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Old 09-07-2014, 03:04 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
Then please provide some numbers. I'd be interested to see a source that breaks out employment for grads that got degrees in an area of current good demand. Getting a degree and going into debt for a major with poor job prospects is a problem - one that the student needs to take some responsibility for. We can't ask business to create jobs for graduates just because they have degrees, the workers need to bring something to the table - and in some cases, they are bringing menus and coffee to the tables, because they didn't obtain in-demand skills/education.
Grads in a specific major with just the right skills should be able to find jobs. What's changed is that those of us who graduated many years ago with a more generalized degree, even if we went on to a specialized graduate degree COULD end up with a career that was not based upon the original major or skill set - at least I did. Rather, there was a demand for "well-educated" individuals who could write, interpret complex material, analyze data sets and so. My friends' kids who today graduate even with, say, a degree in engineering are having trouble finding jobs IF the market has moved on from the specific engineering subspecialty that seemed to be in demand four or five years earlier when they entered college.

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And others on the globe are benefiting. Personally, I have trouble crying for myself and my own standard of living declining some, if it means some truly desperate person in a third world country is benefiting. I guess I'm just an old softie, but being poor there looks a lot tougher than being poor in the USA.

-ERD50
I really buy into this and am actively preparing my kid not to expect the lifestyle she's been "given." This impacts her college options, my retirement lifestyle, how I am structuring my estate ...
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Old 09-07-2014, 03:04 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
Then please provide some numbers. I'd be interested to see a source that breaks out employment for grads that got degrees in an area of current good demand. Getting a degree and going into debt for a major with poor job prospects is a problem - one that the student needs to take some responsibility for. We can't ask business to create jobs for graduates just because they have degrees, the workers need to bring something to the table - and in some cases, they are bringing menus and coffee to the tables, because they didn't obtain in-demand skills/education.






I don't think it is for you or I to decide.

But I have to go cut up some tree branches that came down in yesterday's storm - that should give you time to come up with some numbers...




And others on the globe are benefiting. Personally, I have trouble crying for myself and my own standard of living declining some, if it means some truly desperate person in a third world country is benefiting. I guess I'm just an old softie, but being poor there looks a lot tougher than being poor in the USA.




I guess I'm not sure where you are going with all these examples? We are in agreement, no? There are all sorts of variations of price fixing, I'm not denying that. But I think I'm being consistent - I don't like any of them. As I mentioned, utilities are sometimes an exception, sometimes it makes sense to have a regulated monopoly and you therefore really need some price regulation as well.

-ERD50
[Mod Edit]

But I am pro worker and I want the American middle-class to get a fair shot?

I don't need to throw up numbers on here and argue with you because we have different views of the global economy and how American workers should be compensated for their labor.

I personally think we need a $15hr minimum wage. You don't and I respect that.

I have had enough of this race to the bottom economy.

I am really sick of hearing Corporate America bitch about the high corporate tax rates that they don't actually pay.
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Old 09-07-2014, 03:12 PM   #123
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I hear a pig coming, or at least there should be one right around the corner. Shame some posters resort to calling names. Nothing ERD50 has said would I interpret as "anti-worker' or "anti-american'
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Old 09-07-2014, 03:31 PM   #124
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Old 09-07-2014, 04:28 PM   #125
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I hear a pig coming, or at least there should be one right around the corner. Shame some posters resort to calling names. Nothing ERD50 has said would I interpret as "anti-worker' or "anti-american'
He has a clear Global view of economics and thats fine.

But you can't have it both ways.

Either you are in or you are out? There has to be balance in any successful economy. We have lost balance in America.

ERD50 has a elitists view that workers are disposable and should beg to participate in corporate Americas success?

Somewhere in the last 30 years we have decided that middle-class Americans have no value and that they should be glad to make $10hr?

Sorry but this is not the America I want to live in.

So workers will help make the change sooner than later.
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Old 09-07-2014, 04:40 PM   #126
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Characterizing other members and rephrasing their posts rarely leads to a civil discussion. Why not stick to making your point, letting others make theirs, and dropping the name calling.
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Old 09-07-2014, 05:02 PM   #127
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Characterizing other members and rephrasing their posts rarely leads to a civil discussion. Why not stick to making your point, letting others make theirs, and dropping the name calling.
So I should apologize for being a protectionist and caring about my fellow Americans in the low middle-class getting a living wage?

He made his point and its clear he could care less about the low wage workers in our economy. Millions of people don't care? Thats their right.

I do care. I am not sorry for that.
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Old 09-07-2014, 05:08 PM   #128
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$15 dollar fast food wages

Not long after I joined, I wrote something that could have been taken as a bit rude. Someone tactfully pointed that out and an apology (from me) was in order.
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Old 09-07-2014, 05:14 PM   #129
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$15 dollar fast food wages

Maybe it's all our fault. We want appreciation and our dividends. Companies have to cut training costs. Lower labor costs. Stop funding pensions, because this quarters EPS is more important than their long term success or the employees. Government then gives them tax welfare. All to pay off the shareholders. But now we have low paid, untrained, no retirement sections of the economy, competing with outsourcing. Oh, and their poor, so their schools dont have as much cash as the nicer areas where "hard workers" live.


Hey, but i get mine.

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Old 09-07-2014, 05:22 PM   #130
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So I should apologize for being a protectionist and caring about my fellow Americans in the low middle-class getting a living wage?

He made his point and its clear he could care less about the low wage workers in our economy. Millions of people don't care? Thats their right.

I do care. I am not sorry for that.
My post was about civil discussion and unrelated to the topic of this thread. You do not need me to be your straw man.

I would suggest you reread this post and give it careful consideration. E-R Forum members live and work around the world and do not have a sole US-centric view of issues. This topic can be must be discussed with respect to other participants and points of view.
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Old 09-07-2014, 05:50 PM   #131
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What ever happened to working harder, doing an outstanding job, taking more responsibility, and getting promoted to get a raise?

I don't understand this "We are worth $$ so pay up or we'll shut you down" stuff.
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Old 09-07-2014, 05:53 PM   #132
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Sure, express your views, give facts and figures, defend your position, but don't call other member names such as 'anti-american', fighting words from where I come from! And, just because I don't agree with you in that the government should say how much or little a worker should get, does not make me anti worker or anti American any more than your views make you pro-american! In fact I will guess that there are more than a few that believe your views are just the opposite. However it does not further the discussion to call names or insult your fellow posters.
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Old 09-07-2014, 05:58 PM   #133
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So I should apologize for being a protectionist and caring about my fellow Americans in the low middle-class getting a living wage?

He made his point and its clear he could care less about the low wage workers in our economy. Millions of people don't care? Thats their right.

I do care. I am not sorry for that.
ERD50 and I are mostly in agreement on this issue and I don't believe that he or I don't care about low wage workers, we just don't agree that wage price fixing is the answer.

Protectionism does not work and leads to both trade wars and actual wars. Who fights the actual wars? By and large it's mostly the lower class. I'd like to see all of our citizens advance but that will mean more education, more training, better work ethic, etc.
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Old 09-07-2014, 06:01 PM   #134
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$15 dollar fast food wages

I've been "moderated" three times in three years. That's probably more often than Joan Rivers had sex (if you believe her).

The first time it was me asking to have a botched attempt at a poll deleted, the second one was when someone was driving me crazy with their posts and I decided to slap them down, the third is when I unwittingly posted a "naked link" (a web link with no summary or explanation).
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Old 09-07-2014, 06:03 PM   #135
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I moved to get better jobs or get promoted. You have to do what you have to do if you want to get ahead.
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Old 09-07-2014, 06:09 PM   #136
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My post was about civil discussion and unrelated to the topic of this thread. You do not need me to be your straw man.

I would suggest you reread this post and give it careful consideration. E-R Forum members live and work around the world and do not have a sole US-centric view of issues. This topic can be must be discussed with respect to other participants and points of view.
That was my whole point.

He and many people dont view our economy U.S. centric. I do.

I am rooting for the American worker. I am rooting for the American economy.

Maybe because its my home team and our future depends on it ?

If a individual roots against America or its workers and favors cheap foreign labor to make a buck and hurt my country or choose to not pay a living wage to low income workers than they are in my view. anti American worker and anti America.

It seems pretty simple and straightforward.

Yes its a global economy forever but its time to look out for number 1 again. America needs to come first.

I will review the rules.
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Old 09-07-2014, 06:14 PM   #137
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I moved to get better jobs or get promoted. You have to do what you have to do if you want to get ahead.
I wish I could transfer. I would move tomorrow.
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Old 09-07-2014, 06:29 PM   #138
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That was my whole point.

He and many people dont view our economy U.S. centric. I do.

I am rooting for the American worker. I am rooting for the American economy.

Maybe because its my home team and our future depends on it ?

If a individual roots against America or its workers and favors cheap foreign labor to make a buck and hurt my country or choose to not pay a living wage to low income workers than they are in my view. anti American worker and anti America.

It seems pretty simple and straightforward.

Yes its a global economy forever but its time to look out for number 1 again. America needs to come first.

I will review the rules.
Just because I don't think setting higher minimum wages is the answer or that protectionism in international trade will work does not mean that I'm anti-American worker. I can root for America yet still see the handwriting on the wall, but maybe you can't.
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Old 09-07-2014, 06:30 PM   #139
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ERD50 and I are mostly in agreement on this issue and I don't believe that he or I don't care about low wage workers, we just don't agree that wage price fixing is the answer.

Protectionism does not work and leads to both trade wars and actual wars. Who fights the actual wars? By and large it's mostly the lower class. I'd like to see all of our citizens advance but that will mean more education, more training, better work ethic, etc.
You guys have every right to this view and you might be correct.

But I would say after 30 years of Americans not getting a wage increase(actually pay cuts) and losing pensions and paying for healthcare something has to give?

People always mention more education but I just saw another story on the national news about how college grads are working more jobs that don't even require a college degree these days.

College grads are just getting outsourced and lets face it. Corporate America just isn't hiring?

The majority of new jobs being created are now low wage type jobs that are being filled by many college grads.

So why not $15hr for minimum wage? This goes way beyond fast food workers.
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Old 09-07-2014, 06:36 PM   #140
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Just because I don't think setting higher minimum wages is the answer or that protectionism in international trade will work does not mean that I'm anti-American worker. I can root for America yet still see the handwriting on the wall, but maybe you can't.
No I get it. Thats clear.

Corporate America uses protectionism where and when it benefits them? Right?

But American workers don't? Why?

Because there is no balance in our economy? Get it?

Corporate America uses protectionism in America in the Right to work states keeping wages really low. Get it?

Thats the writing on the wall. See it?
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