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Old 04-26-2015, 06:58 PM   #21
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He is free to express himself and I am free to ignore him. As for what he is doing with his body, I just don't care. I cut Cable TV a few weeks ago and I am not missing anything apparently.
Yep, exactly! What a relief!
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Old 04-26-2015, 07:06 PM   #22
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Not to be pigheaded, but lesbian and gay population is, what, 3 to 5% or the population? Transgender/gender confused/term of the day is ??% Must we all be bombarded with the issues of a tiny minority?

I really wonder how you think that you are being "bombarded" with just one show. And maybe someone watching this will understand a little more if their kid is in the same situation, that they are not merely just choosing to "cut their junk off"

5% is still 15 million Americans.


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Old 04-26-2015, 07:13 PM   #23
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I really wonder how you think that you are being "bombarded" with just one show. And maybe someone watching this will understand a little more if their kid is in the same situation, that they are not merely just choosing to "cut their junk off"

5% is still 15 million Americans.


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Great, and I would never suggest these people be discriminated against, treated poorly, etc. Just live your life and don't tell me how to live mine. The media and certain elements of society seem to have other ideas and I am not buying it.
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Old 04-26-2015, 07:14 PM   #24
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People are fascinated by celebrities. and whatever they do. I'm not, but a whole lot of people are. And there is a whole lot of money in it. Not only is Ms. Jenner a celebrity, but the whole family is composed of celebrities. Of course this is going to be a big deal.

If a person doesn't want to be exposed to the celebrity culture, you've got a problem because it is everywhere.
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Old 04-26-2015, 07:16 PM   #25
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If a person doesn't want to be exposed to the celebrity culture, you've got a problem because it is everywhere.
Between whacking cable, self-censoring what I click online, and switching to satellite radio, I generally do not have that problem.
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Old 04-26-2015, 07:17 PM   #26
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Great, and I would never suggest these people be discriminated against, treated poorly, etc. Just live your life and don't tell me how to live mine. The media and certain elements of society seem to have other ideas and I am not buying it.
+1
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Old 04-26-2015, 07:20 PM   #27
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Between whacking cable, self-censoring what I click online, and switching to satellite radio, I generally do not have that problem.
We can control those things. The place I hate the most is the checkout at the grocery store and those awful magazines. And the local news pushing their own programs. and so on. On the other hand, I don't want to cut off so much that I'm in a bubble and totally out of touch with society.
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Old 04-26-2015, 07:24 PM   #28
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Great, and I would never suggest these people be discriminated against, treated poorly, etc. Just live your life and don't tell me how to live mine. The media and certain elements of society seem to have other ideas and I am not buying it.

I agree heartily with those sentiments but I don't see anyone in this area telling anyone how to live their lives. Who do you see?


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Old 04-26-2015, 07:28 PM   #29
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I agree heartily with those sentiments but I don't see anyone in this area telling anyone how to live their lives. Who do you see?


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Everywhere I turn. Facebook, major networks, anything from the gubmint, etc. It requires mental energy just to ensure I have cleared my mind and my judgments are really mine. I find being miles into the woods helps.
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Old 04-26-2015, 07:40 PM   #30
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One of my BILs falls into that category also. He's as strange as Jenner. Did not see the show but a friend mentioned it today and he said that he got the impression that Bruce felt that he was always a girl but is sexually attracted to women. Does that make him/her a lesbian?

Like I said, strange.
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Old 04-26-2015, 07:47 PM   #31
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Not to be pigheaded, but lesbian and gay population is, what, 3 to 5% or the population? Transgender/gender confused/term of the day is ??% Must we all be bombarded with the issues of a tiny minority?
Why does the number matter?

Nobody is being harmed by Jenner. Some folks in the general population feeling "uncomfortable" is the de minimus price paid for progress to occur.
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Old 04-26-2015, 07:52 PM   #32
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I thought it was a good interview. There is a transgender person in my family so I've learned a lot about the subject and am probably more accepting and comfortable with it than most. Nobody would choose to have this life. It's hard. Especially for a celebrity like Jenner. The media was not going to let this go, so I imagine that's why he (since he was still presenting as Bruce I guess "he" is still acceptable, but it sounds like next time it will be "she") wanted to get his story out there, and Sawyer let him tell it. My family member would rather just live his life and be accepted for who he is, and has not and probably would not do any interviews, as far as I know.

It's a real story. When transgenders are no longer getting beaten up for being trans, and do not have to fear for their jobs just for being trans, it won't be news anymore. Silence, and sticking your head in the sand or up your ass is not going to fix these problems. It may not seem like that much of an issue until someone close to you has to deal with it. Then the jokes aren't funny, and the ignorance is disturbing.
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Old 04-26-2015, 07:56 PM   #33
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Some of us certainly feel that such things as the Jenner interview do not amount to "progress." And I myself do feel bombarded by the politically correct direction of today's society. To dissent from feeling this is "progress" is considered hate speech and severely censored by many.
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Old 04-26-2015, 07:57 PM   #34
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I thought it was a good interview. There is a transgender person in my family so I've learned a lot about the subject and am probably more accepting and comfortable with it than most. Nobody would choose to have this life. It's hard. Especially for a celebrity like Jenner. The media was not going to let this go, so I imagine that's why he (since he was still presenting by Bruce I guess "he" is still acceptable, but it sounds like next time it will be "she") wanted to get his story out there, and Sawyer let him tell it. My family member would rather just life his life and be accepted for who he is, and has not and probably would not do any interviews, as far as I know.

It's a real story. When transgenders are no longer getting beaten up for being trans, and do not have to fear for their jobs just for being trans, it won't be news anymore. Silence, and sticking your head in the sand or up your ass is not going to fix these problems. It may not seem like that much of an issue until someone close to you has to deal with it. Then the jokes aren't funny, and the ignorance is disturbing.
Exactly.
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Old 04-26-2015, 08:06 PM   #35
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I don't agree with those here who say it's strange. It's pretty simple - your psychological and your physical gender identity are separate things, and don't always match.
The human mind is a fascinating realm. Few truly understand how so many things can impact you in so many ways. Just one tiny incident in one's youth can have profound impacts for the rest of your life, for one example.

To say that "I feel _________" and instantly pronounce that person 'correct' or 'empowered' and is in no way POSSIBLY (not guaranteed, but possibly) influenced by a variety of influences on the human psyche past or present is no different than someone who is an alcoholic saying 'I feel like having a drink' and saying "Well, that man says he wants a glass of vodka, who are you to deny him that?" Maybe they are wired to be an alcoholic, or maybe there were factors that are driving him to seek refuge in alcohol that could otherwise be offset or negated?

If you assume that anything and everything one feels is 'natural' or somehow 'how one MUST be wired' and can't possibly be effected by anything in one's past is quite frightening, really.....as it then nullifies a number of environmental-induced behaviors and psychological tendencies.

Are some people born with a variety of behaviors and feelings and inclinations? Of course.

Are some people influenced to act out a certain way because of things that have happened to them in the past? Of course.

But there appears to be no room for the latter, as they are being pushed to be grouped to the former.

It's actually quite a fascinating dilemma: on the one hand, some people say that evolution is everything, and life is solely determined by your genetic make-up. However, then how do you explain someone who "feels" like they are a sexual identity that is different from what their genes say they "should" be? Do we go by their genetic code/evolution, or does their psyche somehow over-rule their genetic code? In which case, then what is one's psyche in relation to evolution - is it their "soul"? Something that over-rules evolution and the genetic code?

So if the psyche can be independent from their evolutionary genetic code...then are you saying that we aren't, then, bound by our genetic code and DNA to have certain inclinations - which is why some people "feel" like they are a different gender?

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I really wonder how you think that you are being "bombarded" with just one show. And maybe someone watching this will understand a little more if their kid is in the same situation, that they are not merely just choosing to "cut their junk off"
California passed state-wide legislation to permit any school child to enter any bathroom they "feel like" they belong in.

California law allows transgender students to pick bathrooms, sports teams they identify with - CBS News

Kindergarten through 12th grade. KINDERGARTEN! Ask a 4 year old what a boy or girl is, and they will probably look at you with a perplexed look on their face.

And what is the definition of a transgender, who is allowed to pick whatever bathroom they wish to use, and play on any team they wish to play on, and use any locker room they wish to use?

Why, it's whatever one particular student "feels like identifying with" at any given point in time.

No, this isn't bombardment at all. Nothing wrong with letting anyone use any locker room or bathroom they want.
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Old 04-26-2015, 08:10 PM   #36
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Some of us certainly feel that such things as the Jenner interview do not amount to "progress." And I myself do feel bombarded by the politically correct direction of today's society. To dissent from feeling this is "progress" is considered hate speech and severely censored by many.
Ding, ding, ding, we have a winnah!!!

I also really do NOT want to explain any of this to my 8YO. Remember when Clinton got busted for cheating on his wife while in office and lots of parents found themselves explaining what oral sex was to their kids? Yeah, that.
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Old 04-26-2015, 08:13 PM   #37
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Agree 100%. Guess in my old age I've become a real liberal on social issues.

Funny that "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" is considered a liberal point-of-view...

Sorry, Porky... 😜

I'm pretty happy that I've never had any doubts about my gender or my sexual preference. That would be a real hassle...
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Old 04-26-2015, 08:41 PM   #38
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This is an interesting thread - and it's informative to see the different viewpoints expressed. I don't have a problem with transgender folk, and I think that if the issue were discussed more openly, over time, it would become much less of an issue for everyone, and we could all just get on with our lives. I don't think any LGBT folk should keep it to themselves. However, that's just my opinion and it's obvious that not everyone shares it.

I think I prefer this forum when we're discussing withdrawal rates and accumulation strategies though

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I'm pretty happy that I've never had any doubts about my gender or my sexual preference. That would be a real hassle...
I've often said that being straight, white, male and heterosexual has meant that I have never known what it is like to live with discrimination - when just "being me" would automatically put me at odds with the social norms that have been written by the majority of folk in our society.
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Old 04-26-2015, 08:49 PM   #39
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No-one is forcing anyone to watch TV, read newspapers or magazines. There are dozens or hundreds of channels, depending on your cable package. Complaining about it being forced on you because you can't bothered to change the channel seems to be... I'm at a loss for polite words.
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Old 04-26-2015, 08:54 PM   #40
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....I think I prefer this forum when we're discussing withdrawal rates and accumulation strategies though .
+1. I prefer threads that have something in common with early retirement.
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