Join Early Retirement Today
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 09-05-2014, 08:30 PM   #61
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
timo2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Rio Rancho
Posts: 1,438
Quote:
Originally Posted by samclem View Post
And the minimum wage hurts worker leverage.
true to a certain extent. All labor regulations hurt worker leverage. Part of what aided the demise of labor unions is that much of the agenda they used to fight for was enacted into law by 1980. But for average workers, that's a good thing. No having to organize and take on the powers-that-be, and you get a safe, clean workplace with time for lunch. Thanks to the workers before them. If the fast food workers can accomplish something lasting for themselves, more power to them.

BTW, I no longer eat at those places, and have determined that people that do should be called 'greaseatarians'.
__________________

__________________
"We live the lives we lead because of the thoughts we think" Michael O’Neill
timo2 is offline  
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 09-05-2014, 08:38 PM   #62
Moderator
Walt34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Eastern WV Panhandle
Posts: 16,579
Quote:
Originally Posted by timo2 View Post
BTW, I no longer eat at those places, and have determined that people that do should be called 'greaseatarians'.
I don't when alternatives are available. But when pressed for time even Mickyd's offers a halfway decent grilled chicken salad. If you skip the dressing it is still a healthy meal so that's what I get.

It's down in the lower right hand corner of the menu so you sort of have to look for it.
__________________

__________________
I heard the call to do nothing. So I answered it.
Walt34 is offline  
Old 09-05-2014, 09:58 PM   #63
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: No Where for Very Long
Posts: 747
Slightly off topic but the 'Living Wage' debate misses the point.

Many fast food jobs are entry level; an applicant gains employment, learns about work ethics, gains experience, then moves on to a better job.

As other posters have said, in really tight labor markets fast food restaurants are already paying $15 an hour. When the economy is booming the market will dictate higher wages no matter what the minimum wage is...
__________________

Lancelot is offline  
Old 09-06-2014, 12:28 PM   #64
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,361
The problem is that there aren't a ton of better jobs being created. Many of the jobs that used to be middle class jobs have been replaced by $10/hr or less jobs. Our economy has been really good at making $10/hr or less jobs or $40/hr or more jobs. The middle ground has been shrinking for 30 years.

We haven't had a really tight job market for people without a college degree in an awfully long time.

Fast food is no longer just serving as an entry level employer. For millions of people, that is all that is available.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancelot View Post
Slightly off topic but the 'Living Wage' debate misses the point.

Many fast food jobs are entry level; an applicant gains employment, learns about work ethics, gains experience, then moves on to a better job.

As other posters have said, in really tight labor markets fast food restaurants are already paying $15 an hour. When the economy is booming the market will dictate higher wages no matter what the minimum wage is...
__________________
Hamlet is offline  
Old 09-06-2014, 12:34 PM   #65
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 3,008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamlet View Post
Fast food is no longer just serving as an entry level employer. For millions of people, that is all that is available.
Yeah, I think that's a big problem. Manufacturing and the trades dried up, high schools got fixated on getting 99 4/100ths % of their graduates into secondary education, vocational ed programs such as Auto Repair and Welding went out the window. So now you've got people with degrees in Phys. Ed or Musical Theatre (or, worse, some college but no degree) and student loans and all they can get is McDonald's or Starbucks.
__________________
athena53 is offline  
Old 09-06-2014, 12:42 PM   #66
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Austin
Posts: 496
Quote:
Originally Posted by athena53 View Post
Yeah, I think that's a big problem. Manufacturing and the trades dried up, high schools got fixated on getting 99 4/100ths % of their graduates into secondary education, vocational ed programs such as Auto Repair and Welding went out the window. So now you've got people with degrees in Phys. Ed or Musical Theatre (or, worse, some college but no degree) and student loans and all they can get is McDonald's or Starbucks.
I think that pretty much sums it up.
__________________
ER'd 6/1/2014 @ age 53. AA=70/30, WR=3%
Looking4Ward is offline  
Old 09-06-2014, 01:32 PM   #67
Moderator
ziggy29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 15,613
We live in the Eagle Ford oil and gas play in south central Texas. The unemployment rate here is less than 4% (translation: just about anyone who wants a job and is willing and able to work *has* a job). The town's one restaurant keeps cutting back hours, not because business is bad (it's almost always packed) but because they are having trouble keeping fully staffed. Local fast food joints in nearby towns are advertising starting wages anywhere from $9.50 to $11 per hour. And yet the prices here at those joints are no higher than they are in other areas of the state where the starting pay is closer to the minimum wage of $7.25.

Now $10 is a far cry from $15, but so far we're not really seeing higher prices for too much here in a tight labor market (with one exception: construction projects; demand for tradespeople far exceeds the supply). For years I've been saying we do youth a disservice by pushing them to college when their desires and aptitudes may be more suited for the trades, and right now, if you're eager and willing to relocate you can do VERY well in the trades here right now.
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)

RIP to Reemy, my avatar dog (2003 - 9/16/2017)
ziggy29 is offline  
Old 09-06-2014, 01:38 PM   #68
Full time employment: Posting here.
gcgang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 928
It's not fair that some people make more than others. Everyone should be equal. Comrades, unite!


Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum
__________________
In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. YB
gcgang is offline  
Old 09-06-2014, 01:56 PM   #69
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
growing_older's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,608
I must have very low brow tastes as I much prefer fast food to the caviar in another thread. But I don't enjoy taking my chances with employees who cannot make change, cannot answer questions about their products, have difficulty working their cash registers or getting my order right. Then there's a kind of blind hope that people in the back who maybe are even less capable than the ones they let be in contact with the public will actually make the food correctly, properly cook burgers until done, generally use sanitary practices and not serve me food they dropped on the floor. Usually it works out to at least meet my low standards and I pretend the people do the right thing, despite my low confidence in them.

But if wages in fast food places double, perhaps a better quality of employee will want to work there. Or perhaps that will be the next push or more automation. I already know I can work an order kiosk better than most fast food cashiers can work their cash registers. I'd be very happy to see if an automated kitchen can also produce more reliable product than the minimum wage teenage kitchen does. It seems likely to be a significant improvement in product quality. I'm all in favor of this change whichever direction it goes.
__________________
growing_older is offline  
Old 09-06-2014, 02:04 PM   #70
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
growing_older's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,608
Quote:
But when pressed for time even Mickyd's offers a halfway decent grilled chicken salad.
Yuck. Apparently tastes vary, as to my taste this is one of their worst products. The salad is a fine, probably some bagged mix they get in bulk, but the grilled chicken doesn't seem to be grilled, it's simmered in some kind of broth and either has grill lines painted on or it's grilled momentarily after it's already cooked. I always assumed they put this on their menu so they could claim to have a healthier option, so it didn't have to actually be prepared to taste good, and perhaps they don't actually want it to be too appealing to keep demand for other options high. Preparing an actual grilled chicken breast is really really easy, so there must be a reason they cook them this strange way instead.
__________________
growing_older is offline  
Old 09-06-2014, 03:25 PM   #71
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Kerrville,Tx
Posts: 2,726
Quote:
Originally Posted by growing_older View Post
I must have very low brow tastes as I much prefer fast food to the caviar in another thread. But I don't enjoy taking my chances with employees who cannot make change, cannot answer questions about their products, have difficulty working their cash registers or getting my order right. Then there's a kind of blind hope that people in the back who maybe are even less capable than the ones they let be in contact with the public will actually make the food correctly, properly cook burgers until done, generally use sanitary practices and not serve me food they dropped on the floor. Usually it works out to at least meet my low standards and I pretend the people do the right thing, despite my low confidence in them.

But if wages in fast food places double, perhaps a better quality of employee will want to work there. Or perhaps that will be the next push or more automation. I already know I can work an order kiosk better than most fast food cashiers can work their cash registers. I'd be very happy to see if an automated kitchen can also produce more reliable product than the minimum wage teenage kitchen does. It seems likely to be a significant improvement in product quality. I'm all in favor of this change whichever direction it goes.
Actually you see over time a deskilling of the order taking position. I recall in the mid 1970s fast food joints did not have the computers to do orders, but rather the order was taken by paper and pencil. Then the order taker came up with a version of the total which might or might no be right. It was interesting to do the total yourself. I would not call them for a few cents to little, but would for to much or over about .30 under. On the making change issue teaching folks to make change the old fashioned way would work, i.e. count it out to the customer, would still work.
__________________
meierlde is offline  
Old 09-06-2014, 03:41 PM   #72
Moderator Emeritus
aja8888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: The Woodlands, TX
Posts: 7,186
Quote:
Originally Posted by growing_older View Post
Yuck. Apparently tastes vary, as to my taste this is one of their worst products. The salad is a fine, probably some bagged mix they get in bulk, but the grilled chicken doesn't seem to be grilled, it's simmered in some kind of broth and either has grill lines painted on or it's grilled momentarily after it's already cooked. I always assumed they put this on their menu so they could claim to have a healthier option, so it didn't have to actually be prepared to taste good, and perhaps they don't actually want it to be too appealing to keep demand for other options high. Preparing an actual grilled chicken breast is really really easy, so there must be a reason they cook them this strange way instead.
I've done some projects at the wholesale distribution warehouses for fast foods (Yum Brands, for one). I'd hate to tell you what comes in pre-cooked from vendors and either kept refrigerated or frozen. I have to believe, after having several of those salads, that the grilled chicken part is not grilled on location.
__________________
aja8888 is offline  
Old 09-06-2014, 04:05 PM   #73
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Rustic23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Lake Livingston, Tx
Posts: 3,624
OK, this is not suppose to be political, but it really is. We have had a minimum wage for a very long time. It has not reduced poverty. It has never been a living wage, what ever that is. I am sure it is different from me, you, Donald Trump or a family living on $30 k a year. Also, who says one person is suppose to earn a 'family living wage'. I know of very few families where both adults don't work.

Politicians know that most of the electorate could care less about the economics of 'minimum wage'. Like Corporate Tax, they know it is popular, or unpopular with their party, and it fills their coffers. Labor Unions are in full support because their contracts are tied to it.

Minimum wage increase will only increase price with relationship to the percentage labor is to the total cost of doing business. If the increase is small, business will work around it. Fewer full time employees, reduce benefits, reduce hours worked, bring in automation, take a little lower return on investment and so on. But in the end, business must have an ROE for the risk involved or money will seek it's return.
__________________
If it is after 5:00 when I post I reserve the right to disavow anything I posted.
Rustic23 is offline  
Old 09-06-2014, 04:30 PM   #74
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,604
Quote:
Originally Posted by aja8888 View Post
I've done some projects at the wholesale distribution warehouses for fast foods (Yum Brands, for one). I'd hate to tell you what comes in pre-cooked from vendors and either kept refrigerated or frozen. I have to believe, after having several of those salads, that the grilled chicken part is not grilled on location.
Friend of mine grew up working in fast food places, his DF owned a few franchises. He said after getting out of working there it took him years to ever try to eat fast food again. He'll avoid it whenever possible, on the occasions I've seem him eat some, there are certain foods he still refuses to eat based on how he saw it handled.

I don't think the fast food or frozen chicken products are real chicken anyways.
__________________
MRG is online now  
Old 09-06-2014, 04:53 PM   #75
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Pittsburgh, PA suburbs
Posts: 1,769
Many years ago, a friend of my son's who worked during his high school years for a national fast food outlet, advised him to always order the popular, mainstream items on the menu if he wanted freshness.
__________________
WhoDaresWins is offline  
Old 09-06-2014, 04:55 PM   #76
Moderator Emeritus
aja8888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: The Woodlands, TX
Posts: 7,186
These days, all I order at MickeyD's is a vanilla cone and a black coffee. I guess I am on the ice cream and coffee diet!
__________________
aja8888 is offline  
Old 09-06-2014, 06:10 PM   #77
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 11,616
Like many of us, I worked in fast food (Carl's Jr, in Calif) during HS. I never saw anything that made me think twice about ordering food there. Frozen? Sure, much of it came in frozen (meat patties, etc). It's a good way to reduce the growth of foodborne pathogens, and it saves money in spoilage. Centrally made? Yes, they aren't making the chili for the hot dogs in 500 restaurants, it comes from a central kitchen/plant--does that reduce its quality? How?

If you want the burger hot at a fast food place, make it a special order ("no pickle"), that way you won't get one that has been "floating" on the warmer for any length of time (I never saw anyone in the back line remove an item on the warmer and modify it to fit a special order).

I think a person is more likely to get sick from something eaten at a little diner ("hey, somebody ordered the white sauce again this week. Is this still good?") or at home. After all, why believe that the workers in the grocery store where we buy the stuff will be any more diligent about cleanliness and food storage temps than the workers in a McDonalds?
__________________
"Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite." - R. Heinlein
samclem is online now  
Old 09-06-2014, 06:12 PM   #78
Moderator
ziggy29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 15,613
Quote:
Originally Posted by samclem View Post
If you want the burger hot at a fast food place, make it a special order ("no pickle"), that way you won't get one that has been "floating" on the warmer for any length of time (I never saw anyone in the back line remove an item on the warmer and modify it to fit a special order).
Agreed, but in that case they shouldn't be too angered if it's not as "fast" as usual.
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)

RIP to Reemy, my avatar dog (2003 - 9/16/2017)
ziggy29 is offline  
Old 09-06-2014, 06:25 PM   #79
Moderator
Walt34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Eastern WV Panhandle
Posts: 16,579
Quote:
Originally Posted by growing_older View Post
But if wages in fast food places double, perhaps a better quality of employee will want to work there.
No doubt. When I left my job over a year ago because of a reduction in hiring standards and an accompanying pay reduction the federal agency fought those changes since they had dealt with those shortcomings before and wanted a better class of contractor employees doing the work. That was the reason we were paid twice the normal industry standard in the first place.

What they got for the money was a more experienced worker staff and better reliability because the contractor could be a lot pickier about who they hired, and turnover was almost zero. For example when we were forecast to have a heavy snowfall I knew some people were not going to be able to come to work. Even though it was supposed to be my days off, I lived 3 miles from the site and have a 4WD pickup truck, and I told my supervisor that I would be available. Sure enough, he called and I came in at the overtime rate.

That doesn't happen with an underpaid staff.
__________________
I heard the call to do nothing. So I answered it.
Walt34 is offline  
Old 09-06-2014, 07:02 PM   #80
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 462
Quote:
Originally Posted by dtbach View Post
Was thinking of buying some McDonald's but think I'll wait to see what happens with this.

Don't get political but what chance do you think this will come to pass?
It will sooner than later because wages need to go up in this country.

A $15hr min wage will be a incredible boost to the economy and will help companies like Walmart and McDonalds.

The working poor are going to force the change.
__________________

__________________
purplesky is offline  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Retire early in declining industry with average wages Blux Hi, I am... 3 02-23-2013 10:52 AM
Do you like fast food for weight loss? DFW_M5 Health and Early Retirement 1 04-22-2012 12:48 PM
Health Insurance Tax = Higher Wages? easysurfer FIRE and Money 18 11-10-2009 11:10 PM
Questions, strong dollar or weak dollar ? frayne FIRE and Money 7 10-01-2007 08:59 PM
Fast Food must be Addicting. newguy88 Other topics 6 12-09-2006 10:15 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:33 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.