1 out of 4 Americans have a criminal record!

[Orchidflower]

I'm posting this, because this is on Yahoo this morning and I am so blown away by the number. Are they kidding? One in 4 Americans has a hard time getting a job because of their criminal record? Where have I been? In LaLa Land? It wouldn't even occur to me that someone's done prison time normally. Wow...I'm sitting here just stunned at that:

Help wanted — sixty-five million need not apply - Yahoo! News

 

[M Paquette]

I'm posting this, because this is on Yahoo this morning and I am so blown away by the number. Are they kidding? One in 4 Americans has a hard time getting a job because of their criminal record?

"Candidates must be able to pass: background check (no felonies or misdemeanors)," reads one ad placed by the bailed-out banking giant Bank of America. "Do not apply with any misdemeanors/felonies," warns another.
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Now recall that other thread, about Texas schoolchildren getting class C misdemeanor tickets. Now connect the dots.

Note that under current law, it may be possible for the record to be expunged or sealed at age 18. This affects only the courthouse record, and not the copies of records that are sold to private investigation and reporting companies, the ones used by non-government employers. Those will typically carry both the old record of the misdemeanor and the subsequent changes.

http://cbsdallas.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/ticketing_booklet_web.pdf

• The most common misdemeanors for which students are ticketed in Texas public schools are non-violent Disruption of Class or Transportation, Disorderly Conduct, and curfew violations (leaving campus without permission)—however, unlike juvenile court, children convicted or entering “guilty or no contest” pleas in municipal and justice courts have criminal records.
• Legislation (SB 1056) adopted by the 81st Texas Legislature in 2009 mandated criminal courts (including municipal and justice courts) immediately issue a nondisclosure order upon the conviction of a child for a misdemeanor offense punishable by fine only, however due to the large volume of these cases and the burden on courts to clear Class C tickets through the Texas Department of Public Safety, the “non-disclosure law” is not working—and Class C misdemeanors are staying on a youth’s “criminal record” accessible by future employers and others.

The trend to criminalize has been going on for a long time. Even those Objectivists noticed this a while back.

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

They'll just have to go into show business. Or finance.

Actually, some of us didn't get caught.

 

[NW-Bound]

Oh my god!

Now, that explains the behavior of people around me. I am totally surrounded! Time to go into the "mountains".

 

[Backpacker]

I'm a lender for a small town credit union and fequently we see loan applicants (over 40 years old) with a blank credit profile. our next step is to search the state parole / prison website, and you would not believe how many times we find our applicant has been a guest of the state for the last decade.

 

[e86s54]

I worked for a computer networking company in the 80s and we won a big contract with the police dept. To work on the project required most of us to go though a security clearance. Many just quit as they knew they would not pass.

That was an eye opener for me.

 

[W2R]

I don't have a criminal record (are you kidding?), and neither does F. My former co-workers didn't have criminal records either, because they all had to have a security clearance. Same with his former co-workers.

The rest of you can, uh, go sit over there and discuss, while I doublecheck the deadbolts on my doors.

 

[Mulligan]

Beat the low level offenders with a cane, and wipe their record clean, so they can get jobs and stay off public assistance!

 

[NW-Bound]

The rest of you can, uh, go sit over there and discuss, while I doublecheck the deadbolts on my doors.

Just think, eh, that you have been exchanging posts with some ex-cons?

But you have nothing to fear from me, as I have never worked for the government but have been involved in works that required security clearance. And I do not even know where you live.

 

[NW-Bound]

Beat the low level offenders with a cane, and wipe their record clean, so they can get jobs and stay off public assistance!

Great idea!

I say we can raise some money by auctioning the right to cane the offenders. There are people I would like to cane myself. Let's start with DUI.

 

[M Paquette]

The rest of you can, uh, go sit over there and discuss, while I doublecheck the deadbolts on my doors.

There are a fair number of 'criminals' caught in this situation whose big mistake was being an 18 year old at a party that was busted for alcohol. That's enough for an 'underage in possession' wobbler. If lucky, it's charged as an infraction. If the DA or sheriff has competition for re-election, it gets charged as a misdemeanor ("Tough on crime!").

The usual 'dumb kid' maneuver is to plead guilty or 'no contest', pay the fine, and later discover he's now unemployable. A better move is to plead not guilty and ask for a public defender. On a first offense that should lead to a diversion program and no misdemeanor on the record.

Yeah, I think we criminalize too damn many people. It's stupid, expensive, but looks really good in that "Tough on Crime!" re-election literature. I've also been stuck on jury duty on cases that should never have been in court, courtesy of that "Tough on Crime!" idiot DA. (Yes, we acquitted after spending a few days listening in disbelief.)

 

[Jay_Gatsby]

I worked for a computer networking company in the 80s and we won a big contract with the police dept. To work on the project required most of us to go though a security clearance. Many just quit as they knew they would not pass.

That was an eye opener for me.

I negotiate contracts for a living and often see drug testing as part of a background check provision. You can't imagine the pushback I get internally...from executives.

 

[W2R]

Just think, eh, that you have been exchanging posts with some ex-cons?

But you have nothing to fear from me, as I have never worked for the government but have been involved in works that required security clearance. And I do not even know where you live.

That's a relief. Of course, that could have been years ago....

 

[Bestwifeever]

DH had a background check done for a volunteer position and was called in to explain how he had been in prison for murder and armed robbery and was currently dead. SS numbers mixed up, similar name. I hope.

 

[Nords]

Actually, some of us didn't get caught.

I don't have a criminal record (are you kidding?), and neither does F.

I've never been caught either.

Sounds like a great ER planning tool...

Sounds like an interesting way to get out of jury duty, too.

I've also been stuck on jury duty on cases that should never have been in court, courtesy of that "Tough on Crime!" idiot DA. (Yes, we acquitted after spending a few days listening in disbelief.)

I did one of those last July and convicted a guy for possessing a fraction of a gram of crystal methamphetamine in a pipe.

During the trial (especially during the defense attorney's objections, and the occasional offhand police witness remark) it was clear that the defendant had done things that were much worse than this, and had succeeded in pissing off most of the Honolulu Police Dept. I don't know if he actually had to go to trial on those other issues (if indeed they had the probable cause or evidence to do so) but it was pretty clear that they wanted him off the streets.

I wonder if some of these mock trials are just for the purpose of awarding a third strike. I don't recall whether Hawaii has that law.

 

[sailor]

I don't have a criminal record (are you kidding?), and neither does F.

Are you sure? Have you or Frank ever got a speeding ticket?

 

[freebird5825]

Clean as a whistle here. I had to be to be a defense contractor and then employed as a DoD civil servant for 18+ years.

I've only had 3 traffic tickets
1. stop sign roll-thru on campus
2. a speeding ticket driving like a bat outta h*ll to get Harry Chapin tickets in Delhi NY in between classes and college work study at night), and
3. a cell phone ticket when I first got it in 2005. It was the first and only time I ever answered it while at the wheel, but the state trooper who saw me wouldn't cut me a break.

So you can ALL relax.

However, I am now FIREd and free as a bird (get it? huh? huh? ) to do what I want.
Shall I choose Illegal, Immoral, or Fattening? Touch choice...

 

[bssc]

Growing up as a kid, I had diplomatic immunity. I see now that this was a good thing since my record is clean.

 

[NW-Bound]

Shall I choose Illegal, Immoral, or Fattening? Touch choice...

I'd like to hear about the immoral choices... That sounds more interesting.

Er, never mind. Andy surely wants to keep this forum PG-13, and it got awfully close to R-rated a few times.

 

[rescueme]

My 5th grade nun once said I did not have moral turpitude.

Does that count?

BTW, a speeding ticket does not fall under the felonies or misdemeanors label cited in the article W2R/F are good to go (back to w*rk, if they wish )...

 

[freebird5825]

I'd like to hear about the immoral choices... That sounds more interesting.

Er, never mind. Andy surely wants to keep this forum PG-13, and it got awfully close to R-rated a few times.

Gauntlet dropped...wooooo hooooooo

Stay tuned...

 

[hakuna matata]

DH had a background check done for a volunteer position and was called in to explain how he had been in prison for murder and armed robbery and was currently dead. SS numbers mixed up, similar name. I hope.

You are the Best wife ever aren't you. I hope my wife would stand by me too Alas I am one of the 75% that is clear and clean so I am good.

See instead of looking it as 25% having a criminal record, ya just gotta flip it around and it sounds a lot better. Over 75% of American DON'T have a criminal record. Feel better?

 

[FIREd]

Yeah, I think we criminalize too damn many people. It's stupid, expensive, but looks really good in that "Tough on Crime!" re-election literature.

Sometimes, I scare myself by watching cop shows on TV. I gotta tell you, it looks so darn easy to end up with a criminal record in this country. So much of what constitutes a crime seems based on judgment calls rather than hard evidence. When does my driving become reckless? When does my conduct become disorderly?

Since a simple misdemeanor could get me deported, I ain't playing with the long arm of the law.

 

[ziggy29]

There's a difference between habitual "career" stupid/criminal behavior and a one-and-done stupid non-violent mistake committed in one's youth. IMO, it really sucks that we've become such a scarlet letter society that one dumb, nonviolent transgression from decades ago that someone has learned from and never repeated stays with them as a scarlet letter for life. What incentive is there for people to learn from a mistake and better themselves if there are no second chances any more? Seems like we're making crime and reoffending a more attractive option by doing so.

Frankly, I think nonviolent first offense misdemeanor conviction records should be sealed after about 7-10 years, and never again disclosed to potential employers, insurers or credit providers unless someone offends again.

 

[Leonidas]

It will be interesting to see how employers defend "no misdemeanors" as a BFJQ to bar a 50 year-old from working at the GAP because she was arrested as a teen for juvenile in possession of alcoholic beverage.

The few times I've dealt with the EEOC have taught me that they seem to believe that all employers are evil and it's their mission to punish them severely. But I have to believe this kind of hiring practice is probably going to be found discriminatory, and rightly so.

Most jobs in law enforcement don't have an up-front "no misdemeanors" disqualification. The FBI says no felony convictions, my former employer says no felony or class a misdemeanors (and at least 10 years since your conviction for anything class b), most agencies have similar policies.

As perverse as some of you may think this, as far as we are concerned it really is against the law even if you're not caught. So, we do get to ask you about every criminal act you ever committed, and use that as possible disqualifier. That means that the we reject 35 year-old applicants with no criminal record (i.e. didn't get caught), stellar academic and work records because they committed a felony at age 17.

There was probably a lot of self-selection going on, but we still rejected a lot of people for on-the-record convictions. There were plenty more for all of the "didn't-get-caught" crew.

[And then there were all the "gee, I didn't know that was against the law" people - caught many of them when we started asking the questions about their sex lives.]

There are a lot of people who have broken the law, but not all got caught. This kind of hiring practice seems to be more inclined to catch up the poor and less-sophisticated. The educated executive type is better able to keep his criminality hidden than those lower on the socioeconomic ladder.

If it's not discriminatory, then run everybody through polygraph and see what shakes out.