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Old 05-22-2013, 02:55 PM   #21
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It is hard to teach old dogs new tricks.
True, but thank goodness the old dogs come along eventually or we'd still be riding horses and communicating by snail mail/rotary phone among other old tricks...
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Old 05-22-2013, 02:59 PM   #22
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...
It appears the "revolt" was more simple resistance to change among the installed base, which is sad, but no question MS has had their heads handed to them with Win8. YMMV
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It is hard to teach old dogs new tricks.
I disagree. Most people embrace positive change. But change for change's sake, or change that does not markedly improve the experience? Why bother to relearn anything for no benefit? People legitimately gripe about that. Every change took effort for the developers, and can create bugs - it's frustrating when the effort isn't applied to changes/fixes that provide clear benefit. Otherwise, leave well enough alone.

The Linux/Ubuntu community went through this with the 'Unity" (IOS/tablet-like) interface. If you like it, great. But those that liked it kept accusing others of being 'resistant to change', or 'old dogs'. Kinda crazy considering most of us had to put some effort into changing from Windows or OSX to Linux. If we were resistant to change, why didn't we stick with the old OS?

I tried Unity on Ubuntu. It might be nice for a tablet, but it sure didn't work for me for the way I use my computer. Fortunately, it's pretty easy to install a new interface on Ubuntu and use that, so I switched to Xubuntu (which required another change), which allowed me to configure it (that is, changing from the default), and got it tweaked just the way I like. Whenever I come across some utility that will help me work/play better, I also make that change.

That's a lot of change for someone who is described as 'resistant to change'.

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Old 05-22-2013, 03:28 PM   #23
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I disagree. Most people embrace positive change. But change for change's sake, or change that does not markedly improve the experience? Why bother to relearn anything for no benefit? People legitimately gripe about that. Every change took effort for the developers, and can create bugs - it's frustrating when the effort isn't applied to changes/fixes that provide clear benefit. Otherwise, leave well enough alone.
Sure there are "bad" changes, but sometimes it's hard to see that in advance. If you never try anything new, you'll never know. I heard most every reason below during my career, and many of the biggest detractors actually admitted they liked the change once they got used to it.

No "start button" seems to be the leading criticism of Win8 users - that's embracing change?

And there have been several threads here with people complaining about change giving no reason other than they liked the status quo (efiling taxes, Sat USPS delivery, etc.).

But this is a thread about 17" laptops, so apologies to the OP.
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Old 05-22-2013, 04:02 PM   #24
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We have 3 laptops in our family. An HP, Asus, and a Toshiba. For bang for the buck - the Asus wins. For impressive quality - Toshiba wins. The HP will be turned into a give away and be replaced with either another Asus or a Toshiba.

As far as Windows 8 goes - the upgrade they are coming out with in the summer will offer two things and Microsoft will be offering it for free, but only to current Windows 8 owners - it will include the Start Button every one missed and the ability to switch back to the old style format if desired. The big part that the change to Windows 8 was supposed to bring was that computer resources (footprint on memory for the computer to run) were supposed to be freed up quite a bit and offer more bang to your computer and software...
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Old 05-22-2013, 04:39 PM   #25
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I've worked my way through all the brands, and the only brand I would buy, these days, is Lenovo. Everything else suffers from remarkably poor quality, in one way or another.
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Old 05-22-2013, 04:53 PM   #26
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Lenovo is one I have looked at a couple of times the last couple of days. Problem is that I don't see on their site where I can get a faster hard drive with the 17" screen.....and their screens are glossy.....no thanks. Unless I missed something of course. Same problem I always have.....can't make up my mind. Spend less for something that works alright but maybe can't play games....or spend (waste) more for something I want....
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Old 05-22-2013, 05:30 PM   #27
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True, but thank goodness the old dogs come along eventually or we'd still be riding horses and communicating by snail mail/rotary phone among other old tricks...
I think it is a little more than a few old dogs not liking Windows 8 or it would not be in change mode. I have a whole laundry list of things that are hard to implement after only a week or so (and the lack of a start button is not one of them). I don't see DH's updated Macbook OS needing to resemble or behave like his iPhone or an iPad so I can't believe that was a serious consideration for MS but perhaps an excuse after the fact.
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...

As far as Windows 8 goes - the upgrade they are coming out with in the summer will offer two things and Microsoft will be offering it for free, but only to current Windows 8 owners - it will include the Start Button every one missed and the ability to switch back to the old style format if desired. The big part that the change to Windows 8 was supposed to bring was that computer resources (footprint on memory for the computer to run) were supposed to be freed up quite a bit and offer more bang to your computer and ...
No doubt the Windows 8 OS works better within the computer, but I am really good at understanding how things work and this version is not user friendly. I would switch to a Mac for the first time in forever but I'm not crazy about iTunes. I hope the service pack addresses some of the issues this old dog is having.
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Old 05-22-2013, 08:07 PM   #28
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Sure there are "bad" changes, but sometimes it's hard to see that in advance. If you never try anything new, you'll never know. I heard most every reason below during my career, and many of the biggest detractors actually admitted they liked the change once they got used to it.

No "start button" seems to be the leading criticism of Win8 users - that's embracing change? ...
'Cute' graphic, but totally irrelevant. So what if there are (far more than) 50 bad reasons to resist change, that has nothing to do with the fact that often there are valid reasons to resist change. Whether the 'start button' is one of them is a matter of opinion. But I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand, or disparage those who prefer it.

But I have to wonder- is this the same Midpack that posted to this thread? There you seem to disparage even the suggestion of change and you support going with the status quo. I guess your view on change has changed?


Anyhow, back to OP - two things I would look for in a new laptop:

1) Check the Ubuntu/Linux forums to see if there are any conflicts. You never know when you might want to use Linux, which can be installed alongside Windows in most cases, giving one more choices, and some convenient troubleshooting tools.

2) I'd consider buying a machine with a small amount of RAM, as long as the hardware supports a large amount. Third party RAM is usually cheaper than what the manufacturers sell, and they usually fill each slot, so you end up replacing the RAM you paid for if/when you upgrade RAM.

-ERD50
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Old 05-22-2013, 08:47 PM   #29
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Lenovo is one I have looked at a couple of times the last couple of days. Problem is that I don't see on their site where I can get a faster hard drive with the 17" screen.....and their screens are glossy.....no thanks. Unless I missed something of course. Same problem I always have.....can't make up my mind. Spend less for something that works alright but maybe can't play games....or spend (waste) more for something I want....
Lenovo's are nice overall. In fact late last year I bought my son a notebook (15") from Lenovo and then I bought me a Sager (Clevo) from xoticpc.com. I wanted to be able to highly customize my notebook and xoticpc let me do that. I could pick my SSDs and my data drive, could pick my memory, had various screen choices, several video card choices (important for gaming). However, I was willing to spend more for my notebook than for my son's notebook.

The one thing that was nice with the Lenovo (and with Dell) is that you can get on site repair which is a very nice feature. To get the flexibility I wanted I had to give up on the on site repair.
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Old 05-22-2013, 08:49 PM   #30
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The deed has been done. Costco had a Toshiba (new brand for me) for $1199 I went for. 7200rpm hard drive, 12 RAM (one slot empty), GeForce 670M card, close enough for me. Thought about trying to find one with at least partial SS drive....but guess I didn't think I needed it. The next one in 3+ years will. I was driving myself nuts (like I did when moving fromEdward Jones to Vanguard recently)......just needed to make a call......$1200 is more than enough for me to spend. Somewhere between ""need" and "want".
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