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Old 04-28-2015, 07:35 PM   #101
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A factoid: According to the American College of Pediatricians, 80-98% of Gender Identity Disorder cases in children resolve themselves once the normal hormones of puberty kick in. That's a good reason to be extremely cautious about taking early steps to do any gender reassignment (incl hormone replacement, etc) early on. Some people want to take steps earlier, as soon as the child shows signs of gender ambiguity, but it seems that in the vast majority of cases it would be best to see if things work themselves out.

A tougher question is how far to encourage/facilitate the non-physical aspects of a child who says he/she want to be the opposite gender. If things will "work themselves out" 80-98% of the time, do we do harm by encouraging Jimmy to call himself Janie and dress as a she? Are we oppressive bigots if we encourage him to stay Jimmy?
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Old 04-28-2015, 07:50 PM   #102
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I'm very appalled at some of the responses here.

Bruce Jenner and other famous people who have come out as LGBT in the past decade have given an enormous amount of courage and confidence to closeted individuals to come out of the closet.

LGBT individuals do not chose to be gay. If any of you know any gay family members or friends or what it means to be gay, they will be the first to tell you they never chose to be gay. If you think people choose to be gay, lesbian or transgender, you should ask yourself when you chose to be straight (assuming you are straight). I am guessing you can't pinpoint a time when you made that choice. The "answer" is the same for gays - they never made a choice, they just always were attracted to the same sex.

I understand how people coming out can seem as if they are seeking attention or shoving it down your throat. With a worldwide population of 7 billion people, 5% of that is estimated to be gay, and many of them in countries where it is illegal to be such, when individuals never made any choice over being gay! This is why depression, anxiety, suicide rates and drug abuse is so common amongst teenage/young adult LGBT and is not something to be taken lightly.

Bruce Jenner, Tim Cook, Michael Sam, and other countless people that have come out lately WILL NOT be news eventually because it shouldn't be. They're just being themselves. It would be like Michael Jordan taking up a 2 hour special on TV to announce that he is straight. People would be perplexed. But until society reaches comes to this point, these famous people's coming out stories give courage to those struggling to come out whatever reason, and the power they have on them should not be undermined.
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Old 04-28-2015, 07:57 PM   #103
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I still don't get why a few people here are so cranky that this interview was on TV. 17 million people watched this. Should they have had that choice taken away because a few people are (a) offended and (b) too lazy to change the channel?

As far as not being willing to talk yo your children about this, I hope that you don't think that keeping them ignorant of what is going on around them is a good preparation for when they leave the cocoon. When they get to the age when they start asking questions about these things, you can either act like parents and answer them, or let your kids learn about this stuff on the internet. It's your choice.
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Old 04-28-2015, 08:07 PM   #104
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A factoid: According to the American College of Pediatricians, 80-98% of Gender Identity Disorder cases in children resolve themselves once the normal hormones of puberty kick in. That's a good reason to be extremely cautious about taking early steps to do any gender reassignment (incl hormone replacement, etc) early on. Some people want to take steps earlier, as soon as the child shows signs of gender ambiguity, but it seems that in the vast majority of cases it would be best to see if things work themselves out.

A tougher question is how far to encourage/facilitate the non-physical aspects of a child who says he/she want to be the opposite gender. If things will "work themselves out" 80-98% of the time, do we do harm by encouraging Jimmy to call himself Janie and dress as a she? Are we oppressive bigots if we encourage him to stay Jimmy?

I can't imagine hormonal therapy, or worse, drastic, irreversible surgery, being a good idea for children, or even teens, as their bodies are still growing. Best to give appropriate psychological support, whatever that is...
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Old 04-28-2015, 09:18 PM   #105
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Not sure this was mentioned or not;

If being gay is something you are born with, then how does that explain identical twins where one is gay and the other is straight?

Here is a partial on an article I found here;
Eight Major Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality Is Not Genetic | RedFlagNews.com

I don't purport that this article has any validity, just what I ran across when I wondered about identical twins and googled the topic.

Quote:
Eight major studies of identical twins in Australia, the U.S., and Scandinavia during the last two decades all arrive at the same conclusion: gays were not born that way.
“At best genetics is a minor factor,” says Dr. Neil Whitehead, PhD. Whitehead worked for the New Zealand government as a scientific researcher for 24 years, then spent four years working for the United Nations and International Atomic Energy Agency. Most recently, he serves as a consultant to Japanese universities about the effects of radiation exposure. His PhD is in biochemistry and statistics.
Identical twins have the same genes or DNA. They are nurtured in equal prenatal conditions. If homosexuality is caused by genetics or prenatal conditions and one twin is gay, the co-twin should also be gay.
“Because they have identical DNA, it ought to be 100%,” Dr. Whitehead notes. But the studies reveal something else. “If an identical twin has same-sex attraction the chances the co-twin has it are only about 11% for men and 14% for women.”
Because identical twins are always genetically identical, homosexuality cannot be genetically dictated. “No-one is born gay,” he notes. “The predominant things that create homosexuality in one identical twin and not in the other have to be post-birth factors.”
The predominant things that create homosexuality in one identical twin and not in the other have to be post-birth factors.
Personally, I don't think it matters one way or the other if a gay person wants to come out or not, but when someone tries to deny that it's a choice, well that may not be true.
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Old 04-28-2015, 10:02 PM   #106
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Not sure this was mentioned or not;

If being gay is something you are born with, then how does that explain identical twins where one is gay and the other is straight?

Here is a partial on an article I found here;
Eight Major Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality Is Not Genetic | RedFlagNews.com

I don't purport that this article has any validity, just what I ran across when I wondered about identical twins and googled the topic.



Personally, I don't think it matters one way or the other if a gay person wants to come out or not, but when someone tries to deny that it's a choice, well that may not be true.
redflagnews is a fake news site. Google "redflagnews fake". This thread is ostensibly about Bruce Jenner who came out as transgender, not as gay. I don't understand why you are posting something about sexual orientation at all, much less something from a fake news site.

Here's a real science site: Largest study of gay brothers homes in on 'gay genes' - life - 17 November 2014 - New Scientist

Reputable twin studies have indicated that genetics is a component in sexual orientation. Here's one study from NIH:
Homosexual orientation in twins: a report on 61 pairs and three triplet sets. - PubMed - NCBI

Multiple peer-reviewed studies have shown that a gay man with a twin brother is far more likely to have a gay twin brother if the twin is an identical twin. If it's a fraternal twin, the likelihood that the twin brother is gay is the same as for any other brother the gay twin may have (which is still higher than the general population).

There is ample evidence that sexual orientation has a biological basis. Biological does not necessarily mean entirely genetic, but can be partially genetic. There is far more evidence that non-standard sexual orientation (i.e. being gay) has a partial genetic basis than presently exists for non-standard handedness (i.e. being left-handed). BTW, some studies have shown that lesbians and gay men are disproportionately left-handed.

The most convincing hypothesis that I have read about what determines sexual orientation, is that it results from a combination of genetics and hormonal activity in the womb. It is known, for example, that in animals which normally have multiple births such as rats, that sexual behavior in the offspring can be predicted by the location in the womb.

I have never met a single gay man who chose to be gay. I certainly didn't choose. It's who I am. For that matter, I haven't met a single straight man who chose to be straight.

I'm sick and tired of being used as a punching bag by politicians, by the willfully ignorant, by people who use their religion to justify their bigotry, and by fake news sites.
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Old 04-28-2015, 10:08 PM   #107
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Not sure

Personally, I don't think it matters one way or the other if a gay person wants to come out or not, but when someone tries to deny that it's a choice, well that may not be true.
Regardless of all that, Bruce Jenner is not gay
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Old 04-28-2015, 10:20 PM   #108
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I'm very appalled at some of the responses here. ...


I understand how people coming out can seem as if they are seeking attention or shoving it down your throat...
Very unfortunate choice of words.
(But, I do agree with your full post).
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Old 04-28-2015, 11:24 PM   #109
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Interesting replies. Mixed thoughts on this one coming from the perspective as a gay man in his early 30s. I know what it's like to fear being who you truly are, both to family and out in public. Also met someone who was a woman and transitioned into a man. The cost of those surgeries and hormone injections definitely add up. I'd imagine the typical person who gets it done will not retire early.

Stories that are sensational or controversial in nature drive viewers which in create more advertising revenue. There are also individuals, minority or not who are looking for role models as they go through this transition process.

Personally I turn the tv on as little as necessary. I'd rather be learning about something that pertains specifically to me, working out or consuming information through social media. TV viewership overall is on the decline.

The national spotlight is on Bruce / Belinda right now. In a couple of days / weeks it will be someone or something else.
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Old 04-29-2015, 06:53 AM   #110
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Personally, I don't think it matters one way or the other if a gay person wants to come out or not, but when someone tries to deny that it's a choice, well that may not be true.
This sentiment feels to me like a desperate attempt to justify limits on gay rights. "If they choose to be different let them accept the consequences of their choices." Given the animus that has attended homosexuality (let alone transgender) over the millennia how can you believe people are just deciding to choose an orientation that (certainly until recently) would insure that they are harassed and discriminated against? Ludicrous. If you are straight, was that a choice? Did you periodically feel an attraction to same sex partners but decide, "no, I think I will stick to opposite sex" like choosing a Merlot over a Cabernet?
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Old 04-29-2015, 07:00 AM   #111
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Regardless of all that, Bruce Jenner is not gay
Now I'm confused. While he was born a man he says he is a woman and likes girls. So is he heterosexual or lesbian?
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Old 04-29-2015, 07:02 AM   #112
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Great, and I would never suggest these people be discriminated against, treated poorly, etc. Just live your life and don't tell me how to live mine. The media and certain elements of society seem to have other ideas and I am not buying it.
i don't believe Bruce Jenner or Diane Sawer told you how to live your life.
Did they instruct watchers that they should be Transgender?
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Old 04-29-2015, 10:43 AM   #113
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This thread has run its course. Thanks, all, for an interesting discussion.

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