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Old 12-19-2007, 01:12 PM   #1
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35mpg

For those of us with Toyota Echo's and the newer Yaris 35mpg would be considered a gas guzzler
Toyota Echo Fans Community :: Index
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Old 12-19-2007, 04:06 PM   #2
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Our '02 Echo has 125,000 miles on it now, and still gets 40-44 MPG. I think the Yaris' mileage isn't as good.

That's why it's a little frustrating to hear that any laws requiring improvement to 35 MPG have a lead time of 13 years.
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Old 12-19-2007, 04:34 PM   #3
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I have a big ass 04 Ford Mondeo Estate (like that one but blue) but still average 45 MPG thanks to the fuel efficient turbo diesel engine (TDDI). The little cars with diesels over here average in the 60's.

Not sure why they don't market diesels in the States. They don't cough black smoke like the days of old and are very refined and quiet.
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Old 12-19-2007, 05:49 PM   #4
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..............Not sure why they don't market diesels in the States. They don't cough black smoke like the days of old and are very refined and quiet.
Diesel engines cost more and Americans don't see the long term cost benefit. Plus, we made some really crappy diesel cars in the late 70's and there is still a bias lingering.
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Old 12-20-2007, 02:56 AM   #5
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Go here and mouse over the different models to get an idea of the kind of fuel economy of just the Renault vehicles alone.

Renault UK - Car Range

How can one not see the cost benefit in 64 MPG?
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Old 12-20-2007, 05:12 AM   #6
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It's my understanding that these engines don't meet the US EPA requirements.
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Old 12-20-2007, 06:07 AM   #7
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My opinion only

They should have to 2009 to produce whatever they are going to sell in the USA to get 35 miles per gallon or better or they could not sell it in this country. If you don't put feet to the fire they will not respond.
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Old 12-20-2007, 08:53 AM   #8
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It's my understanding that these engines don't meet the US EPA requirements.
And from my understanding if they are reworked to meet US EPA, the gas mileage drops substantially........
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Old 12-20-2007, 08:55 AM   #9
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Go here and mouse over the different models to get an idea of the kind of fuel economy of just the Renault vehicles alone.

How can one not see the cost benefit in 64 MPG?
People can, but US folks remember the Car of the Year Renault Alliance...........and the memories are painful..........
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Old 12-20-2007, 09:35 AM   #10
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Go here and mouse over the different models to get an idea of the kind of fuel economy of just the Renault vehicles alone.

Renault UK - Car Range

How can one not see the cost benefit in 64 MPG?
Trek, I agree with you. But we are taking about Americans here. The average Joe won't spend extra $ for added efficiency - too nebulous a concept. Many still think gas will return to $1 a gallon.

It is also true that the 2007 particulate standards have cut into fuel economy of diesels.
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Old 12-20-2007, 09:54 AM   #11
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I'm amazed at how many of you are against the higher CAFE standards. You don't have to buy a fuel efficient vehicle if you don't want to! Nothing in the new standards forces you to buy something more efficient. You can still buy your new Hummer that only gets 10 mpg if you want to. It doesn't hurt your purchase possibilities if someone else might want to buy a vehicle that gets 45-50 mpg which is the kind of gas mileage you can now only get as a diesel or hybrid in the US at a much higher price. Wouldn't it be nice if an affordable vehichle (in the $10,000-$14,000 range) that got 45-50 mpg was available to people in the lower income levels (it is not now, with maybe one exception that I can think of...the Toyota Yaris).
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Old 12-20-2007, 10:16 AM   #12
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People can, but US folks remember the Car of the Year Renault Alliance...........and the memories are painful..........
Aw, come on. The convertible was HOT!

I think it was the Le Car that did them in. But how could they go wrong with marketing like this?

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Old 12-20-2007, 11:16 AM   #13
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My Dad and Brother probably represent the attitudes of most Americans when Dad wont buy anything smaller than a Lincoln Continental and Brother swears by his Ford F-350 Dualie.I dont mind that they want to throw away vast sums of money on gas but please quit complaining about the price per gallon.
What they think of my Toyota Echo and my Mazda Miata would not be politically correct to print..
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Old 12-20-2007, 11:22 AM   #14
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My Dad and Brother probably represent the attitudes of most Americans when Dad wont buy anything smaller than a Lincoln Continental and Brother swears by his Ford F-350 Dualie.I dont mind that they want to throw away vast sums of money on gas but please quit complaining about the price per gallon.
What they think of my Toyota Echo and my Mazda Miata would not be politically correct to print..
They probably still believe that they are safer in those big boxes.
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Old 12-20-2007, 11:26 AM   #15
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My Dad and Brother probably represent the attitudes of most Americans when Dad wont buy anything smaller than a Lincoln Continental and Brother swears by his Ford F-350 Dualie.I dont mind that they want to throw away vast sums of money on gas but please quit complaining about the price per gallon.
What they think of my Toyota Echo and my Mazda Miata would not be politically correct to print..
Actually, if you look at statistics for new car sales, you'll find your dad and brother do not represent the attitudes of most Americans in regards to automobiles.
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Old 12-20-2007, 11:32 AM   #16
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I guess gas is still so cheap in the U.S. that most don't mind paying it. I had an F-150 in Florida but it doubled as a work vehicle. Not a chance I'd drive a gas guzzler like that here with gas "only" at a touch over $4 a gallon. Do you think if the price of gas was $7 or $8 a gallon, like in some other parts of Europe, it would get people to look at more fuel efficient vehicles? Even diesels?

Look at these world prices from April.

You think we've got it bad? Gas prices kick world motorists - USATODAY.com
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Old 12-20-2007, 01:09 PM   #17
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.............. Do you think if the price of gas was $7 or $8 a gallon, like in some other parts of Europe, it would get people to look at more fuel efficient vehicles? Even diesels?........................
Ironically, during the Arab oil embargo of the 1970's Americans did flock to small cars. And there was a small move to (the previously mentioned crappy) diesels. So far the increased, inflation adjusted, fuel prices are too small to even get Americans to slow down, let alone move to more efficient cars and trucks.
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Old 12-20-2007, 03:25 PM   #18
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There are interesting loopholes in the European laws. Unless it's changed, for instance, Denmark (Sweden?) has a huge tax on vehicles, like 180%, but "classic" vehicles over 30 years old are exempt. So you'll see old U.S. Muscle Cars from the 60s and 70s over there, because they were probably cost effective. I pity the fuel costs those Vikings pay, though!

P.S. -- often overlooked is that fuel is a relatively small part of the total cost of operating a vehicle. I bet that's true until fuel gets VERY expensive. For example, generally does not make sense to buy a hybrid vehicle in the US, if you run the numbers.
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Old 12-20-2007, 03:28 PM   #19
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PS many of us, if we could tell the honest truth, would probably rather have that 12-cylinder BMW instead of the hybrid diesel tin can, even if we could only drive proportionately less mileage per year

At least more babes would give you a ride when you ran out of gas.

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Old 12-20-2007, 03:33 PM   #20
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I think it was the Le Car that did them in.
Le Car by Renault! Le Dent by Buick!

I saw one of the original teeny Geo Metro's on the road for the first time in years. It was sitting between a couple of F-250's with both of those drivers yapping on the phone.

Guy must have felt a little bit apprehensive.
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