal tickling" and get me in trouble?
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that can happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky
NW-Bound is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2011, 11:28 PM   #50
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,929
All this was forseen, of course. From the One True Book:

"Did you really think we want those laws observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them to be broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against... We're after power and we mean it... There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Reardon, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be
much easier to deal with."

-- Ayn Rand, "Atlas Shrugged", 1957
__________________
M Paquette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2011, 12:09 AM   #51
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonidas View Post
For example. But, find yourself a partner and engage in sexual activity out in the public eye, and it's called Lewd Conduct (class A).
Would this include getting it off in a car at night in a rest stop?
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2011, 05:11 AM   #52
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 404
Quote:
Originally Posted by haha View Post
Would this include getting it off in a car at night in a rest stop?
I think so. Back in the 70's, before the privacy of VCR'S, cable, and internet porn, there was a drive-in theatre in Jacksonville FL, that showed X rated films. Undercover police would go in there looking for violators.
__________________
ACC USN-(Ret)
BLS53 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2011, 09:22 AM   #53
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Leonidas's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Where the stars at night are big and bright
Posts: 2,847
Quote:
Originally Posted by haha View Post
Would this include getting it off in a car at night in a rest stop?
Not sure what you mean when by "getting it off", but I'm fairly certain that the statute covers it. And it's not just public places, you can be prosecuted for doing acts of sexual contact or intercourse someplace other than a public place, if you are, "...reckless about whether another person is present who will be offended or alarmed..." So, if you're in Texas, and want to invite the neighbors over for a little show it's best to make sure that they're into that before the big unveiling.

If you're talking about two folks doing the nasty in a car out in some public place (rest stop, side of the road, etc.), then the answer is "most def." It's a great charge to reduce citizen complaints regarding street prostitution. And even when it's not about prostitution, who wants to walk down the street with their mom or daughter and subject them to seeing Lorraine the secretary hopping up and down on Bob the IT guy's hard drive?

Edit to ad: Here you go Nords, one for the book:

So I just made up the scenario above, but it reminded me of a true story. One of my offices was in a federal building in the high rent district. We leased almost the entire building, but it was a single agency that didn't want to advertise it's presence. Very nondescript place with no signage other than the address. They even had the Federal Protective Svc cops wearing generic security guard uniforms.

Being a federal building, everyone was usually on super-secret high alert every April 19th. And on a particular April 19th. I came back to the building and saw the FPS guys with a freaked out looking couple they were taking into the building in cuffs. The guy was a business man with his tie undone, shirt untucked, pants barely on, and a very confused look on his face. The woman was even more upset, and kept screaming, "what is this place? who are you people?"

They were a couple of office workers who had been driving down the freeway nearby when their smoldering passion erupted into flames. Unfortunately, they picked the wrong parking garage as their love den. The FPS guys knocked them off as the van drove into the garage and quickly became suspicious when nobody exited. What followed before long was three FPS guys pointing their M-4's into the van and screaming "let me see your hands".
__________________
There is no pleasure in having nothing to do; the fun is having lots to do and not doing it. - Andrew Jackson
Leonidas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2011, 09:37 AM   #54
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 13,278
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy29 View Post
There's a difference between habitual "career" stupid/criminal behavior and a one-and-done stupid non-violent mistake committed in one's youth. IMO, it really sucks that we've become such a scarlet letter society that one dumb, nonviolent transgression from decades ago that someone has learned from and never repeated stays with them as a scarlet letter for life. What incentive is there for people to learn from a mistake and better themselves if there are no second chances any more? Seems like we're making crime and reoffending a more attractive option by doing so.

Frankly, I think nonviolent first offense misdemeanor conviction records should be sealed after about 7-10 years, and never again disclosed to potential employers, insurers or credit providers unless someone offends again.
On you last statement... I would agree.... but once it is out in the public, it will always be out in the public somewhere... just having gvmt not disclose is probably not going to get you there....


On you first thoughts.... I work for a small software company and we have rejected LOTS of people on their criminal background... I was surprised how many people would say they had nothing and then a DUI would show up... the problem is that it could have been when they were 18 to 20 and did not know any better... (heck, one person who works for me said she had a DUI when she was 18... her background check did not catch it since it was in a different state... if it had she would not be working for us... she also was a single teenage mom.... but now in her 40s has not had any problem for decades... and a productive member of society)...

Maybe we should stop the criminalizations of a lot of these under 20 things... now, if you do it again and again... all bets are off... but one and done... let's fix...
__________________
Texas Proud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2011, 09:52 AM   #55
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 13,278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonidas View Post
The law is the law, and having law breakers enforce laws would seem - silly.

Heck, a good percent of the Houston cops that I met when I knew one (in a bowling league) would have been arrested for DUI.... they drank beer like it was water and had not problem getting behind a wheel...

As you say... having law breakers enforce laws would seem silly... but we have them doing it all the time....
__________________
Texas Proud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2011, 09:54 AM   #56
Full time employment: Posting here.
RetiredGypsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Proud View Post
As you say... having law breakers enforce laws would seem silly... but we have them doing it all the time....
Seems even sillier to have law breakers making those laws in the first place, and yet here we are.
__________________
I'm free and I like it!
RetiredGypsy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2011, 11:23 AM   #57
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Leonidas's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Where the stars at night are big and bright
Posts: 2,847
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Proud View Post
Heck, a good percent of the Houston cops that I met when I knew one (in a bowling league) would have been arrested for DUI.... they drank beer like it was water and had not problem getting behind a wheel...

As you say... having law breakers enforce laws would seem silly... but we have them doing it all the time....
We hire people from the same general population that everyone here lives in. And there is an apparent abundant supply of people therein who are foolish makers of poor decisions.

So, other than the fact that I am still trying to figure out how "knowing one" transfers over to, "a good percentage", I am not surprised by your observation. (HPD has 5,300 cops, how many work friends did this guy bring by the bowling alley?)

Going back to the original point, if you are shocked that anybody, including cops, would break the rules and do something wrong, I would ask you what it's like living under that rock. But you don't really live under a rock, nor are you actually shocked by what you report. I suspect you had a point to make, but I'm not going to play guessing games with you.

But I will reiterate my original point, because it seems to be lost on you. I merely clarified for another poster that law enforcement agencies ask questions about applicants' sex-lives because past criminal behavior is pertinent when considering the qualifications. We don't hire people who ever committed a felony, or a class a misdemeanor, or recent lesser misdemeanors. And still every day people who have done those things show up and ask to be hired. Some even lie, deny and hide their past criminality in an attempt to get the job. A few even get past the polygraph and background investigation.

Neither do we allow employees to break the law with impunity. Breaking the law can lead to firing and loss of one's occupational license. Not to mention the whole going to jail thing. But some still do it, and some of them even have the audacity to try and hide their crimes.

But you, alone among all mortals, have divined the failings of your fellow human beings and decry the inherent hypocrisy.

Maybe you're hoping for utopian bliss. For myself, I prefer to continue to try and stave off the dystopian hell.

Have yourself a nice life.
__________________
There is no pleasure in having nothing to do; the fun is having lots to do and not doing it. - Andrew Jackson
Leonidas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2011, 12:50 PM   #58
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Ed_The_Gypsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: the City of Subdued Excitement
Posts: 5,293
Quote:
I gotta tell you, it looks so darn easy to end up with a criminal record in this country.
So it seems to me.
__________________
my bumpersticker:
"I am not in a hurry.
I am retired.
And I don't care how big your truck is."
Ed_The_Gypsy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2011, 12:53 PM   #59
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,929
It occurs to me that the mass criminalization of the populace is actually a very useful idea. By marking the records of a large portion of the population with misdemeanors, we can render them unemployable for the bulk of desirable jobs. This naturally reduces competition for jobs to the pool of those with clean records, while simultaneously creating an underclass of persons to perform various undesirable tasks 'off the books.' Since the very act of performing these undesirable jobs 'off the books' is itself a crime, we have created a self-sustaining perpetual underclass!

This ensures that, despite living in a society that prides itself on being free, with upward mobility for all, we will always have an abundant supply of cheap labor to bus tables, work in our slaughterhouses, shovel offal, and otherwise handle all those tasks that we can't automate yet want done cheaply.

It's an interesting social innovation, a caste system driven by criminalization for economic purposes.
__________________
M Paquette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2011, 12:53 PM   #60
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 13,278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonidas View Post
We hire people from the same general population that everyone here lives in. And there is an apparent abundant supply of people therein who are foolish makers of poor decisions.

So, other than the fact that I am still trying to figure out how "knowing one" transfers over to, "a good percentage", I am not surprised by your observation. (HPD has 5,300 cops, how many work friends did this guy bring by the bowling alley?)

Going back to the original point, if you are shocked that anybody, including cops, would break the rules and do something wrong, I would ask you what it's like living under that rock. But you don't really live under a rock, nor are you actually shocked by what you report. I suspect you had a point to make, but I'm not going to play guessing games with you.

But I will reiterate my original point, because it seems to be lost on you. I merely clarified for another poster that law enforcement agencies ask questions about applicants' sex-lives because past criminal behavior is pertinent when considering the qualifications. We don't hire people who ever committed a felony, or a class a misdemeanor, or recent lesser misdemeanors. And still every day people who have done those things show up and ask to be hired. Some even lie, deny and hide their past criminality in an attempt to get the job. A few even get past the polygraph and background investigation.

Neither do we allow employees to break the law with impunity. Breaking the law can lead to firing and loss of one's occupational license. Not to mention the whole going to jail thing. But some still do it, and some of them even have the audacity to try and hide their crimes.

But you, alone among all mortals, have divined the failings of your fellow human beings and decry the inherent hypocrisy.

Maybe you're hoping for utopian bliss. For myself, I prefer to continue to try and stave off the dystopian hell.

Have yourself a nice life.

You made a comment about not hiring law breakers...

Originally Posted by Leonidas
The law is the law, and having law breakers enforce laws would seem - silly.



Seeming to indicate that people that enforce the laws are not lawbreakers themselves... (ie, it is silly to have lawbreakers enforce laws)... I pointed out that I saw and heard (used to also go to lunch with some of Houstons finest... I would say I met about 200 of them) stories that indicated they were just like the rest of us... they would speed in thier own car and get away with it.... they would drink and drive and get away with it... they would hit their spouse and get away with it (that pesky domestic violence thing).....


Sure, I don't want people who are crooks to enforce the law.... but as someone else asked... what laws were being broken that you had to ask about their sex life

OH... BTW, a number of the guys talked about cheating on their wives... not against the law, but I would not want someone who lies (cheating is lying IMO) to enforce the law either... but there you go....
__________________

__________________
Texas Proud is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Need Record Retention Help haha FIRE and Money 3 05-17-2010 09:44 AM
How do you record streaming video? Zero Other topics 15 02-03-2010 08:43 AM
Vanguard funds' track record ats5g FIRE and Money 24 08-12-2008 12:24 PM
Record Dow! Whee! W2R FIRE and Money 277 11-12-2007 05:25 PM
Already a record hurricane year FinallyRetired Other topics 2 09-04-2007 11:51 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:41 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.